FireKitty

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MoG does suck i respeced it out pretty much as soon as I got it.

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Good to see you gave it a chance...

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You’re a Scrapper, don’t be a wuss.

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Most people say this in guides when referring to concealment pool but concealment pool has its uses, not necessarily for escape and debt avoidance.

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I recognise that quote...

With the possibility of 1 and a half hours worth of invisibility from the Siren's Call patrol mission, I don't really think there is any need for a Scrapper to take the Concealment pool. Always a matter of opinion though.



Nice guide, Aurrius! The only (small) thing I'll say is that I'd slot IH for recharge before heal, but that's about it.

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But still no builds suggested, anyway it is now pointless since I very much doubt Fire_B is bothering to read this thread any further.

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On the contrary, I think that this shows just how varied builds can be and there is a lot to be learned from this thread.

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I personally would not use that build (I posted it just as an example based in other comments), but again this thread is long ago dead.

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Are people still posting in it? Then it's not dead.

I didn't suggest a build because those are minor changes which make very little difference to the build so it wasn't really worth the time and effort to make one especially.

But, since you seem convinced that advice isn't advice without an accompanying build, here is what I would do:

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Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
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Name: let's make a build then so you can stop whining
Level: 50
Archetype: Scrapper
Primary: Broad Sword
Secondary: Super Reflexes
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01) --> Hack==> Acc(1) Dmg(3) Dmg(3) Dmg(5) EndRdx(5) Rechg(7)
01) --> Focused Fighting==> DefBuf(1) DefBuf(7) DefBuf(9) EndRdx(9) EndRdx(46)
02) --> Slice==> Acc(2) Dmg(11) Dmg(11) Dmg(13) Rechg(13) EndRdx(15)
04) --> Focused Senses==> DefBuf(4) DefBuf(15) DefBuf(17) EndRdx(40) EndRdx(48)
06) --> Swift==> Run(6)
08) --> Parry==> Acc(8) Dmg(17) Dmg(19) Dmg(19) EndRdx(21) DefBuf(21)
10) --> Combat Jumping==> DefBuf(10)
12) --> Practiced Brawler==> Rechg(12) Rechg(23) EndRdx(45)
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump(14)
16) --> Build Up==> Rechg(16) Rechg(23) Rechg(25)
18) --> Health==> Heal(18) Heal(46) Heal(46)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20) EndMod(25) EndMod(27)
22) --> Quickness==> Run(22)
24) --> Whirling Sword==> Acc(24) Dmg(27) Dmg(29) Dmg(29) EndRdx(31) EndRdx(31)
26) --> Disembowel==> Acc(26) Dmg(31) Dmg(33) Dmg(33) EndRdx(33) Rechg(34)
28) --> Lucky==> DefBuf(28) DefBuf(34) DefBuf(34)
30) --> Agile==> DefBuf(30) DefBuf(36) DefBuf(36)
32) --> Head Splitter==> Acc(32) Dmg(36) Dmg(37) Dmg(37) EndRdx(37) Rechg(39)
35) --> Evasion==> DefBuf(35) DefBuf(39) DefBuf(39) EndRdx(40) EndRdx(50)
38) --> Elude==> Rechg(38) Rechg(40) Rechg(42)
41) --> Focused Accuracy==> EndRdx(41) EndRdx(42) EndRdx(42) TH_Buf(43) TH_Buf(43) TH_Buf(43)
44) --> Conserve Power==> Rechg(44) Rechg(45) Rechg(45)
47) --> Dodge==> DefBuf(47) DefBuf(48) DefBuf(48)
49) --> Hasten==> Rechg(49) Rechg(50) Rechg(50)
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01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
01) --> Critical Hit==> Empty(1)
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Happy now?

Slot and power wise that is much more similar to how I would plan a BS/SR build, although I would take Disembowel at 26 (it's such a milestone in the set I don't know if I could bear another 4 levels without it!) and Build Up sooner (Build Up and Headsplitter critcal...mmm...).

True, although I'd probably prefer to keep Dodge for the scaling resistance buffs.

So recommended changes to powers and slotting aren't 'proposed solutions to flaws'?

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Dunno what bait is (sorry for my bad english), but I still haven't seen proposed solutions to the flaws of the suggested builds (which I never pretended to be flawless).

