Mercury_Down
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:Regen brutes will be hard to kill but they won't have access to hiber so they'll get killed more often than a regen scrap with hiber. Being limited to phase means they'll get chased in if the opponent has phase and will only buy them a few seconds of extra survivability. Still, the added hitpoints + regen will help a little bit.Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
After i21 I'd give a DM/Regen brute good odds. It will be damn hard to kill, and it has a damage type and secondary effect that Invuln is not especially strong against.
Street Justice might end up being a good PvP set. I don't know if anyone got around to testing it when it was still on beta, or what they determined if they did.
Basically, after i21 hits an Anything/Regen brute will be a fight clubbing monster.
As far as primary goes there is only one primary worth taking on a brute and that is SS. Katana might be worth it but brutes damage is not what it used to be. DM is decent on a scrap because of the higher base damage and crits but on a brute it's crap (even buzzsawed.) -
Quote:I think it would be decent yeah if you built for some SL defense and incarnate it out.Originally Posted by Xanatos
IMO LoS only matters when evading ranged attacks. When evading melee attacks all you have to do is get out of melee range. This would basically be stepping/jumping/running - aka the sort of thing Batman/Spiderman/Captain America do...they don't stand still. They also utilize ranged attacks to subdue their foes (web/batarangs/the shield.) So I dunno...I'm not really seeing the comic book comparison here.
The only guys I can really imagine doing fiteklubbing in comics would be the Hulk/Juggernaut types. Most other comic book fights tends to utilize travel powers in some way.
As an aside. Do you know if INV/SS tanks are still any good for fiteklubbing? I've got one collecting dust and thought of bringing him back. -
Quote:To me those three heroes are all hand to hand combatants who avoid incoming attacks by using super reflexes but use melee attacks for damage (and just like all toons in COX they have access to ranged attacks but just like fightclubbers tend to use melee damage to subdue their opponents.) Evasion that we typically use in COX, as you know, involves using the terrain to block your opponents line of sight to avoid incoming damage.Originally Posted by Xanatos
I dunno. I can think of heroes that are sluggers, but nonetheless rely on evasion in order to stay alive. (Batman/Spiderman/Captain America/etc.) I always thought fiteklubbers were people who just didn't like the fast-paced nature of COH's PVP. Which is fair enough, it's obviously not for everyone.
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Quote:There tends not to be yeah...Originally Posted by Xanatos
So there is literally zero evasion?
Personally I am fine with anything goes once in there. The reason there tends to be no evasion is based in roleplaying (imo) which gave birth to FightClub. The idea of two superpowered beings slugging it out comes from comic book battles (superhero cartoons) everywhere and because of that FightClubbers take mostly only melee attacks.
Since they've only for the most part got melee attacks the most evasion you usually see is to step aside to use aid self or buy a second or two for a heal/phase/hiber to refresh. Add to that melee toons can't really get a decent ranged attack chain that is going to kill a FightClubber by traditional ranged evasion + attack style. By doing so they tend to gimp their builds in survivability or offensive capabilities (hiber or +recovery or +acc/+tohit/-defense.) -
Quote:I just wanted to draw attention to the bolded part of your response...Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
We got a buff - and it's a good buff - but we got the wrong buff. We didn't have much of a problem with survivability before this change, and the new light form isn't better - it's just different. Peacebringers never needed it to be "permable" to be counted as one of the most durable archetypes in the game, and quite frankly I'm not terribly happy with the shortened duration.
And we DID lose something. There were those of us who liked light form in its former incarnation - not only because of the costume shift. We lost the duration and probably the most unique animation in the game, but more importantly (IMO) they removed the ability to attack on the run. It was one of the best things about Light Form, and I will miss it even more than the costume swap. When my team needed a damage dealer who couldn't be killed, Light Form delivered. Well, unless there were Dark Ring Mistresses, Master Illusionists, Rikti Magi, Tarantula Queens... wait, what was I saying? Oh, right: Light Form delivered. I could count on it for several spawns, or a double or even triple aggro. Now? I'm jumping out and healing before we're halfway through the crisis, and -most importantly - I have nowhere near the combat mobility that I had before.
