Umbral

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Your Fire Blast numbers are high since you are not properly adding the DoT of Fire and are overestimating its effect. For example, you have Blaze base average damage listed on your charts as 188.9, when the average should be 170.5.

See here for calculating DoT of Fire Blast DoTs

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This. Don't always trust mid's for complex calculations. Or just use the in-game numbers they seem accurate.

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I actually changed all of those numbers on my personal Mids' database to account for proper DoT calc.

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Were the correct numbers used for the results though? I saw the same thing Strato did that fire was being overstated by quite a bit.

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Those correct numbers were being used for the results. Fire is just that crazy thanks to Blaze.

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what about the toxic DoT from night widows?

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Depending on the power, it's either a flat value (the ones that don't have a chance to deal damage) or the reduced value (the ones that only have a chance of dealing the damage per tick).

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Why would you come in here and call me a liar and try to tell me what I really want?

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I'm calling you a liar because it's not a different mode of travel like you're suggesting. It's the same mode of travel with lower numbers. It's exactly the same as many players already get with Fitness + Leaping.

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There is no trickery going on here. I want exactly what I said I want for the reasons I stated. 99% of my characters are natural origin and I would really like a natural travel power.

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Natural does not mean natural human, nor do any of the travel powers explicitly involve a specific origin. The "natural travel power" argument holds about as much water as a colander anyway. Combat Jumping allows you to leap more than twenty feet into the air from standing. That's only slightly less "natural human" than jumping 50 feet in the air anyway: both are out of the realm of reality so you might as well simply accept the reality of the game rather than trying to get an equally unrealistic power put in specifically because you don't like the current options.

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I'd also like some other cool options like i mentioned, but I'd use the natural option from my OP the most. Period.

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And those other modes of transport would actually be different modes of transport. The one you're asking for is simply a minorly modified jumping transport with fancy new pool powers that fit your personal concept more closely than the existing pool powers.

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Raluu (sp?)

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Rularuu

Try this build on for size. The endurance is sustainable and the damage should be more than enough to keep you happy. The secret to survivability will be to keep at least 1 Parry up at all times.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Level 50 Natural Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Broad Sword
Secondary Power Set: Regeneration
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Fitness
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Hack -- Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(A), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(3), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(5), Hectmb-Dam%(5), Achilles-ResDeb%(7)
Level 1: Fast Healing -- Heal-I(A)
Level 2: Reconstruction -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(7), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Dct'dW-Heal(9), Dct'dW-Rchg(11)
Level 4: Quick Recovery -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-End%(11), EndMod-I(13)
Level 6: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(13)
Level 8: Parry -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(15), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(17), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), LkGmblr-Rchg+(19)
Level 10: Dull Pain -- Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(21), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(21), Dct'dW-Heal(23), Dct'dW-Rchg(23)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(36), Zephyr-Travel(40), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(48), Zephyr-ResKB(50)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(15), Zephyr-ResKB(25)
Level 16: Integration -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(25), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(27)
Level 18: Whirling Sword -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(27), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(29), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), Oblit-%Dam(31)
Level 20: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(31), RechRdx-I(33)
Level 22: Boxing -- Stpfy-Acc/Rchg(A), Stpfy-EndRdx/Stun(33), Stpfy-Acc/EndRdx(33), Stpfy-Stun/Rng(34), Stpfy-Acc/Stun/Rchg(34), Stpfy-KB%(34)
Level 24: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 26: Disembowel -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(36), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Mako-Dam%(37)
Level 28: Instant Healing -- Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(39), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Dct'dW-Heal(39), Dct'dW-Rchg(40)
Level 30: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 32: Head Splitter -- Armgdn-Dmg/Rchg(A), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(42), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Armgdn-Dam%(42), Achilles-ResDeb%(43)
Level 35: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 38: Moment of Glory -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(43), RechRdx-I(45), RechRdx-I(45)
Level 41: Focused Accuracy -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(43), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(45), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(46), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(46), GSFC-Build%(46)
Level 44: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(48), EndMod-I(48)
Level 47: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(50), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Resilience -- Empty(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit

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shhhhh

only those with an '04 reg date have been told about the new space zones....

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Which one of us told you?

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it just really made me wish we had some more travel options.

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Because running and jumping slightly faster and higher than usual is actually different enough than Super Jump and/or Super Speed to make it a different travel option? It's not a new travel option. It's a new travel power pool that you want because you're not happy with how you can run and jump around already.

