WST -- Ill-conceived.

It comes off more to be as being a response to the exit surveys. I don't have that information, mind you, and this is simply anecdotal, but I know many people who quit CoH over the lack of an end-game. And it is a bit of a fallacy to argue that they know what they are doing, I do concede that.

However, I do question the 'defended to the stubborn teeth', since, that's not coming from 'corporate' in this case, but instead, from some of the customers. Also, we only see the dissent from the side of the customers. It's an unfair statement to blame faceless 'suits', since frankly the information isn't there. Blame the entity as a whole, sure, fine. That's fairly reasonable, especially for a decision from the entity affecting the gameplay.

If it does drive you to quit though, please, fill out the exit survey and state that's why. At least then there's a chance the 'suits' will take notice.

To me, it came off less the hypothetical version of the game, but the current version of the game with WST. Also, I felt the presentation of your typical introvert came off far closer to an avoidant personality.

I can obtain every IO in this game through solo means. That is character advancement post leveling.

I cannot advance my character by solo means in the incarnate system as planned.


This has nothing to do with my post. I think you just like to see yourself type words.


We are talking character advancement. Nothing else. Please keep that in mind when trying to pick apart my posts and failing.

I believe there was a quote from Second Measure about the incarnate system being open to all players and styles. I don't care to rummage for the link. Feel free to find it yourself.


I'm not 'trying' to do anything. You seem to be trying to prevent others from providing feedback about the game.


Did you even read my post?

I quoted the word broken for a reason. Those quotes define how the term is being used. In this instance, broken defines the unfortunate circumstances that surround the required teaming for the incarnate system and character advancement.


Just because you and I can participate in the WSF does not mean I find the system ok and without its flaws.

I lead my own STF this weekend but I do not see how it fair to prevent players from advancing their characters due to their inability to team for a variety of reasons.

I also don't see why ANYONE in this community would care if the developers gave us more options to obtain the incarnate abilities.

the only thing I could find was from Black Scorpion.

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...96#post3439896

Edit to add:

I think the WST is the best thing to happen to this game in a long time. I solo a lot the only time I team is when I do TFs. Now with the WST it is a lot easier to start a TF up because a lot of people want to do them.

"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps

My Characters Deviont Art page Currently-reading Me Skydiving

we don't even have to get into the whole 'introvert/social phobic/whatever' thing, or get into specific percentages.

The game has a substantial number of players who're here for the soloing, for various different reasons. The game is well served by keeping their preferences in mind going forward, since it's built their loyalty over the last 7-ish years by staying very solo friendly.


Taking design cues from 'those other games' isn't a smart move. I'm playing one right now, and the closer CoH moves to that style of play the less motivation I have to come back.

Very well, I misunderstood.

I assumed you weren't interested in waiting to see if your concerns were addressed, largely due to the fact that you said you wanted to slap the next person telling you to wait for the next Issue.

Looking back through the thread, I can indeed see that you said that if your concerns are addressed, you will renew. If you don't mind my asking, if your concerns are addressed further down the line (say, a year), do you think you'd renew? I understand this is a hypothetical and therefore you might not have an answer - that's fine if you're unsure.

"End Game for All: We have always wanted to provide a game that was open to everyone. We want you to feel powerful when you visit our world, and the Incarnate Trials will be inclusive, accessible, and easy to participate in. Not to say that it isn’t some of the most challenging and exciting content we have ever provided, but we want to make it possible for you to participate in easily, without the need to belong to an elitist “raiding guild” and without surrendering your weekends for a small chance at rolling on a random reward. Now that many of you have begun your ascension to Incarnate, we’ll be releasing the Rare and Very Rare tiers of the Alpha Slot in just a few short weeks to help you get a leg up on the launch of Issue 20."

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=249579

Hopefully, the Trials will allow those who solo to participate.

Thank you, didn't look in that long post of his

"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps

My Characters Deviont Art page Currently-reading Me Skydiving

It would depend on whether I was still paying attention to the game or not. I have vague ideas what is going on in WoW despite it being five years since I walked away from it because I have friends that still play the game. I actually do not have friends outside this game that play it, so it's less likely I will be up-to-date on future developments.