My problem with the duration will be fixed once I've adjusted my build to make it perma, but I will always miss the non-rooting attacks that Arbiter Hawk called a bug. (which makes me wonder if Light Form would have been changed at all were they not fixing yet another bug that benefited Kheldians).
Some of us liked the footstomp animations - the cool stomp animations (and the cool light form shift) were what made me choose peacebringers in the beginning. Personally I never gave a damn that you couldn't use them from the air. How hard was it to turn off flight or lead out with a punch after the dwarf teleported? IMO we lost out there, too.
The game's not ALL about numbers, ya know.
But what did we get in return that we really wanted? A mediocre buff to our damage that gave us a whopping 16 dps over what we already did, and a shortened recharge to Photon Seekers..
But I'm sure the changes are all that and a bag of chips for someone who pvp's on a human-form Peacebringer.
And if we're trying to push more through now, it's probably due to Hawk's statement that "we're pretty happy with where Peacebringers are sitting now."
In other words, they're DONE making changes to Peacebringers. The changes we have are what we're going to have on live, and I'm betting it's going to be a very long time - if ever - before anything further is done.
I PVP plenty on my humandform PB and would like to point out I agree with everything you said about the lightform changes not being better but different in PVE and the same applies to PVP.
The old light form had the benefit of giving a PB a constant stream of damage (mediocre damage but constant) in PVP because of the no-root. Now IF we can make the new light form perma in PVP (thanks to DR on recharge) we'll most likely have to make sacrifices elsewhere for what will be about 5-7% additional resistance (depending on build) while in the new lightform. That's "great" and all but I'd rather have the no-root since the build up buff is negligible.
I'd have prefered they left lightform as it was and given PBs a straight damage increase (which is what a lot of people have been posting for PVE changes.)
Bottom line I think you'll find most PVP humanform PBs will agree the changes are not in fact "...all that and a bag of chips for someone who pvp's on a human-form Peacebringer." -
Grats to Hellmurke on winning the 1v1s. He takes home a complete set of Glad Armor PVP IOs and to Impure Adamantium for winning the FFA and takeing home a complete set of Glad Strikes PVP IOs.
Thanks to everyone who came out for the event. We had 22 take part in the 1v1s and I think 24-25 for the FFA. For the first FightClub tournament there were a couple of hiccups but the enxt one will be smoother.
Also, I'll be hosting regular 1v1s and small teams (2v2s and 3v3s) tournaments in the future as well with open classes and standard arena settings (no ts, no hd, 10 mins, with insps) so everyone can get a chance at some gear and peeps can get in some non-league play. -
Quote:With toggle suppression we are adding only ONE more toggle to the equation by switching to a form. A toggle that already comes with a recovery boost that stacks with inherent fitness.Originally Posted by Siolfir
Okay, I laughed. But really, they can't be emo: they're wearing too much white!
Toggle suppression instead of detoggling would be very nice, but one of the issues with that solution that has been brought up before is the endurance cost of the toggles. Perhaps increasing the +recovery in the forms - not enough to completely cover the cost, but enough to offset it some with common slotting - and then having non-offensive toggles suppress would be a way compromise and make this happen?
If you were not having end issues with toggles in human form then you are not going to have end issues with toggle suppresion in either of the forms.
If you are having end issues with toggle suppresion then the compromise is having the ability to shut off any or all of the toggles at your discretion; not asking for more +recovery in the forms. -
Who: All scrappers, tankers, brutes, stalkers.
What: Single Elimination 1v1 FightClub Tournament. 10 minute match on Cage Map, no inspirations, no heal decay, no travel suppresion. All incarnates allowed. Fights will be randomly determined. Top score wins outside of sudden death. A tie score by the time sudden death begins means a draw.
A draw means you go again with same settings only on a 5 minute timer AND sudden death win/top score counts as a victory. The winner of each match will report the results to Shark Wrangler as soon as he/she returns to Pocket D following each match.
When: 8:00 pm EST Saturday, August 27th, 2011.
Where: Pocket D on Freedom Server.
Why: The winner will be awarded a complete set of Gladiator's Armor PVP IOs.
