WST -- Ill-conceived.

At this moment in time, certainly not. I am, however, pessimistic about the possibility of the Incarnate system, and I've been anticipating the promised "end game" as much as anyone else, hoping and wishing for a system that did not exclude me because I dislike task forces and raids.

So far no MMO has delivered that promise. I actually had honestly believed that City of Heroes would, and am heartbroken that, as best I can see from here, it shall not.

The reason I'm reacting so strongly to this is because of how hopeful I had been. If I had not been given reason to hope, the disappointment would not sting as much as it does. Nothing hurts worse than being let down by something you love.

It's not.

The 1-50 content has not changed at all.

You can go from level 1 to level 50 without ever having been on a team.

The difference between leveling from 1-50 and becoming an Incarnate is that 1-50 is going to happen just by playing the game, while becoming an Incarnate is optional.

Yes, as of right now, teaming is required for becoming an Incarnate. But you do not HAVE to do it.

Your complaint is that it is forced teaming.

Please explain to me how exactly it is "forced" teaming when the content that requires teaming is completely optional. Show me ANYTHING in the game that says you have no choice in whether or not you become an Incarnate.

Is becoming an Incarnate MANDATORY? No, it isn't. I see no point in complaining about "forced" teaming in a part of the game you are not forced to do.

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

I think you're purposely trying to miss the major point: The Devs are spending TIME and MONEY developing content that a subsection of the game does not want. That's TIME and MONEY that won't be spent on developing the regular content WE ENJOY.

If you don't think that's something worth complaining about, then I suggest you move on to another thread that doesn't hurt your delicate sensibilities. Your constant haranguing simply gives me motivation to keep trying to battle your "I like it so STFU!" attitude

Erm, doesn't this basically describe everything the developers do? There's always going to be a larger or smaller subsection of people who aren't interested in a specific piece of content the developers add.

Yes, but if certain members of these boards had simply let the people who were not amused by this turn of events vent and get it out of our systems the whole thing would've blown over already

So many posters have been busy trying to make us feel bad for not wanting the content that it's simply become a battle of wills between ourselves and the "STFU!" crowd. There's is no way that I'll shut up and let them have the illusion that they've 'won'.

Don't want none? Don't make none

Your definition of "optional" baffles me, in that it seems to define a difference between two categories of content I see no clear distinction between in that context. Allow me to ask the following question:

What is "optional" in the Incarnate system that cannot be argued to be optional in the 1-50 game? Specifically, absent a definition of what "just playing the game" constitutes, vs. whatever it is one does to earn Incarnate progress is, which you do not appear to define as part of "just playing the game."

In simple terms: If the Incarnate system is defined as optional, is the 1-50 journey not just as optional? Is logging into the game at all not just as optional? How do we define the difference?

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

It is not, at all, for me, about winning anything.

The reality here is that right now to get a NotW, you have to run a TF. In the next Issue, there will be other ways and that the developers are looking at specifically, ways that solo players can get a NotW, be that in i20 or beyond.

That's it. There is no more to it.

Accept reality and be at peace or fight it and be upset. Each person has a choice.

But, in the end, it's about accepting reality.

And if you think that people who actually like the game and respect the developers are going to let others trash it without voicing their opinions, well, I am not sure how to even address such an outlook.

As an introvert I can say that I love teaming, TFs and everything that has to do with it. The Apex TF is the best piece of content this game has imo.

It is also true, that after a certain point (which can be after a single TF, or a 16 hour gameathon it differs day to day) I've had enough and I really need to do something solo in game, or some other loner activity outside the game (reading or just staring at the ceiling while listening to music usually works) so I can recharge my batteries. Interacting with people, even online, is draining.

In the same vain, I love summer music festivals. 3 days in a tent on a camping site with a group of friends and surrounded by thousands of other people. I love it. For 3 days. Afterwards I usually lock myself away for two days and really appreciate it if people just leave me the heck alone. I did a four day festival once and that really stretched my limits. I don't think I was all that pleasant on the road home.

I don't.

Logging into the game is optional. The upside is that it's fun, the downside is that it costs money. We can be mad at the Devs about this, or we can accept it, make our choice of how to act, and move on.

Leveling from 1-50 is optional. The upside is that is makes our characters more powerful, the downside is that it takes time and concentration. We can be mad at the Devs about this, or we can accept it, make our choice of how to act, and move on.

Getting the first Alpha slot unlocked is optional. The upside is that is makes our characters even more powerful, the downside is that it required completion of a new and often difficult arc. We can be mad at the Devs about this, or we can accept it, make our choice of how to act, and move on.

Getting the Rare and Very Rare Alpha abilities unlocked is optional. The upside is that it makes our characters still more powerful, the downside is that it (presently) requires joining a team. We can be mad at the Devs about this, or we can accept it, make our choice of how to act, and move on.

