ClawsandEffect

*I* have a bias toward solo play? Where did I say anywhere in this thread that a melee toon needs to be able to solo at x8?

What I said was:

Where did I say in that quote that a melee AT should solo at x8? I don't see that anywhere. I was referring to team play. I don't believe a team should require a tank, but if I invite one, I expect them to do their job, which is holding agro. If they have lower mez protection than they currently have, they will get continually mezzed because everything is aiming at them instead of the rest of the team. Only Invulnerability has a taunt aura that remains on when mezzed, every other set's aura shuts off. When that aura shuts off because it's mezzed, that tank loses agro. Tanks need the protection they have to do their job, which is taking agro for a team. I didn't say anything at all about solo play.


So, instead of using the tools you are given (breakfrees, proactive mez defense), you are saying the devs need to change the game to suit you.

Right.

When someone builds a building with metal studs, you don't demand that they tear it down and rebuild it with wood so you can use a hammer instead of the screwdriver they gave you. Refusal to use what you are given does not equal a design flaw.



Okay, so you have the best AoE mez in the game available to a non-Controller, non-Dominator character, and apparently are refusing to use it. I'm talking about Siren's Song. It is permanent with just SOs. You can sleep entire spawns, leaving you free to kill any bosses that may be there without the minions and LTs bothering you. When it wears off you can do it again because it is recharged already (I have 2 level 50 Sonic characters, I know exactly how effective this is).

Another little tidbit: Fulcrum Shift deals no damage, so it won't wake them up. You can FS and kill them much faster with your buffed damage output, and they will sleep right through it. You're a Sonic/Kin, so you should have no problem sleeping them, Fulcrum Shifting, killing bosses first and stunning them awake one at a time with Screech. With the buffed damage on your ST blasts, and high recharge you doubtlessly have, you should tear through that spawn in short order in relative safety.

Now, if you skipped Siren's Song and Screech, you have basically set yourself in a situation where mez is unpreventable by you. That isn't the games fault. Refusal to take and use powers that would be useful in that situation does not equal a design flaw.


Any AT with any powersets can solo an Elite Boss. Sure, it's easier for some than others, but anyone can do it. If an Empathy defender can solo one (which has been proven before), anyone can.

Obviously. What you want is for the devs to gimp melee classes and force them to ask support classes for help.

That is clearly a much better solution than using the tools at your disposal to make things easier on you.

/sarcasm


Minions and lieutenants have mezzes above 40? Yeah, I am well aware of that.

Wow. You get Siren's Song at level 18, 22 levels to get it slotted and learn how to use it effectively. That takes care of mezzing minions and LTs while solo. It baffles me that you're running a character that can handle minion and LT mez better than most and are still having problems.

And I find it exceptionally hard to believe that you run on teams and not a single member of the team can do anything about mezzes at all. Sounds like you need to run on better teams, to be perfectly honest.

If you want to play by those rules....let's see that brute Scourge.

Well, then I guess you should be deleting all of your "Natural origin, regular guy" characters when they get defeated.

Because, by your own logic: A regular guy using reverse-engineered alien technology to teleport himself to the hospital? He becomes tech, period.

Hey, don't look at me, you made the rules.

I thought you needed GR to even get into the base where you can trade them in.

It would work for Mayhem Missions. But since you're reacting to a bank robbery it doesn't work for Safeguards so well. If someone is robbing the Skyway City bank and no one is robbing the Atlas bank, you'd probably want to protect the one that is actually being robbed....instead of standing around in the lobby of the Atlas bank chatting with the security guards.

Probably just the ones I don't play very often.

I have a lot of characters that will be getting situational powers. Such as my Claws/Regen getting the rez, and my Sonic/Devices getting Shockwave.

A couple others will be getting travel powers I skipped in favor of other things. It doesn't really matter to me how fast I can get to the mission, I'd rather perform well once inside. So a few of them will bet getting SS or SJ.

That's because they are rare to non-existent at any other level. There was a bug that people were taking advantage of to get level 51, 52, and 53 HOs, but it was fixed and the only ones remaining are the ones that were acquired while the bug was active still. That means there is a very limited number of them, and the people that have them are seldom willing to give them up at ANY price.

I'm not entirely sure if it was even possible to get them at a lower level than 50.

So, if 8x spawns aren't a big deal at +4 without a tank, why do support ATs need mez protection again? You kinda shot your own argument in the foot here. If your support ATs can run on a team of 8 at +4 without a tank.....arguing that they still need mez protection is kind of ridiculous.

Except it's NOT unbeatable. If you've ever fought Carnies on a full team, you have seen situations where a tank, scrapper, or brute will get held. If a spawn shows up with a Master Illusionist and 2 regular Illusionists in it (which happens quite frequently), you have a lot of non-positional psionic mez right there already. Add to that the fact that Master Illusionists will spawn 3 more Illusionists and you have SIX mag 2 holds coming in at you that almost no one will be able to avoid (since I can't think of a whole lot of builds that can achieve large amounts of Psi defense), and if the Dark Servant the MI also spawns happens to tag you with Petrifying Gaze, you will be held through any amount of hold protection you have.