Therefore, probably not.
Incidentally, the slap is because people that say "wait for Issue 20" are saying it with the implication that Black Scorpion has stated that Issue 20 will have solo Incarnate options. He has said nothing of the sort, and heavily implied the reverse (that solo options, if coming, shall come after Issue 20).

Issue 20 will offer non-Task Force options to gain Notices of the Well. We have no reason to believe, and a few reasons to disbelieve, that these options will be solo options.

Quite, and agreed. There's no point in playing if you don't enjoy it. I'd suggest giving the grouping a try if you are capable of it, and if lacking the perks of the Rare level shift causes you not to have fun, move on [and certainly, cite the reasons in your exit survey ].

By a similar note, I don't think it's pointed to discuss future content [caveat, I don't consider the alpha slot itself to be content, but instead, Apex, Tin Mage, and Ramiel as content, this difference may not be the same as others] being gated to require [directly or indirectly] the rare alpha slot to perform.

Fine I missed the point, but that doesn't change my stance on the fact that players do not have the right to claim that the system is broken when it affects their play style. To me, nothing is broken with the Incarnate system or the WST system just because a player can't solo to get the components for the higher tier Alpha Slots.

I'm up for more options to the players, if the devs want to give players more options so be it, I have no problem with it. I just have issues when some players say something along the lines of "Oh no the Devs released feature [X] that gives Reward [Z] but I have to do task [Y] to get it, that's so not fair. Give me Reward [Z] without having to do task [Y] I deserve it because I'm a player."

Eiko-chan, my main villain, has the Alpha Struck, Arbiter, Archvillain (my personal favourite badge in the entire game), Apocalyptic, Kitty's Got Claws and Servant of Recluse badges.
Violet Valkyrie, my back-up teamer, has the Temporal Strife badge.

(I don't have a character with the Weapon Master badge, but I have run through Apex on the Test Server.)

I think that's all the top-level Task Forces, so I have given them all a shot. I don't really enjoy doing them.

The point being, though, Black Scorp did specifically address that they are looking at various solo incarnate strategies. At this point in time, what more could you possibly ask of them? They're aware that a portion of the playerbase prefers to not group for what ever reason, and are looking at various ways to include them in them in Incarnate stuffs.

He did so in a wishy-washy manner that really made it clear (to me) that solo Incarnate options were not a development priority and that they would not be coming soon (or even Soon™.)

No, he did it in the typical Dev speak of "it's not done, and talking specifically hasn't been approved by marketing". Either way, you're not likely to get anything more specific on the plans until they've got something more concrete, so again I ask, what exactly is all this sturm and drang about? It's not like you can say they're unaware of your concerns, as that statement from Scorp predates this thread.

I find that communication style unacceptable. I'm not going to just sit around and pay them money if I don't know I'm going to get what I want out of that investment. If marketing won't let them tell me they're working on my concerns when they actually are doing so, then marketing is failing horribly at their job.

Well since they are under a lot of NDAs they probably cannot talk to much what is down the line for various reason this thread shows.


I know for my job and some of my friends jobs we are under strict NDA due to the sensitivity of work we have. They would be the same since they are competing against other companies/games out there that would take something and copy it in their game.....OR it does not get implemented and we feel that we should be entitled to it now.

Welcome to every MMO ever. They simply do not talk in specifics until they have something concrete. Otherwise, people rip them to shreds for "not keeping their word" when a release date slips or they have to change something before a release. It's happened here many times in the past.

That said, our devs don't generally address issues if they're not planning on doing something about them. This is exactly the same kind of language they used when they said they were "looking into" blaster issues in the pre-defiance days. Boils down to do you trust them or not? My experience with them over the last 7 years leads me to trust em.

Agreed.

As we have only been given a very small smattering of information about what is in I20 and that was last year; I can understand *WHY* they arent saying much else about it.

For all we know they could well be just a few days from lifting the NDA on I20, and out comes all of the pertinant information

Note: I have seen in other MMO's where this has happened before, and not just with NCsoft but with other "big names" where little concrete information can be put forward by the developers... and most of the developers actually DO want to tell you about all of the nice stuff that is coming, and also their future plans from that point onwards.