This is something people need to remember. "Teaming preference" is not a binary thing, either WILL DO or WON'T DO. It's usually a case of "might do, sometimes, for some tasks, with some people if I'm in the mood." I haven't undergone psychological evaluation and I don't know what I'm talking about, so I can't say whether I'm an introvert or an extrovert, but I know that playing with other people - even when it's fun - taxes me, and greatly, meaning I either need to leave the team and do something on my own where no-one will bother me, or otherwise log out of the game and do something else entirely.

Also, for lack of ability to carry over nested quotes, there's something I want to say on the subject of "teaming vs. interacting." At some point along the way, I described worries of teaming becoming nothing more than a means to an end that people engage in not because they want to, but because they feel they have to, leading to communal play, but VERY cold, basic interaction which leaves one feeling even less a part of the community. It's pretty evident when a person teaming with you doesn't really want you on his team, but knows he NEEDS you on the team nevertheless, and will tolerate you through grit teeth out of sheer necessity. That's generally not a good situation.

I've teamed a lot over the years, and I can say one thing for a fact - the level of actual player-to-player interaction, to say nothing of social interaction, is rock bottom for the most part. You exchange some curt communication with the team leader, are placed on the roster, and proceed to solo alongside what may as well be 7 bots, for all the humanity they display. No-one says a word, no-one cares about a word that is said, no-one wants to acknowledge that there are human beings behind the characters on screen. On the subject of bolded MMO, this is not better than solo play in any way. It IS solo play in everything but game mechanics.

In short, being within a certain proximity of other human beings is not the same as socialising with other people. And that's not a fine line, either.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Ok, well, one semantic quibble: You're not being excluded, you're excluding yourself. You no doubt have excellent reasons, but this not asking a quadriplegic to medal in Olympic hurdles, it's asking a dyslexic person to read a book - difficult, possibly not pleasant, but not impossible for them.
That aside...

I have to ask, then, why are you still posting?
From what (little) I've read, you've made your mind up about that game: you're done. In saying "I'm not your customer anymore," you have removed yourself from having your opinion be seriously considered by the Devs, especially when you add "I have no intention of waiting around to see if my concerns are addressed in the future."

If people on the boards questioned your maturity, or insulted you due to this decision, why care? If their opinions are correct, and you're being childish, why be insulted? And if their opinions are wrong, and you're not being childish or stupid, then why give the wrong people the time of day?
More to the point, you're leaving, you're not going to be in contact with these people anymore.

(Before I am misconstrued, I am not telling or asking anyone to leave the game, or to stop posting. I am doing just exactly what the text says: asking why someone who is done with a game, and the people in it, is still interested in expressing their opinion about the game, and expecting anyone to listen to them.)

I am like this sometimes as well... and i wouldnt call myself an introvert. Infact (or at least a few years ago when my life was better off) I was out pretty much every night with friends doing social activities (Roleplaying, gigs, or even just watching movies with them).

But other times I would have to blow them off and tell them that I just didn't feel like going out.

Mostly agreed, but that is a problem with PUGs in general though with 90% of all online games. Very little "social" communication.

On the flip side, from PUGS i have had quite a few nice long and fun conversations a couple of the players there (unlike other MMO's). Although the PUG itself wasnt necessarily fun, I found that some of the people in them *were* fun to be around.

PUG groups are strange beasts anyway to be honest...

Now saying that, when I was teamed up with friends, we probably spent more time team-chatting than we did killing stuff ingame... and we had no global chat at that point in time (American servers had it for quite a few months before us EU players)

Hint: If it wasnt for a PUG, I would have never been invited to join an online station that was starting up EU side (all those years ago), I would have never gotten the circle of friends that I have now ingame and out of game, I would have never helped out at NCsoft events (nor raided their staff party all those years ago).

And that is ALL from one PUG that I joined out of the blue and sucked in team communication skills.

For me, I tend to be chattier or not depending on the toon I'm playing. My tank taxes me to play. I enjoy the challenge, but have to concentrate more, so I tend to be less chatty. On my blaster, however, I am more able to chat as I don't have to worry about everyone else. But it also does depend on the people I'm teaming with. I don't like chatting to myself.

I didn't add that last part. The only time I expressed a sentiment like that was in the face of someone telling me to (essentially) shut up; my response was "You want me to shut up, you pay me; otherwise, I shall exercise my rights as a customer in good standing, thankyouverymuch."

I still love the game. I want it to reform. I want better from it; heck, part of me still expects the devs to cave as quickly as development cycles allow and add in some solo stuff. I still have six months of game time already paid for (well, okay, at this point it's about four-and-a-half). That's about two development cycles of waiting, and I'm not going to pull any stupid human tricks (like disputing a credit card charge that I legitimately made) to make it end sooner.

If I just stop posting, no one - especially not the developers - will know that I still have a problem that needs to be addressed. No one can fix something you won't tell them is broken.

