Wavicle

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I don't think it's underperforming for anyone, some people just don't like playing straight Defense sets. It's not Supposed to be for everyone. All three ATs that get SR can get Dark Melee. All 3 can IO for soft capped Def. All 3 get Elude. You don't need Parry to get good results out of SR.

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It's not that it underperforms on any specific AT. It's that it underperforms:

1) Without IOs
2) At lower levels

Playing a low level SR was one of the most frustrating things I've ever done. It was basically like playing a Brute with no secondary, but still using up endurance anyway. Every enemy was still capable of reducing me to negative defense, and I had no RES, regen, or HP to fall back on. I just simply died to everything. Eventually, somewhere around 35+, SR starts to do better, and can eventually soft-cap fairly easily with IOs, However, the ride and the non-IO path isn't very fun.

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You're nuts.

EVERYONE is weak until SOs. Not All sets develop at the same rate, that is by design. EVERYONE gets super awesome when IOd out.

Your standards are too high for low level toons. Also, you need to l2p if you're dying all the time regardless of what set you use.

You COULD get a Thermal or Sonic or Pain and go remove the Confuse from the Stalker.

No, it happens when there is a surface at the location of the reticle that I can't see. No objects were behind me. I tested it from midair in the Shard.

I don't think it's underperforming for anyone, some people just don't like playing straight Defense sets. It's not Supposed to be for everyone. All three ATs that get SR can get Dark Melee. All 3 can IO for soft capped Def. All 3 get Elude. You don't need Parry to get good results out of SR.

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I know that, but RttC's main purpose is Defensive so let's say it is a special case power and bend the rules to take into account RttC's main function which is the main tanking power of Willpower. It doesn't damage Mobs, just mildly debuffs To-Hit, similar to Invincibility, but in reverse and no where near as good as the Defense that Invincibility can generate.

The new rules may not have been targetted to Nerf Willpower and RttC, but that is what the new rules have done. The powerset is just about useless without the main regens from Willpower. And hey, a Nerf is a Nerf is a Nerf, even if it comes in the guise of a politically correct Nerf.

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No it's not a special case. IT AFFECTS THE ENEMY. Like Chilling Embrace, Invincibility, AAO, and other non-damaging auras. So in PvP it is detoggled by mez like any aura that affects enemies.

Invincibility is also a key power in Invulnerability, as AAO in Shields, what in the hell makes you think Willpower deserves special treatment?

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Invincibility does not effect mobs in any way and as such does not detoggle when you're mezzed. Just to clarify.

[/ QUOTE ]Which is surprising that Taunt effects are not considered "enemy affecting".

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Actually, right after I posted that I realized that I never actually tested that with my Invuln character and so I can't be 100% sure, but that was my understanding was that Taunt is the one exception to the rule and that Invinc does not detoggle. I'll go check in a bit.

EDIT: Confirmed. Invincibility does not detoggle when mezzed. All the effects suppress of course, presumably Including the Taunt.

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I know that, but RttC's main purpose is Defensive so let's say it is a special case power and bend the rules to take into account RttC's main function which is the main tanking power of Willpower. It doesn't damage Mobs, just mildly debuffs To-Hit, similar to Invincibility, but in reverse and no where near as good as the Defense that Invincibility can generate.

The new rules may not have been targetted to Nerf Willpower and RttC, but that is what the new rules have done. The powerset is just about useless without the main regens from Willpower. And hey, a Nerf is a Nerf is a Nerf, even if it comes in the guise of a politically correct Nerf.

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No it's not a special case. IT AFFECTS THE ENEMY. Like Chilling Embrace, Invincibility, AAO, and other non-damaging auras. So in PvP it is detoggled by mez like any aura that affects enemies.

Invincibility is also a key power in Invulnerability, as AAO in Shields, what in the hell makes you think Willpower deserves special treatment?

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Invincibility does not effect mobs in any way and as such does not detoggle when you're mezzed. Just to clarify.

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By the way, RttC was being detoggled by Charged Brawl and Tesla Cage, Haymaker, Dark Blast (I think) all from Lieutenants and none mezzed my Tank at all.

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Not Dark Blast, but Tesla Cage, Charged Brawl, and Haymaker all have short duration mezzes attached to them. Short enough that you might not even notice except for the toggle dropping.

For the record, I agree RttC should be relabelled as defensive, despite the almost entirely irrelevant tohit debuff. If necessary change it to a tiny Defense buff instead.

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... like changing auto turret to a mobile pet?

[/ QUOTE ]You mean like they did 2 or 3 issues ago?

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Yes.

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That didn't break the cottage rule because the basic function of the power didn't change. It's still a summonable pet that does ranged damage, it just follows you now.