2 Malta Hercules Titans can hold a tank quite easily. They have a missile that leaves a patch of basically autohit hold. If a tank stands in that patch for too long, it will quickly overpower hold protection.

I don't know if I'm just that good, or if the people complaining are either that bad or just unlucky, but I haven't felt like lack of mez protection was really that big of a disadvantage to my support characters. Yes, I DO play more than just melee characters. If I get mezzed, the first thing *I* think is "Damn, I should have been paying closer attention and got him first" instead of "What? I got held? That is SO UNFAIR!"

You're basically trying to convince me that it's a good idea to reduce the amount of mez protection that melee ATs get. And it's not going to work. They need enough mez protection to do their job, and I already gave a couple examples of situations that will overpower their current level of mez protection. If you reduce it a tank, brute, or scrapper will need to have an Empath babysitting them at all times to be at all useful on a team. People are finally getting that the "pure healer" isn't any more necessary than a pure meatshield, why do you want to change it so it is?

I don't know if you came from a game where the tank/healer/dps trinity is in full swing (doesn't seem like it since you're advocating relying less on the tank), but your idea of reducing mez protection for melee ATs will make that playstyle necessary here as well. The fact that it ISN'T necessary is one of the best things about this game.

So, wait...let me make sure I have this straight.

You're suggesting that the devs completely revamp mez protection/resistance for player characters, change the duration of every single mez in the game, and reduce the number of enemies that have mez powers....just to solve a problem you have with a single IO?

Or are you asking so your defender can solo at the same difficulty as your scrapper with the same ease?

You may not be aware of this....but the ATs are not designed to be equally proficient at everything in the game. They never were, nor should they be. Every AT has something it does better than another AT, and that other AT has something it does better as well.

If you really want everything to be equal, I can go along with that. I want my tank to be able to buff his teammates to godlike status. I want my scrapper to be able to completely neuter 8 man spawns. Give me those things and you can have your equal mez protection.

Here's a challenge for you: Name one thing a well built melee AT (of any powerset combination) can do that not a single equally well built support AT (of any powerset combination) can do. This assumes equal skill, and equal budgets for the builds. Just one thing that a tank, scrapper, brute or stalker can do that a controller, defender, corruptor, or mastermind can't.

The only way a Controller will have full time mez protection is with enough recharge to make Indomitable Will permanent. And let's face it, if you have a build with that much recharge (which pretty much requires purples)....you probably aren't going to be having too many problems with mez.

And besides....Fissure is a better AoE than Fireball anyway

No it isn't. If there is enough mez flying around to incapacitate the tank, how long do you think the rest of the team will last once he's out of commission? (having been in that situation before, I can assure you it is between 15 and 30 seconds, depending on how much damage is coming in along with those mezzes)

Melee ATs have such a high amount of mez protection because it is necessary for them to do their job. Unless you think a tank should NEED an Empath, Thermal, Sonic or Pain Dom along to stand a chance in hell of holding the agro of an enemy group that throws a lot of mez.

The only melee AT that a case can be made for getting less is stalkers, and they've been shafted so many times that would just be kicking them when they're down.

Gives you a helluva defiance buff though.

I really only use it for hard targets where there's only one thing for it to shoot at. It's contribution to your damage is really noticeable that way.

You should be able to run them without the Alpha slot...but it will probably be INSANELY difficult without it.

Yep, that's the problem.

I directed someone to look for Kinetic Combats with A Merits, and they reported that 4 were available. The Acc/Dam didn't show up because it is the only uncommon in the set, but the 4 rares did.

Steadfast Protection does the exact same thing in PvE and is much more reasonable. I usually put it in True Grit to save myself a slot in Deflection.

I also like slotting for Max HP as well, which True Grit helps with.

Weird, I used to cast Gun Drone with Hover on all the time. Just have to make sure you're as low as you can possibly go. You can drop a Trip Mine with Hover on too if you do the same thing.

And if you're running a build that benefits from typed defense, you can use Siphon Insight in it for a dirt cheap 3.75% S/L defense. Provided you have the slots to spare, but it might save you from having to slot Boxing with Kinetic Combats to get more defense.

Pretty much this.

However, if you have a Dark Armor and have the power picks and slots to spare, Invoke Panic could stack with Cloak of Fear nicely. I'm planning on doing exactly that on my DA/Ice tank's second build.

Probably not the most effective thing ever, but it could be fun.

You do realize you can collect all of them and swap them out depending on what you need at the moment, right?

I would get as many of them as you can and do exactly that. Sometimes you'll want recharge, sometimes you might want more damage. You can switch them out as you see fit (I believe there is a 5 minute timer on it)

Did you adjust the slider to take into account lower levels?

If you left the slider at level 50 you won't see them because Reactive Armor caps out at level 40.