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Seriously? Have you read nothing I have said in this thread?

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As I said I'm not 100% sure how it works (and I don't think people on the US boards do either) and there might be a cap on how much you can resist.

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I was thinking that the debuff resistance might work along the lines of duration reduction, like disorient resistance, as opposed to actually reducing the numbers.

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I think that they do effect the magnitude of the debuff, according to Arcanaville's excellent defence guide:

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Resistance to defense debuffs

As of the writing of this guide, supposedly resistance to defense debuffs have been added to hero and villain sets. The powers themselves now state that they include such resistance in the in-game power descriptions. Castle posted that to the best of his knowledge, the debuff resistance is in. However, careful testing has not demonstrated conclusively that they are working properly, and several tests appear to suggest that it isn't working correctly, or is working at a much lower level than originally specified. The thread where the concept of resistance to defense debuffs was originally put forth by Statesman is here. Castle has also stated that the mechanism might not be as simple as we were lead to believe: sometimes the resistance reduces the duration of the debuff, and sometimes the magnitude (but most of the time, the magnitude - see this post for more info. I believe the jury is still out on whether or not this effect is really working properly.

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And later on in the thread:

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Arcana, have we ever gotten confirmation on how the Defense Debuff Resistance works?

Castle said that sometimes it effects the magnitude and other times the duration. For when it effects the magnitude is a straight out resist? Like say I have 10% Defense Debuff resistance currently, does that mean I ignore the first -10% Defense Debuff, so if I get hit by -15% Defense Debuff I now have -5%, and any more Defense Debuff stacked keeps going up? Or does it mean I reduce it by 10% so, I am effected by -13.5% Defense Debuff? Or does it work in the wierd manner that Mez Resist does i.e. 15/(1+0.1) = 13.63% Defense Debuff I get effected by?

Just asking because I haven't seen anything new about this, and it's not exactly easy to test I understand. Would be nice if we could get a dev explaining how it works sometime.

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I don't specifically remember when Castle said that, although if he did, my guess is that is because some defense debuff powers themselves are enhanceable for magnitude, and some for duration, and the resistance keys off of that. I'm just not sure which defense debuff powers are enhanceable for duration.

In any case, for the defense debuffs that are resisted by magnitude, what I've been told in the past is that they are resisted like you would think resistance works, and the way other effects are resisted. In other words, if at a particular level and with a particular set of powers activated, SR had 60% defense debuff resistance, then if it was hit with a -5% defense debuff, it would resist 60% of that, of 5 * 0.6 = 3, and feel the rest: 5 - 3 = 2. A 2% defense debuff would land (actually, I think a 5% debuff would land and the SR would feel 2% of it - the difference is that if you turned off all your toggles suddenly, I think you'd suddenly start feeling more, as some of your debuff protection toggled off, and more of the debuff "got through").

Still haven't had the time to really hard-core test this, though.

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I get the impression that no one really understands how it works.

I assume he means that you don't need all of the DM powers.

6 ToHit slots in FA, 6 damage slots in attacks and perma Hasten. Those were the days!

Well that's all personal opinion

The only bind I have on my Scrappers (and have adopted on all my alts as it is so useful) is:

/bind c "target_enemy_near"

Which targets the nearest enemy to you, very useful in busy fights and if you're lazy like me.

I'd be tempted to slot up the attacks in this build a bit more, but I'm not sure if DM needs recharge slots in the attacks to have a good attack chain. Things like the slots in Fast Healing are nice to have but by no means essential so they could be moved to the attacks, the same goes for the endredux in Integration and in Fly (unless you intend to use Fly while fighting the end cost is fine).

I always like to have the 3rd recharge in Reconstruction as nothing is worse than waiting for it to recharge when you've got a sliver of health left! Might also be worth putting an extra endredx in Focussed Accuracy as it's a big end hog, even on a Regen.

Tough I'm not sure about, I had it on my Claws/Regen but not on my MA/Regen and to be honest didn't notice much difference in survivability. It's always nice to have though so if you've got room in your build I'd probably put it in.

The presence pool would potentially be nice to be able to fear a boss, it might be worth playing around with it on the test server.

