Werner

I can tank on Scrappers, so I can tank on Brutes with their higher hit points and caps. And yeah, the fury mechanic gives ME a direct benefit for tanking, not just the team. Even on my total sidekicked lowbie last night, I was charging into the alpha of every group chasing my fury.

20% chance of 10 endurance every 10 seconds = 0.2 * 10 / 10 EPS = 0.2 EPS, with an indication that sometimes it's more. I see mine give me 11 endurance sometimes, but it doesn't seem consistent. Maybe someone knows the pattern. I've heard argued that it's better than regular recovery, because it isn't debuffable. I'd also argue that it's worse than regular recovery, because you can't count on it, and you can get unlucky.

Heh. I'm not designing it for anything except leveling up team tanking, really. I17 came out, and suddenly my friends wanted to play red side, and insisted I come join, and said they needed some aggro control. So Invulnerability or Shield Defense, really. Decided to go with Invulnerability because I just finished leveling a Shielder, and Dark Melee has what Invulnerability needs, so there you go. It was totally thrown together last night. I'm like level 5. Not planning to do anything with it unless I end up loving it.

Oh, they were out there. I believe there was an unspoken rule that once you figured out just how awesome Sword/Dark was, you were one of a special club, and you didn't TALK about it. A rule I violated, of course, being the braggart that I am. Also I wasn't the first of the "new generation" of Sword/Dark, if you can call it that. Several other people had theirs all soft-capped and running before I put mine together, even if my planned build had been floating around for a while, I think.

And I'd been after the concept for a long time, probably a couple years. I'd put together soft-capped Katana/Dark build in Mids' many issues ago, and brought it up on the forum for discussion. It was somewhat more compromised than what I ended up with since there have been so many juicy sets added since then, but it was doable. It was something I wanted. I just didn't get around to it until more recently, and by then, soft-capping Katana/Dark was getting pretty practical, not just something an extremist would play.

I have to agree - if you aren't afraid of inspiration use, and know how to grab a bunch of defense from pools, and know where to strategically spends small sums of influence on bonuses, it can be a VERY solid leveler. Some other secondaries may level more easily, or with less trouble, but I really don't think Shield Defense is weak while leveling the way some people seem to. I wouldn't really recommend it as a leveling build to people without some experience though - you have to manage your endurance, build properly, plan for specific levels of defense, know when to use what inspirations, and so on. It's not rocket science, but it also isn't obvious for a new player.

So there's one way in which a number of sets are better than shields - they are more friendly to inexperienced people. Willpower, for instance. Set it, forget it, don't worry about endurance, and it just keeps you alive. And some Willpower builds can be somewhat more survivable than Shields in most situations. There's just that pesky concept of "enough survivability" getting in the way, because once you have enough survivability, it's generally better to focus on offense, and Willpower does not...

Or you could play a Blaster. This line of reasoning breaks down at some point. But I DO agree with you here. Shield Defense has enough survivability, and more damage output. You take other secondaries for flavor, not because they're better at the main job of a Scrapper - defeating enemies.

It's EASIER to get that level of survivability out of Super Reflexes. So that IS an advantage. But IO'd to the teeth, Shield Defense seems to have slightly better survivability, plus a lot better damage.

Yes to the first, no to the second. Invulnerability is going to own this sort of competition if you can pick your AVs, which of course you must. Soft-capped invulnerability in its element (non-defense debuffing smashing/lethal AVs), is as strong as it gets.

However, that's an extreme edge case designed to cater to Invunerability's advantages. For general survival against random spawns, Invulnerability will be better than Shields against some, worse against others. I don't think there's a clear advantage to either.

Anyway, if we're trying to convince new players to play something other than Shields, it's maybe not an argument they'll respect, but have you SEEN how many combinations we're playing on the Scrapper forum? The hard core min/maxers, the powergamers, we're all over the place. We're not just playing Shield Defense.

LOL. Sounds like me. As I believe you said once, when the zombie apocalypse comes, I won't be able to run very fast, but I'll be able to carry a lot of ammunition.

There's an advantage to Willpower. It has "go make a sandwich the moment the idea strikes you" survivability. +4x8, RWZ challenge spawn, whatever. Go AFK. With a good build, it'll still be standing when you get back. Everything I have has to WORK for that kind of survivability, and so does Shield Defense. I suppose that's more along the line of what I said earlier, though. Some sets are friendlier for less experienced players. It's not like you go AFK during a fight normally. It's just a way of saying that your survival will not be compromised by less experienced play.