If developers are never willing to talk about their game, then i have worries about it

Fine you don't like the way marketing is controling the release of the information but that's they way they been always doing things in the past and don't see it changing anytime soon. Marketing is doing their job because their trying to make sure that information isn't released that would jeopardize the future of the game.

Lets say that Black Scorpion did say something that confirms end game content will be soloable and did so without marketing wishes. Next thing you know you might have the competition pick up on it and implement the same thing or do something to counter the lose of players that Scorpion's confirmation would bring. In the world of business you don't want to show your entire hand early in the game because you have no way of knowing what the competition is holding in theirs. Also what if the devs couldn't deliver on what Black Scorpion promised. Given from what I can make out from your posts I'm sure you'll be one of first people ready to blame him for broken promises and failing to deliver on what he promised. There's a method to their madness learn to deal with it, except it, ignore it, or whatever makes you happy but you can't get upset for them doing their job.

Oh yes. Companies will go absolutely wild over a developer of a rival game posting "we are currently working on balancing several different potential solo paths towards acquiring these Notices to our satisfaction, and expect to release a solo path to full Incarnate power sometime after Issue 20. The solo path will come, but we are not yet ready to reveal more details on what it shall be, or when it shall be ready."

How can anyone hope to compete without keeping such vital information under wraps?

(NOTE: This is not what Black Scorpion posted. What he posted said "we're going to be looking at solo options, but you've got to understand that an MMO is going to be focused on rewarding team play." This implies "so don't hold your breath waiting for it.")

Cause it could be tied into something larger which could incorporate a huge update to the system or how the game works? Just cause it looks like a little thing, does not mean it ties into a larger or grander picture.

If they are actually working on such an option, there is no justifiable reason they cannot say "we are working on a solo option." That they have chosen not to say this is the issue.

Yes there is a reason for this not to be told. It is called the MARKETING DEPARTMENT. I could tell tonnes of info about what my company is doing moving forward, but do to my NDA and marketing I would be gone very quickly.


I am not sure where you work at. I know where I work at whatever I saw to the public (as my personal facebook account, or twitter, or linkedin), they could be scrutinized by a friend and information is altered to what the need is and issues arise from that.

That is life.

I cannot advance my character by solo means in getting the Epaulets costume item unlocked as planned.

I cannot advance my character by solo means in getting the Transcendent badge as planned.

I cannot advance my character by non-PvP means in getting Shivans or nukes as planned.

I cannot advance my character by non-crafting means in maxing out my salvage slots.

...

It's just another reward, it's just another "play style" people are complaining about, ho hum.

You have yet to tell me how this "advancement" is so special that you expect the devs to drop what they're doing and cater to your weird "play style" when almost everyone else is enjoying the hell out of the game as it is. Please keep that in mind when you post yet again how important this is and failing.

You're free to give as much non-productive feedback as the moderators will allow. I'm just trying to explain to you why it's so hard to take that feedback seriously, and why this perceived injustice is your problem, not the community's, and certainly not the devs'. Once you realize that, then maybe future feedback will get more favorable results.

...As defined by two or three people here, most certainly not a definition shared by the vast majority of players, as evidenced by the volume of WSTs engaged.

And that sums it up nicely. I play and think, "It's not perfect, but it's pretty damn cool!" Apparently you play and think, "It's pretty cool, but ZOMG, the flaws!!!"

One of us is happy...

I don't see anyone here saying that we're against adding more options, just that it's not worth all the rage, ultimatums, and anguish that is being expressed in this thread. If they get around to it, great. If not, oh well, it works fine like it is.

This is why we can't have nice things. :(


Seriously, they told us they're looking into it. They CANNOT say anything more than that until they're sure they've got a workable solution. They can't be sure they've got a workable solution until they've actually implemented it at least mostly and have it tested to some degree or other.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Softcapping an Invuln is fantastic. Softcapping a Willpower is amazing. Softcapping SR is kissing your sister.