I don't really think that the Concealment pool is needed for Scrappers as you are able to take damage and so there isn't much need to try and avoid the attention of mobs - most of the time they'll be pretty [censored] with you anyway. It's a useful pool if you want to ghost missions, but as you are looking to get IOs I'd imagine you'd want to kill as many mobs as possible in order to get salvage and recipies.

The leaping pool is nice but I'm not sure if you need it as well as Fly, and Integration covers the mez resists provided by Combat Jumping and Acrobatics.

In PvE FA with one acc is fine. It should also be fine in PvP although you can't use it in zones other than RV.

Yes

As I said I'm not 100% sure how it works (and I don't think people on the US boards do either) and there might be a cap on how much you can resist.

No, you're right - as I mentioned in my original post you can exceed the 'soft' cap but it has no actual effect on how often you get hit. Really when you're running Elude you will probably be running your toggles as well, giving you a total of 75.4% defence with unslotted Elude. This gives you a lot of room for defence debuffs.

However, SR's toggles, passives and Elude all provide resistance to defence debuffs - they decrease the effect a defence debuff has on you. Each toggle gives you 13.84% resistance, each passive gives you 6.92% and Elude gives you 34.6%. This gives you a total of 96.88% defence debuff resistance. Therefore your 15% debuff would really only debuff your defence by 0.468% (I think, although I'm not sure of any caps etc). I think you would need a defence debuff in the order of 1000% to get you below the 45% cap, but that number seems a little high so I'm not sure.

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Of course your opinion is very valid but, as I pointed on previous post, I suggested a build that fits my playstile and I obviously disagree in many things with you, meaning neither of us is right or wrong.

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Posting a build means it is open to criticism, which is what I did - it wasn't personal.

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Regarding the travel power, well I don't think it is that important, specially since most of the times there's usually a friendly tp available and may be a problem in some large maps kinda IP or for the Terra Volta Trial, but if my teammates are that upset, I can always solo or change team, besides, i also mentioned him it's his choice to pick up a travel power or not, bear in mind he was getting fly at lvl 49 and that made me think he didn't want a travel power.

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Yes, but the OP had 3-slotted Quickness and Swift which is much better than having them with just the base slot. Recall Friend isn't that common, and it's always a bad idea to rely on people - and I don't think anyone wants to teleport people around especially on long trips such as from Perez to Terra Volta, for example.

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In my humble opinion, tough is a must for getting the most of the /SR powerset for the passives bonus, but again, that is just my humble opinion.

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Yes, Tough is useful but it can be difficult to work with on an end-heavy build such as BS/SR.

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Regarding the toggles, if slotted with 2 endrdx each I managed to keep them without problems on my DM/SR scrapper, but then, DM is not BS in terms of end usage, however i felt it was worth the try.

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You'd be surprised the difference in end costs. Also, the difference between 1 and 2 endreds in the SR toggles is just 0.12 end/second, so the usefulness is debateable.

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On the other hand, I find more defence useful that's why i choose maneuvers and that allows me access to tactics which suits me well when facing the AV's in RV which is my main occupation after hitting 50.

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You have your playstyle, I have mine - I personally wouldn't consider them.

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Also, my playstile is not going perma-elude, in fact i very seldom need to use elude, hence keeping it just an emergency power also useful when low on end when a second mob is attracted.

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Regardless of this, slotting Elude for defence is pointless and a waste of slots.

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If i am to believe Buffy's guide, the difference of slotting the passives with 3 defbuff slots instead of one is aboout 1.5% each (if i recall correctly), so i prefer to use the slots somewhere else.

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It's 2.03% difference, which doesn't seem much but it's important to realise that the nearer you get to 45%, the more each percent of defence is worth.

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Conserve power is of course a good power that i neglected to suggest (my fault) however in any case i was pretending anyone else to follow the posted build as a bible, but again, choices must be done in any build and in the one i am planning to try, my choice wasn't conserve power this time, of course it may be a mistake, that's what respecs are for.
And finally, regarding medicine pool, i also recomended it to him as an option to be considered.
At the end of the day someone was asking for suggestions and i suggested what i think it's best, of course warning him that my suggestion fitted MY playstile.
Every build is conditioned to the person behind the keyboard, and as good as your build may be, your scrapper played by you may be the best scrapper in game by far, but exactly the same scrapper played by me may not even be decent.
I appreciate your critics, but perhaps it would be a matter of returning to the main point which is giving suggestions to someone who asked for them. As sub-optimal as you find my build i find yours and that doesn't make any of us right or wrong.