Also: King of the Cage - Last man standing. We'll squeeze as many figthclubbers as possible onto the cage map (same settings as above) with a Lives Stock of 2. The last toon standing wins a complete set of Gladiator's Strike PVP IOs. If there are too many people for the cage map then I'll use a different map.
Anyone interested in participating can shoot @Mercury Down a tell to pre-register. Single elims tend to go fast but expect to commit upwards of three-hours depending on turnout.
Any trash talk or disrespectful behaviour will result in disqualification.
I am hosting so will not be competing.
GL HF! -
Quote:Not to mention, you are only adding one toggle to the mix - dwarf form or nova form - which also comes with +rec to boot. It's a very nice QOL feature and if people are concerned about paying the cost of the suppressed toggles they can still be turned off.Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
Be careful what you wish for, here. If I'm not mistaken suppressed toggles still consume endurance, do they not? Not really sure if I remember that correctly, though.
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Calling all fightclubbers!
There is a bounty of 2 Billion Influence and a Level 50 Panacea Heal/End/Rech PVP IO that will be paid to any tank, scrapper, brute, or stalker who wins (Sudden Death does not count) a 10 minute , no inspirations, no heal decay, no travel suppresion cage match against Shark Wrangler.
He is a Shield/SS tank on the Freedom server but can also meet any challengers on the Test server so feel free to shoot "@Mercury Down" a tell if you'd like to meet on Freedom or Test. If you meet on test and win then I'll email the winnings to you on live.
First one to win gets the bounty...Good Luck! -
Quote:Vince was online yesterday. We had a couple of fights. He's still the toughest SS/Invuln out there.Originally Posted by Sentry4
I made my SS/invul around 2 years ago on Justice based off of Vincent Balmont, he actually is the one who got me to start PvPing more seriously. He's taking a small break right now travelling, but he still surprises me by not losing to anyone when he randomly shows up. As a side note, Vince -finally- moved to freedom a couple months back.
I'll have to change a few things and fight Ca Blaze again then. Last time he made my warworks useless with water spout, but i've got phantom untouchable pet now, meaning my lore won't be 100% useless next time. -
Quote:SS/Invuln on a brute still tends to be a beast. You may know Vincent Balmont, I don't think I have ever beating him on anything, but I suspect I could take him on my shield/ss tank.Originally Posted by Sentry4
I've got a SS/invul brute that does well, the closest thing to a loss was a draw with Ca Blaze's Kat/regen which he says is undefeated. How'd your shield do against him Merc?
As far as Ca Blaze is concerned, he beat my tank prior to its current build and I have since beaten him twice. He needs to adjust his bio
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Quote:I'd recommend taking something else for pets. While the elementals are fine for adding -tohit and for knocking your opponents pets out of the way. You are going to find you'll be lacking enough damage to drop anything fast enough.Originally Posted by Toolate2TurnBack
And i plan on using storm elementals,
The untargetable pet has hurricane, -30% to hit
Also, I'd recommend skipping the -tohit interface for the same reason as skipping the elementals. You need more damage so take reactive.
Take a decent DPS pet (cims are great but you'll find polar lights are better all around) + taunt + reactive and you will get kills.
The key to building a successful Shield tank fightclubber is getting your defense to around 40% melee and also capitalizing on Shield tanks resists coupled with tough. Many peeps will tell you to take Nerve alpha for the +acc/def and that's good advice but depending on your APP/PPP you may want to consider Cardiac. Earth mastery is pretty much the best you can take for fightclub imo so I'd go with cardiac. You're going to get some much needed end redux and the added +res.
40ish def + 40ish res + rebirth and you should never die. It's also a good idea to have ageless for when you fight sappers. -
Quote:Regen's heals are not affected by heal decay. The no heal decay is so aid self users are not penalized for using aid self combined with their regular heal.Originally Posted by Xanatos
No heal decay? No insps?
lol I wonder if a regen scrapper came up with these rules.