Hmmm, maybe what I'm saying is that Willpower is the best alternative to Shield Defense for anyone who would be posing the question in the first place. For damage, pick Shield Defense. For easy survivability and leveling, pick Willpower?

I do think the other sets have a lot to offer as well, but I find myself unable to really articulate it at the moment. How about "fun"? Like I think Regeneration and Dark Armor are a lot of fun. Yeah, that won't convince anyone, I know.

Yes. Once upon a time, it was bugged and you could slot it more than once, even though it said unique. It's been actually unique for quite a while now. If you were referring to my comment, there was an "or" between the list of powers I suggested slotting it in.

I haven't run any numbers yet, but I'd guess there's a concept of "enough" or as you say "all the AoE you need". If you have "all the AoE you need", why pick more AoEs? If you can move from spawn to spawn, nuking each and moving on, you have "enough" AoE. More AoE attacks won't help you.

Not sure if Fire's quite there, but I'm guessing that on a high recharge Fire/Shield, you'd Shield Charge -> Fire Ball, move to next spawn, Fire Sword Circle -> Fire Ball, move to next spawn, repeat. Not so sure that second spawn will be dead, though.

Let's see. On my in-progess build, let's set AAO to five enemies. Fire Ball is a sad little 214 damage, and Fire Sword Circle is 361. Well, any minions in 10 feet will be dead, but lieutenants will still be standing, as will minions outside of 10 feet. So in my case, by my definition, I don't have enough AoE.

Well, except that I can probably Build Up every other spawn. Fire Ball climbs to 294 and Fire Sword Circle to 487. Still not quite enough to kill lieutenants in 10 feet. I can also crank up the numbers. How about eight in range of AAO? Fire Ball at 310, Fire Sword Circle at 514. There we go. So lieutenants and minions in ten feet dead, but anything outside of ten feet still alive. So still, by my definition, I don't have enough AoE.

And is Shield Charge -> Fire Ball OK without Build Up? Shield Charge is 415, and Fire Ball is back down at 214, so no, it's not enough. Lieutenants will still be standing.

So if I want to Nuke with just two attacks, I'm using Build Up -> Shield Charge -> Fire Ball on group one. That leaves me with just Fire Sword Circle and Fire Ball, not built up, for the next group. That means survivors. Eh, I can use three attacks. First spawn gets Shield Charge -> Fire Ball -> Fire Sword Circle. Ignore any survivors. Next Spawn gets Build Up -> Fire Ball -> Fire Sword Circle. Ignore any survivors.

Now in practice, I have an aggro aura, so if the spawns are tightly packed, I'll hop to the next spawn, and probably nuke everyone once the survivors catch up. Might not be too much slower than Electric, even if Electric has fewer survivors moving from spawn to spawn.

Actually, there's reason to think it just isn't slower than Electric. There was little difference between the top Electric/Shield and Fire/Shield numbers on a farming influence per hour thread. They were neck and neck, if I recall. So I suppose that's a sense in which Fire/Shield has enough AoE.

Well, I'd LIKE to, but I haven't worked out how to make a post-BotZ soft-capped build chaining Incinerate -> Greater Fire Sword -> Cremate -> Fire Sword Circle -> Fire Ball with sustainable endurance, good set bonuses in general, and Aid Self.

Yeah, yeah, I know, I could drop Fire Ball in favor of Conserve Power, Physical Perfection and Energy Torrent, and pick up Aid Self instead of Health/Stamina. It would totally work, and be more survivable, and a LOT more survivable with no inspirations. I know, I know.

But Fire Ball! I mean, c'mon. You can't make me skip Fire Ball. That would make the baby Jesus cry.

So dropping Aid Self seemed like the only sensible move.

Greater Fire Sword is a great attack, and Incinerate is even better, so yes, it's worth asking why I skipped them. In my case, I used frankenslotting to get a near gapless chain out of my first three attacks, and then spent almost the rest of the build trying to stay alive while tanking for a group.

Most people would probably be better off going ahead and taking both Greater Fire Sword and Incinerate, and possibly dropping one of the earlier attacks during the end game some time. Doing damage is generally more fun. My damage output wasn't BAD, mind you. It just wasn't what it could have been had I been less focused on survival.

Oh, and Scorch IS a better attack than it may look at first. Not the best in your arsenal, but decent.

I'll have to look at the build later. Stuff to do!

The chance of build up in Blinding Feint isn't doing a whole lot of good. You could replace it with an endurance reducer. I'd drop the damage from Ablating Strike in favor of a damage/endurance. Those two changes will have only a minor effect on your DPS, but will lower your endurance consumption to 4.01 EPS from 4.82 EPS. That's a huge difference.