Then I suggest that this thread will never end. Be at peace with that, brother

And, as an afterthought, what does having a complaint and voicing dissatisfaction with a game development decision have to do with "respecting the developers"? Gracious man, blind hero worship isn't healthy for anyone there Chief

However the WST (Weekly Strike Target) isn't broken, currently it's a working as intended feature. Players do the WST, get the WST reward, The Notice of the Well being one of them, and then move on, but I do see the gist of the problem you trying to point out. That in order to get the Notice of the Well reward you have to team up with others, that there is no alternative solo option available to get the Notice of the Well reward. That to advance through the Incarnate system players have to team up, and there is no alternative path other than the one currently present.

The incarnate system is 'broken' in the fact it does not allow players to advance their character without required teaming. This is opposite of the past direction of the game and not how the system was marketed to the player base.

Yes, the devs are spending time and money on something that a subsection of the playerbase doesn't like.

Show me ONE thing the devs have EVER done that was met with universal approval and praise from 100% of the playerbase.

You won't find it to show me. Someone has complained about every single thing the devs have ever done with this game. Pleasing 100% of the people who play it 100% of the time is a complete impossibility.

So YOUR enjoyment is more important than anyone else's. How is that any different from what you're accusing ME of?

With that sentence there, you basically just told me that the devs should not be allowed to spend time and money on something unless it is something that YOU enjoy, and to hell with everyone else.

By accusing me of putting my enjoyment over everyone else's and then making that statement, you have delved into the wonderful world of hypocrisy, enjoy your stay.

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

I hope nobody makes serious decisions based on the MBTI. It's psychometric garbage. (And just for the record, it's actually based on Jung's typology, so referencing Jung rather than the MBTI doesn't really get you all that much closer to "acceptable," given the way Jung is regarded in much of the scientific literature. I believe Jung would probably consider introversion/extraversion a little archetypal, and might be hesitant to claim credit for more than the labels regardless.)

Beyond that, I don't think that all introverts are extreme enough on the trait to be affected in the way you describe. In this thread you've recognized that it's a continuum, yet you still want to treat the 25% number as representing the full effect of the design decision on the player base. You can't have it both ways. You can't have this affect 25% of all players, when you yourself admit that there are degrees of introversion - and I can guarantee that no data exist to support that 25% of human beings are incapable of functioning in a group of 8 in a computer-mediated environment.

Depends on how you define "advance." The "level shift" thing is a reward, nothing more. No matter how much I solo or team, I can't get to level 51. Can you? You keep interpreting the rare and very rare Alpha Slot rewards as something that is needed, but it's not, any more than very rare enhancements are needed to "advance" your character. It's merely something you want, nothing more. Something that is available for you to get, if you're willing to invest a few hours of time into it, just like everyone else. Something that makes many, many people very, very happy.

Like I've said, I've seen these same tired arguments erupt over Shivans, badges, and other such rewards. "I can't [read: don't want to] get these rewards because it doesn't suit my play style!" This is no different. Either do what's required to obtain the reward, or don't and don't get the reward. This game isn't written with the express intention of making Clouded or Eiko-Chan 100% happy to the exclusion of all else; it is written with the general goal of being the most fun for the most people. In that regard, it--and Issue 19 specifically, WST and all--has been wildly successful.

Really? In spite of the fact that we already have rewards in the game that are unobtainable without teaming? I'm not going to say that the devs generally develop content that is unsoloable, but please stop acting like it's completely unprecedented.

Citation, please. I want to see the quote or post where a redname has said that nothing in the game will ever require teaming up with other people, that everything will always be soloable.

It sounds to me like you're taking something someone said in a general sense and extrapolating it as some kind of solid promise of something that will always be true. For example, there's a huge difference between, "We try to make the game solo-friendly," and, "We will never include content that requires teaming up to get a reward." I don't doubt that someone has said the first quote in passing at some point, and the game is very solo-friendly. When you talk about "how the system was marketed to the player base," though, you are implying the second. I want to see that "marketing" that led you astray.

Hmmm, I'm looking at a lot of incarnate preview and interview information, and I just don't see anything indicating that the incarnate system will cater specifically to solo players. In fact, the Official Issue 19 announcement specifically mentions, "Protecting Paragon City™ and the Rogue Isles™ from such overwhelming forces requires the greatest Heroes and Villains (as well as Rogues and Vigilantes) to work together."

The Incarnate system is not "broken" and as far as I can see is working as intended. You unlock the Alpha Slot, gather components to create Alpha Slots, and the Alpha Slots created give your character enhancements, buffs, and what have you. There is nothing that is broken with the Incarnate system.

The only thing some people have is a problem, nothing more and nothing less, just a problem. A problem with the way components for higher tier Alpha Slots are dealt out and how it breaks their style of playing this game. Also this problem only affects people that play solo and do not like to team. It really doesn't have any affect on the game itself, just the play style of those prefer to solo and don't like to team.

I quoted the 25% in reply to a poster saying that we "cannot expect developers to cater to introverted interests". I did not quote it in reference to the game at all, but to the hypothetical version of the game White Hot Flash favours that does not consider introverted interests at all.