As far as insps are concerned when most melee duels are finished the score tends to be very low and usually only seperated by one kill or two. Throwing insps in there would mean nothing but draws. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Like_Woah
I recently returned to CoH since issue 13 and to me the funny thing about fight club is it's less skill and more money/math based than a traditional 1v1. Just a step above playing odds or evens. Im not familiar with shields however given your Super Strength, you prob triple stack rage with plenty of tohit, capped hp, decent regen, incarnates plus aid self and I feel its safe to say going toe to toe against you is a waste of time. I assume you seldom lose but don't always win. Do you really find that fun and or even slightly challenging? I would give you more credit for your mids build/power choices than your actual ability to pvp in the traditional sense. This is just my opinion ofcourse.
Fight clubbing is a sub-culture of the PVP in this game and whether you agree or not there certainly is skill required in making a decent build, and (like ranged fights) knowing when to use certain powers and knowing how to respond to other builds. People tend not to move but there is no rule against it (imo.) They tend to stand still because they need to keep pressure on their opponent in order to get a kill (just like ranged toons only these are melee attacks so require you to stay close to keep the damage going.) The main reason people don't use insps in fight club is so someone can actually win a fight. As you may or may not know, melees are generally hard to kill. It can often take 8-9 minutes before there is a single kill with many close calls up until that point. I've got influence to spare so spend it on melee toons for fight club and it's a part of the game so why not?
It's interesting to me when people take an "elitist" attitude and cast disparaging remarks at fight clubbers and use words such as "skill" and "traditional" to indicate ranged battles are "superior" forms of PVP. Whatever. Fight club is just another form of PVP in this game. Some people enjoy it, others don't, and then some people feel the need to try and insult the people who do enjoy it.
Just a heads up, I also have plenty of of ranged toons I use for zone/arena duels/team play for KB and Leagues and so far I enjoy all forms of PVP in this game (i13 changes aside.) If people want to fight only in petless MM battles then all the power to them if that is what they enjoy. I am not going to say that kind PVP is wrong if those people like it. I am here to play the game the way I like, not judge other people for doing what they find fun. -
Quote:Fight club to me means two melee with no insps, no heal decay. Other than that, anything goes.Originally Posted by Xanatos
Do people have to stand still in fightclub?
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Quote:Yes that is correct. I neglected to mention that but given we are talking about fight club builds....Originally Posted by Like_Woah
I am pretty sure you have only extended that offer to any melee toons that can beat you...
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Quote:If you are on Freedom, you may have noticed my occasinal offer of PVP IOs and cash awards for anyone who beats my tank in a 10 min cage match. His name is Shark Wrangler.Originally Posted by Lone_mutant_
Everyone is entitled their own opinion i suppose. When i first thought about making a scrapper for pvp i was told to stay away from spines and katana because they simply dont dish out enough damage. And for shield / ss i dunno mybe ive seen you around mybe i havent there arent very many notable shield / ss tank's that ive seen anyway.
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Quote:Kat/regen is the only thing that comes close for two reasons: divine avalanche, and the -def from the other attacks.Originally Posted by Lone_mutant_
Lol kat/regen. clearly you seem to be playing a different game than i am...
I don't know the kat/regens you have been fighting but if they are losing to a fire/regen then they are bad kat/regens. Then again regens should not be dying at all...
Also, what server do you play on? I'm on Freedom, I'll put my shield/ss against any melee toon you want to try against it. If you are on Freedom you already know my tank. If you are not then meet on test? -
Quote:Fat chance. The only thing that seems to come even close is a kat/regen.Originally Posted by Lone_mutant_
nahh FM/Regen. can take that out
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Shield/SS tank is the new king of fightclub. That is all.
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Quote:Phasing and attempting to kill someone in hibernate does not work. Phasing and attempting to kill someone in phase WILL work.Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
No you are not invincible, you are phased. Anyone with a phase power may also phase and then proceed to kill you. There is a period of activation time too, that you are easily targeted by normal players.
The only way to kill a player in hibernate is to activate damage powers with delayed damage or damage that lands at the same time as the player activates hibernate. Psi blast for example is perfect for this, you can essentially fire off three attacks just before/as the opponent activates hibernate and becomes encased in ice and then the blasts land and kill him after he feels safe adn sound as an ice cube. -
Removing travel suppresion and heal decay would definitely go a loooong way to increasing my enjoyment of PVP in this game and as Xanatos says I think it would take VERY little resources for them to remove these two aspects of the current PVP setting.