Let's see, so then your burn is 4.86 EPS. Recovery 4.03 EPS, so net loss of 0.83 EPS. Accounting for Hasten and Practiced Brawler this time, you COULD get hit with two Practiced Brawlers and the Hasten crash while you're waiting for the Conserve Power recharge, which is a total of 7.3 + 7.3 + 15 = 29.6 endurance. Subtract that from your 110, and you have 80.4 endurance to play with, going away at 0.83 EPS, so about 96 seconds. That's long enough, but it does count on average consumption from Performance Shifter, so it's still a little iffy. If those don't fire, you'll burn 1.23 EPS, so 80.4 / 1.23 = 65 seconds. Very close. Most of the time you'll be fine, particularly if you don't hit Practiced Brawler the moment it recharges.

Do you recover enough while Conserve Power is up? 2.18 EPS from chain, 0.49 from toggles, 2.67 used, 4.03 recovery, so 1.36 EPS recovery, for 90 seconds, that's 122 endurance. So yes, you get a full recovery while it's up, assuming you're not unlucky with Performance Shifter. If it doesn't fire, it's 0.96 recovery for 90 seconds, or 86.4 endurance. Which isn't really enough in a worst case scenario, but probably would be most of the time.

But the AVERAGE recovery looks like it's plenty, so most of the time, everything should be fine. You probably need to get pretty unlucky to burn out. I'd feel safe with the Performance Shifter "risk" if it were my build.

Short answer, no.

Even with the 0.2-second gaps due to insufficient recharge, you're still burning 4.82 EPS for the attack chain + 0.85 EPS for toggles, so 5.67 EPS. You're only recovering 4.03 EPS. So your net burn while Conserve Power is down is 1.64 EPS, and that's before we count Hasten or Practiced Brawler. That'll burn your endurance out in 67 seconds. Conserve Power isn't recharging fast enough to keep up.

When Conserve Power is up, you're burning 2.63 EPS on the chain and 0.49 EPS for toggles, for a total of 3.12 EPS. With your 4.03 EPS recovery, you get back 0.91 EPS, again ignoring Hasten and Practiced Brawler. Over 90 seconds, that only recovers 81.9 endurance, so it doesn't get you back to full.

Even if it were enough, even if it was enough with Hasten and Practiced Brawler thrown in, it's still risky. I'm including the Performance Shifters, and you burn endurance fast enough that them firing or not firing could make a significant difference.

So you'll be wanting better recovery, less burn, and/or faster recharge on Conserve Power.

Initial feedback would be a recommendation to not describe your build as "great" when asking for feedback.

Anyway, it doesn't totally suck, but it's fairly mediocre. Unless this is a concept build, the biggest mistake you've made is thinking that the way to enhance the survivability of a Regen scrapper is to add regeneration. It isn't. What you want is recharge, recharge, more recharge, and then defense. You picked up 25% recharge and Hasten. It's a start.

On the offense side, I wouldn't have skipped Whirling Sword. OK, that's not accurate. I would have skipped it, because I like single-target specialists, but the name of the game on the whole is AoE. Eh, at least you have Slice. I'd have picked Whirling Sword over Slice, though, but that's probably a matter of debate.

One of your big go-to sets is Doctored Wounds, particularly for Dull Pain and Reconstruction.

Eh, I'm sure Umbral will be along for a more detailed response. "Recharge and defense instead of regeneration" will massively change the build anyway, so further comment may be immaterial until we see build two.

Mine just hit 50 yesterday! Yay!

Now to figure out what I want to do with the guy.

While the game doesn't give rewards for it, I've always felt pretty rewarded by damage mitigation. Just not quite enough to find a Tank satisfying. Think I'll go the opposite direction on my Fire/Shield, though. I've made too many survival machines. Time to put out some serious damage.

It doesn't take a lot of expensive sets to make decent. It only takes a lot of expensive sets to make AMAZING.

Yeah, even as a hard core number cruncher, I'd never go that far. Numbers may be facts, but IN-GAME is where the rubber meets the road. You can't claim you won a race by pointing out that your car has the highest horsepower and the most grip. You have to actually get out there and race. Numbers can only take you so far.

As an example, the best answer I could get to the question "Is my endurance sustainable?" on my Katana/Dark from Mids' and spreadsheets was "maybe". There were just too many variables for me to be certain. I had to actually build it and play it to find out. The real answer is "most of the time, but not always".

For the most part, though, yes, my Mids', spreadsheet and in-game experience pretty much match note-for-note.