My guess would be that the variable that tells the salvage transfer function how many to start off suggesting transferring stores an integer rather than a percent by storing the number of items in the previous stack. The bar interface simply gauges the specific quantities and percentages after.

I honestly wouldn't mind if it defaulted to maximum either though, but it doesn't look to be how it was programmed. I'm not entirely sure that it would be particularly difficult to do since, even if they wanted to keep the system the same, they could just make the default number 11 (or any other number larger than it's possible to stack in WW) and it would work the exact same way.

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Ah, I see what you mean now. Great, there are a lot of those that work that way, aren't there? At least I did my nuke calcs right (.75 for the 1st, .5 for the 2nd, etc)...

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The only ones I know of that do that are the Fire DoTs that are due to Fire Blast's and Fire Melee's secondary effect DoT. I don't believe there are any other percent chance of occuring DoTs.

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I'd always thought that the SS attacks did less damage than equivalent recharge attacks in sets like Axe and War Mace, and that this balanced against Rage. Looking at red Tomax I see that I was wrong.

SS does have smaller faster attacks than these two weapon sets, and so less burst damage (until we get to KO Blow *cough*) so maybe that was the original idea?

Axe (for example) is burst damage, SS is DPS?

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SS is all smashing damage which is why Rage is ok. Keep in mind War Mace and War Axe were still being ignored the last time they touched Rage.

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Actually, you're both wrong. Damage type has absolutely nothing to do with the way the various powers are balanced, except as a basic heuristic. If this were true, powers like Electrical Blast and Fire Blast, which have the least resisted damage types, would follow a different power formula than lethal and smashing damage sets. The powers in Super Strength follow the power formula (which determines recharge and endurance based on damage or vice verse, depending on which value they're starting with), so Rage isn't factored in there either.

Where Rage is nominally factored in is in the actual powers themselves from an actual play standpoint. Rage is incredibly powerful, as is KO Blow, but, if you begin looking at the DPA of the remaining attacks in the set, they're noticeably sub par. All of the powers still stay true to the power formula insofar as none of their recharges or endurance costs are higher than they're supposed to be, but they all have longer than usual animations which severely diminishes the actual DPS of the set. Haymaker is halfway decent, but Jab and Punch are utter rubbish.

This is important because, thanks to KO Blow's huge base damage, it's recharge is substantially longer, which means that the remaining attacks are going to have a greater effect upon DPS than KO Blow would otherwise (such as if the damage were less but the animation were faster giving the attack the same DPA but better recharge and endurance).

There isn't really a hard and fast formulaic point as to how Rage is factored in. This is one place where the devs' old habit of balancing a set based upon heuristics rather than formulas (especially when the formulas don't account for all variables) worked out quite well. Super Strength isn't too horribly powerful because, while it's got a couple gems, the rest of the set is pretty close to garbage when compared to what everyone else gets to play around with.

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I like the axe werebear idea. I like inv more than WP for this concept though. Bears just don't seem like they would have the healing that wp gives. Claws/inv on a brute would be cool too.

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It depends heavily on what you interpret the classical resistance to damage to be, especially where silver and other special materials are concerned. Generally, lycanthropes are possible to injure with normal weapons, but the damage just doesn't stick around long enough. It requires a silver weapon to leave a lasting injury. Willpower would fulfill this rather well.

And then there's the issue of psychic damage. Do you want your werebear to be weak to psychic damage, which could be explained as having his inner human self still be somewhere in there, overriding his bear self? That would do quite well with Invuln, especially if you simply explain the nominal regeneration away as "instant regeneration" that simply acts just like the resistance/defense game mechanics. Otherwise, you could go with Willpower and claim that the animalistic nature of the bear that takes over when he "goes bear" protects his mind through sheer rage and bestial fury.

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Are you talking about damage scales? I just use base numbers at 50. For blaze, my damage is 132.63 + (0.8 * (5 * 14.08)), so an 80% chance for the DoT (5 ticks of 14.08) to land.

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No, we're not. We're referring to how you're adding the DoT incorrectly. It's not an 80% chance for the 5 ticks of 14.08. Each tick has an 80% chance to occur and allow the DoTs to continue to occur. The first tick has an 80% chance to occur, The second tick has a 64% chance to occur, and so on.

The correct damage for the DoT is actually (14.08 * .8) + (14.08 * .8 * .8) + (14.08 * .8 * .8 * .8) + (14.08 * .8 * .8 * .8 * .8) + (14.08 * .8 * .8 * .8 * .8 * .8) = 37.865, not (14.08 * .8 * 5) = 56.32, like Mids lists it.