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The main point of my post was to point out the redundant slotting and the endurance was an opinion on the build. It was a criticism of the build, not of the player.

At the end of the day any secondary is fine for soloing, with Regen probably being the best. There's not much you can do wrong.

If Invuln has AoE potential then SR does (Quickness increases attack rate) and so does Regen (Quick Recovery allows you to both fight for longer and slot for more recharge/acc).

Why are Regen and SR on that list? They don't have any damaging powers, it's like saying Energy Melee has bad healing potential...

Looking at this build, the first thing that strikes me is the end use - I don't think a BS/SR can really afford to run Tactics, Maneuvers, Focussed Accuracy and Tough. I'm not really sure how useful Tough would be and terrorize is so rare I don't think it's worth a power pick. The def buff provided by Maneuvers isn't really worth the end cost. I'd consider taking Aid Self instead and Conserve Power is always good to take.

That char is really going to struggle getting to missions. Swift, Sprint and Quickness all with only one slot is slow, and with 3-slotted it's still not that fast. I think it would [censored] off many teammates with how long it takes to get to missions. I'd recommend a travel power, probably Super Jump with Combat Jumping for the extra +def with minimal end cost.

A pet peeve of mine is when I see Parry/Divine Avalanche slotted with def buffs. As a power from a Scrapper offensive primary I feel it should be treated as an attack first with a nice secondary effect. If you don't slot for damage it will considerably hurt your overall damage and as damage is your main role it will dent your effectiveness. Besides, the slots for defence buff are worthless - let me explain:

Since Issue 7 the way defence has been changed. Mobs have two numbers which affect the chance they have of landing an attack on you - accuracy and tohit. Defence buffs subtract from tohit but do not affect the accuracy modifier. The equation is:

<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>Chance to hit = accuracy * (tohit - defence)</pre><hr />

Since I7, mobs up to +5 have a tohit value of 50%. This can be reduced by defence to 5% - so 45% will result in the brackets being 5%. This 45% is called the defence 'soft' cap as although you can have more defence than this, it won't have any effect.

Even level minions have an accuracy modifier of 1, so if you have 10% defence it has a 1 * (50% - 10%) = 40% chance to hit you. If you are at the soft cap, they have a 1 * (50% - 45%) = 5% chance to hit you.

As mobs increase in rank, their accuracy modifier also increases. Bosses have a modifier of 1.5, which means that if you have 45% defence they will have a 1.3 * (50% - 45%) = 6.5% chance to hit you.

The accuracy modifier also increases as mob level increases, so a +1 minion has a 1.1 * (50% - 45%) = 5.5% chance to hit you, but crucially there is nothing that you can do to affect this.

So there's some background information. Why did I bother saying all this?

With SR's toggles and passives 3-slotted, you have 30.4% defence to melee, ranged and AoE attacks. Added in Combat Jumping with the base slot and you get 32.0%.

Parry have a base defence buff of 15%. It stacks with your melee defence and which brings you to 47% melee defence, which is above the soft cap.

Now, defence debuffs will bring you back below the soft cap but I feel they are too uncommon to lose DPS for. I would therefore slot Parry primarily for damage, and add in defence as needed. I would slot Parry (with FA) 1xAcc, 3xDamage, 1xEndRed, 1xDefBuff and without FA 2xAcc, 3xDamage, 1xEndRed.

The same goes for Elude - it has a base defence buff of 45% which itself brings it to the soft cap, add in your toggles and passives and it gives you plenty of room for defence debuffs. I would definitely slot it 3xRecharge as it's the kind of power you'd want up as much as possible and I would also definitely take it as soon as possible at level 38.

Intimidate and/or Invoke Panic could be useful for stacking fear on bosses (with Fearsome Stare) but I'm not really sure if it's worth it.

Yeah, early on I give slotting priority to my primary over my secondary and mainly slot accuracy as in the lower levels the best defence really is a good offence.

Ugh, Jump Kick!