Haven't seen another post about this, I already /bugd it ingame.


Sometimes when teleporting onto a surface a long distance away (but not at your maximum range) you will be given a teleport targetting reticle at YOUR position, and clicking will result in a port that goes nowhere. This is new since i15, so far as I know.

Also, I am not sure if most people will notice this bug at all, but I notice it on my blaster because she has Boost Range and fully range slotted Teleport.

I think you can get more than 9 if you have it heavily slotted for Def and hit the max number of mobs with it.

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no AT or powerset is supposed to be the "challenge" build

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Although I have no evidence that the Devs really look at things this way, my perception is that they are OK with some sets actually being more difficult to play than others.

Storm Summoning is a fantastic example of a set that requires actual skill and thought to play effectively.

Force Fields is a decent example of a set that does not require much skill or thought (unless you actually put effort into using your knockback and repel powers).

Note that it is actually the less demanding set that players in this thread have called underperforming (although I suspect it is largely because they only use the Defense powers and think of the knockback/repel powers as 'useless').

Warshades take more skill to play effectively than Peacebringers, and when that effort is put in they yield potentially greater rewards than the PB. THAT I believe is intentional. The devs made it harder to get going with the WS, but you have greater potential if you put in the effort.

That, to me, is strong evidence supporting the assertion that the Devs HAVE made some sets more skill demanding than others.

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Underperforming means that if played with the same degree of skill, that set is less powerful than other sets for the same AT,

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That is not how the Devs define underperformance.


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If you're such an expert, then how exactly do the devs define underperformance?

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I'm not an expert, but I have been paying attention for the last 4 years. Castle has seemed to datamine underperformance/overperformance based PRIMARILY, but not exclusively, on rates of Inf and XP gain over time, solo and teamed. Invuln was shown to be underperforming on THAT basis, as was War Mace, Assault Rifle and several other sets recently.

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Underperforming means that if played with the same degree of skill, that set is less powerful than other sets for the same AT,

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That is not how the Devs define underperformance.

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and for a lot of the sets mentioned here, that's true.

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That is a matter of opinion.

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Everyone's entitled to their (wrong) opinion.

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It's impossible for an opinion to be wrong. That's why they're opinions and not facts.

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However it is very possible for people to miss sarcasm when they see it.

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A lot of lies on that paper anyway. One in the description...Twixt" became perhaps the game's most reviled, abused player because his playing methods were unpopular.

Not many knew this goofball. He played on one server. Mostly PvP. He wasnt the GAMES MOST REVILED ABUSED player. Peckerwood was on one server, in one zone most of the time.

Lier

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^^ This.


Also: Yea, he played like a jerk and disregarded social customs and polite requests and so people treated him like a jerk. Big surprise there. Brilliant research, shocking conclusions. /e sarcasm

You're Ice Armor. You should be building for S/L, F/C, E/N, not M/R/A. Might not make much difference in how you actually slot, but good to pay attention to it.

Drop one of your Earth Mastery powers if you want Taunt.

Or drop Weave, but I guess you don't want to do that.

I thought Energy Absorption allowed Ice Armor to get to or close to the soft cap without much else?

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You don't much AOE control becuase you have 4 of the best single target controls.

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No. You are Mind Control, you lack a PET, and in exchange you are THE BEST at BOTH single target AND AoE Control.


Mesmerize (Mag 3.5, works on bosses and purple triangle AVs)
Dominate
Confuse (Doesn't cause aggro)
Levitate

Mass Hypnosis (Doesn't cause aggro, Huge area)
Terrify (Long duration, short recharge, Huge area)
Total Domination
Mass Confusion (Doesn't cause aggro, Huge area)

Telekinesis (Autohit, with good slotting can be left running for long periods of time, useful for positioning mobs for followup AoEs)

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Ill make it simple.. Things wrong with Fire Armor

Fire Armors resistances are too low compared to other other tanks that have the ability to stack defense AND resistance together to aid their survivability...
Fire Armor has no immobilize or Knockback resistance in its toggles which means more power pools... or expensive IO;s are needed just to do its job.


Fire Armor has no tier 9 like most other tanks which AID its ability to survive. Unstoppable helps you SURVIVE... Hibernate Helps you SURVIVE.. Strength of Will.. One with the Shield... GRANITE... PLEASE..... The fire tank waits until level 32 to get a power that DOESNT help them and which will not be used most of the time they are playing... WOW what a jip...

NO tank should have a tier NINE power that you can only use AFTER you are dead.. Stupid.. Stupid concept.. Rise of the Phoenix should be move to earlier in the set....