I know I am not alone in this either. Whenever I am on vent with people in zones the biggest complaint I hear is about precisely these two modifications to PVP. No TS and No HD are pretty much the agreed standard arena settings and there is a reason why: it's more fun without them on.
Devs, if you are reading. Please remove travel suppresion and heal decay.
It's not a lot to ask and it's not a lot to invest for a few continued subscriptions (especially now that Freedom is on the way.) COX has been lucky the last two latest Superhero MMOs have had their own problems but eventually one is going to come along that will be on par with or better than this one, only it will have better PVP... -
Quote:I kinda like this...Originally Posted by Big_Soto
Listed below is how Cosmic Balance buffs a Peacebringer.
Tanker, Mastermind, Corruptor or Defender = Increase Damage
Scrapper, Brute, Stalker or Blaster = Increase Resistance
Peacebringer, Warshade, Arachnos Widow or Arachnos Soldier = Recharge Slow Resist
Controller or Dominator = Limited protection from Control effects
My idea for a Buff for Cosmic Balance is to change it to accept only one Common IO. The enhancements allowed would be Damage, Resist, Slow or a Hold IO. If you leave Cosmic Balance unslotted then it will default to the original setting as it has always been. If it is slotted with one of the 4 IOs allowed then you will gain the stats as having a full team of that one buff. Once this happens and you are on a team, you will not gain the original buff of Cosmic Balance. For example if slot a Common Damage IO and I will have the damage buff of being on a full team of 8 (Tanker, Mastermind, Corruptor or Defender) and not gain the buffs from any other member on the team from cosmic balance. If I slot a Common Hold IO I will gain the Limited protection from Control effects as if I was on a full team of Controllers or Dominators. This will work the same for Warshades also.
I hope my idea is not confusing, because I had a hell of a time trying to put my idea in writing.
That and toggle suppresion in forms for both kehldians. For PBs I'd like a little higher base damage and lowered recharge to photon seekers and I'd be happy. -
Quote:1. You are definetely going to need aid self. You'll find in today's fight club you are going to be missing ALOT, because you've got regens with MOG and Barrier out the whazzoo to deal with. For Siphone life I have a couple of recommendations for slotting: 1. If you are not in need of any specific bonuses Two Nucleolus HamiOs, a Dam/rech IO, two Golgi HamiOs, and a Heal/Rech or Heal/end IO. 2. If you are concerned about bonuses A Touch of NIctos Heal and Heal/rech and Four Gladiator's Strike.Originally Posted by Big_Soto
(1) Since I plan on slotting Siphon Life with heals and getting Spiritual that boost up recharge and heal, is getting medicine really needed?
This makes sense and I will do some tweaking and try to increase my defense.
(2) It has been a while since I did a fight club match, but do 1vs1 melee matches have guys that use phase?
(3) That is why I wanted to get Soul mastery for Darkest Night so I will not have RttC drop as much, but I need to work on my defense.
Shadow Maul does hit hard, but it does take forever. I can go without that and slot up boxing since I do not have a toggle dropper and boxing is a Disorient.
(4) For my power pools I am going to go Speed, Fighting, Leadership and the last one I have to think about. My choices are Leaping or Medicine. I cant see myself getting phase on a 1 vs 1 pvp toon. I have some sort of escape power and my zone pvp toons such as phase, PFF or hibernate, but that helps with multiple players attacking at the same time.
Thanks a lot for your help.
2. Almost every fightclubber is going to have phase for the reasons I mentioned in my first post. They use it as an escape, or to chase after other phasers got get a kill, and it's a good way to get some rech for no slots.
3. I'd still recommend against DN but yeah if you are going to take it, adding some S/L defense will go a long way to making it more effective.
4. Between leaping and medicine there really is no choice to make, medicine all the way. For fight club you really do not need travel powers. If someone strarts running away in the cage, sprint it all you will need. If they are interested in fight club you are not going to have to chase someone all over the map, just the cage will do.