Regen slotting looks alright (the worth of the EndRed in Integration is debateable though), but attacks really need to be 6-slotted - I prefer 2xAcc, 3xDamage, 1xRech without FA or 1xAcc, 3xDamage, 1xRech, 1xEndRed when you get FA.

Take those slots out of Revive, it only needs the base slot (if you take the power at all, I find an Awaken is plenty) and the same goes for Swift and Super Jump. Put those slots into your attacks.

What level are you? At level 50 you will have too many attacks, I find that slotted with 1xRech Thunder Kick, Storm Kick, Crane Kick and Eagle's Claw chain very well. Crippling Axe Kick is a good power to have till 32 but the awful animation meant I respecced it out as soon as Eagle's Claw was slotted up.

I didn't take Cobra Strike until 49 (I had nothing else I really needed), Regen will provide you with plenty of defence and I never found I desperately needed to mez a mob. Sappers can go down in a couple of hits before they can react to your presence.

You really don't need Conserve Power with Quick Recovery and Stamina.



For reference, here is my MA/Regen build:

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Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
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Name: Loathing
Level: 50
Archetype: Scrapper
Primary: Martial Arts
Secondary: Regeneration
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01) --&gt; Storm Kick==&gt; Acc(1) EndRdx(3) Dmg(3) Dmg(5) Dmg(5) Rechg(7)
01) --&gt; Fast Healing==&gt; Heal(1) Heal(48) Heal(48)
02) --&gt; Thunder Kick==&gt; Acc(2) EndRdx(7) Dmg(9) Dmg(9) Dmg(11) Rechg(11)
04) --&gt; Quick Recovery==&gt; EndMod(4) EndMod(13) EndMod(13)
06) --&gt; Reconstruction==&gt; Rechg(6) Rechg(15) Rechg(15) Heal(17) Heal(17) Heal(19)
08) --&gt; Crane Kick==&gt; Acc(8) EndRdx(19) Dmg(21) Dmg(21) Dmg(23) Rechg(23)
10) --&gt; Dull Pain==&gt; Rechg(10) Rechg(25) Rechg(25) Heal(27) Heal(27) Heal(29)
12) --&gt; Hasten==&gt; Rechg(12) Rechg(29) Rechg(31)
14) --&gt; Super Speed==&gt; Run(14)
16) --&gt; Integration==&gt; Heal(16) Heal(31) Heal(31)
18) --&gt; Focus Chi==&gt; Rechg(18) Rechg(40) Rechg(42)
20) --&gt; Swift==&gt; Run(20)
22) --&gt; Health==&gt; Heal(22) Heal(50) Heal(50)
24) --&gt; Stamina==&gt; EndMod(24) EndMod(33) EndMod(33)
26) --&gt; Dragon's Tail==&gt; Acc(26) EndRdx(33) Dmg(34) Dmg(34) Dmg(34) Rechg(36)
28) --&gt; Instant Healing==&gt; Rechg(28) Rechg(36) Rechg(36) Heal(37) Heal(37) Heal(37)
30) --&gt; Combat Jumping==&gt; DefBuf(30)
32) --&gt; Eagle's Claw==&gt; Acc(32) EndRdx(39) Dmg(39) Dmg(39) Dmg(40) Rechg(40)
35) --&gt; Super Jump==&gt; Jump(35)
38) --&gt; Moment Of Glory==&gt; DmgRes(38) Rechg(46) Rechg(46) Rechg(48)
41) --&gt; Focused Accuracy==&gt; EndRdx(41) EndRdx(42) EndRdx(42) TH_Buf(43) TH_Buf(43) TH_Buf(43)
44) --&gt; Laser Beam Eyes==&gt; Acc(44) EndRdx(45) Dmg(45) Dmg(45) Dmg(46)
47) --&gt; Resilience==&gt; DmgRes(47)
49) --&gt; Cobra Strike==&gt; Acc(49) Acc(50)
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01) --&gt; Sprint==&gt; Empty(1)
01) --&gt; Brawl==&gt; Empty(1)
01) --&gt; Critical Hit==&gt; Empty(1)
02) --&gt; Rest==&gt; Empty(2)
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Hope this helps.

Regen Scrappers only have a weakness to psi when they're using MoG, which many people don't take and those who do take it know better than to use it when there's psi damage flying around.

That's a really good typical scenario a Scrapper will face...