Fiery Embrace is far less useful if you are NOT Fire Melee... Which is also bad design... THIS should have been the tier 9 and like one of the above posters said something that engulfs you in tremendous flame.. You get more resistance.. you get more end recovery and you get more damage until it crashes.. It should be something like rage.. THEN your fire tank is the offensive Juggernaut of tanks.. and lower resistance could actually make SENSE..

Fire Tanks today are still paying for the fact that burn was overpowered and then nerfed ( rightfully so because it was over the top) but then the devs went one step further and added a fear affect which scatters mobs and takes foes away from the fire tank which rendered the power useless to many ( including this tank )

Blazing Aura is hellacious on endurance Ive got three end redux in it just to get it down to the cost of a NORMAL toggle... Thats a lot of end for a MINOR damage attack.... and while ICE has the same it also has enegry absorption to help with its end and while Stone has Mud Poys they also slow and immobilize..

Fire Tanks are still paying for the changes that occured with ED, with much lower resistance that make it MANDATORY for you to take tough just to survive.

Temperature Protection is a freaking joke... And I dont care that they added some stuff to a power that I would never take. They should have added that to the toggles I already HAVE which are already lacking Immobilize and Knockback resistance...

I cant think of anything else right now and just making this post has made me upset about all the things that have been wrong about Fire Armor for YEARS now..

We did get a boost to Healing Flames and that helped A LOT... but it still falls far behind other tank sets in terms of survival and I have played them to 50 with the exception of Dark and Stone.. and I built my wife's Stone/SS tank and I have watched her tank two and three AV's at a time and survive...

Fire Armor is definitely underperforming...

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Everyone's entitled to their (wrong) opinion.

Ever hear of a little power called Consume?

And you'd rather wait longer to get FE so that you can get the self rez earlier? Yea, that makes a lot of sense.




Also, QR: Taser can be stacked on a boss just by slotting it, you don't need additional stun powers.


Almost every set and power mentioned in this thread is NOT underperforming when used properly. L2P people.

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no hard controls with Mind but mind is strong damage. What I think pairs really well with mind is Rad or Trick Arrow, with TA being better then the 2. nice holds from those secondaries to overcome Minds main weakness.

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This poster clearly doesn't know anything about Mind Control.

LOL @ some of the answers in this thread.

SR? LOL, underperforming...right.

Icy Assault? LOL again.

Thermal outperforms Sonic? WRONG, try again.

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I just wanted to know if other players were hating the AE farm fiasco on Freedom as much as me and would love to transfer off the server if it were free.

[/ QUOTE ]Kinda belongs in the official farming thread, if that's the case. Yeah, some things about Freedom are annoying, but hey, that's all there is to it.

I know there's another game where you can get free transfers to a server which is... I think, 50% less populated than the one you left? But that gamae doesn't have cross-server economies, for example. I don't think it's a necessary thing to do here, given how easy it can be to level someone up and get through the game here. I mean, your mains, your billion-inf characters are probably worth the cash to transfer, but it's not like shifting the rest over is that big a deal. You know? Twenty bucks to move your two primaries to somewhere you'd like 'em better. You've probably paid more for meals.

(This has been brought to you by the 'Talen providing useful advice to people who says he never posts anything useful' commission. I get bonus points if he has me on ignore. I get bonus bonus points if he has me on ignore and replies anyway.)

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I had you on ignore once upon a time Talen, so you should get like 1/2 a point. Anyways, I agree with you. I will likely transfer my top 2 characters to Justice and reroll the rest. At least it will give me something to do untill brutes get claws or Dual Pistols comes out!

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Let me be the first to welcome you to Justice......the Unofficial BEST server.

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Never found this [psi attacks] to be a big problem on my Spines/Regen Scrapper.

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I MAINTAIN, *I* never found it to be a big problem.

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[censored]... but you're mutha'[censored]' Wavicle!

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It's true. Although, my Scrapper is actually mutha'[censored]' Sticklebat. Wavicle is a blaster.

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Never found this to be a big problem on my Spines/Regen Scrapper. Psi doesn't do any more Damage to a Regen than any other kind of attack, and things never lived long enough to be much of a threat.

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The -rech 2ndary effect. Not the actual psi dmg. Psi dmg is only an issue when mog is being used for an "o crap" moment. Any other time, its just like any other attack. Actually, it may less if cw and dw are 6 slotted.

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Yes, I KNOW what you MEANT.

I MAINTAIN, *I* never found it to be a big problem.

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Yeah. I mean, I have it and I like it, but I don't want to break it out in teams because the animation is long (is it long? It feels long) and the effect isn't easily dealt with.

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Coddle incompetent teammates and you become part of the problem. :P

Never found this to be a big problem on my Spines/Regen Scrapper. Psi doesn't do any more Damage to a Regen than any other kind of attack, and things never lived long enough to be much of a threat.