If you're going for a D&D inspired werebear, they've traditionally been one of the few good lycanthropes. They were also avid weapon users. Axe/WP would fulfill that concept quite well.

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The warning we get is actually the Rikti forcibly dropping the War Walls so that they can actually get into the city zone. If they didn't drop the War Walls, they'd never be able to get inside.

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Why wouldn't they be able to get inside? It's not like the war walls have a ceiling. It's open to the sky.

Seems kind of like "shooting fish in a barrel" if the rikti wanted to start dropping BIG bombs down on the city.

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I think the basic idea is that the War Walls actually do have a ceiling on them or simply go up too high for the Drop Ships (which may not be equipped for low pressure flight) to go over.

Remember: the War Walls were put up to keep the Rikti out. They're not going to be that simple to circumvent.

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I think we should do 3 categories if we do AoE:

AoE while solo (3-5 mobs)

AoE average (5-10 mobs)

AoE max (10-cap mobs)

the big problem I see is the target cap for cones and TAoEs being vastly different...

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The problem is that those numbers wouldn't even be particularly accurate since a number of AoEs affect a maximum of 16 targets. Just check out Explosive Arrow, M30 Grenade, Ball Lightning, Short Circuit, Fire Ball, and any other real AoE (re: not a cone). Most of the nominal AoE attacks that Blaster use are weighted for 16 targets, rather than 10, which is the nominal max for cones. Using those numbers, AoEs, which have a substantial max target advantage, wouldn't have any advantage, even though cones receive a numerical advantage to make up for it thanks to the AoE balance formula (I don't have it on hand, but I know Arcanaville does).

Honestly, if we're going off of targets, I'd automatically assume that there are simply enough to make all of your attacks potentially max out their possible targets and the only issue would then be the ability for you to actually get that number of targets together and how long it would actually take you to get them grouped up in such a way. This gives a rather distinct advantage to the sphere attacks, which stands to reason given actual gameplay, though it doesn't really help us because it difficult to simply apply an arbitrary value to how difficult it is to line up 10 targets in a 30 degree 40' long cone to get the most out of Buckshot (30' isn't much). I guess it would be possible simply to give an arbitrary percent of targets in the area for various group sizes based exclusively on a cencensus for each of those powers that maxes out at whatever the max for the power is, but that's a decent bit of work and a rather substantial amount of debate.

The Scrapper debates concerning the worth of Shadow Maul are demonstrative of this problem. Some players that aren't exactly skilled are amazed when they can get 2 targets with Shadow Maul, still giving it excellent DPA and mind-boggling DPE and DPR (Damage per Recharge). Other players, like myself, that are used to working Shadow Maul for the full 5 targets all the time and do so with little to no real effort, completely disagree with those people. Player skill matters so much in the realm of target acquisition and PbAoE target optimization with slim/shallow areas (much less slim and shallow like Shadow Maul) that it's incredibly hard to get a solid and reliable value for the number of targets that are hit by any specific, skill influenced power.

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I still think that they'd have more success if they attacked without warning. Letting us know five minutes beforehand so we can all get on teams and prepare for the invasion doesn't work.

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The warning we get is actually the Rikti forcibly dropping the War Walls so that they can actually get into the city zone. If they didn't drop the War Walls, they'd never be able to get inside.

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I'm not a number cruncher, but I have a question on the Tank/Brute debate you guys have going here.

Wouldn't it be better to give the Tanker a version of fury that upped their damage resistance not damage dealing capabilities? Yeah, I know tankers are super hard to kill as is, but that is their job, they TAKE hits, a lot of hits, and in the process of this they get to hit back.

A Brutes job is to GIVE hits, a lot of hits, and in the process of this they get hit back. As such, the more swinging going on around a brute, the harder they hit as that is their job. Melee damage monkey, that because of the needs Red side, needs to be able to take a licking. But ultimately, a brute survives a fight by killing everything around it.

I'm a big fan of not nerfing one to restore balance, but bringing everything to parity. If say Brutes are out performing Scrappers and Tanks. Scrappers and tanks should get a bit of an increase while Brutes get a bit of a decrease. Yes this is a nerf, but a smaller one while also raising the under-performers.

I also though, don't see why a Tanker should be dealing more damage because there are more people on him hitting him. I understand fury was originally supposed to be a Tank thing, but I also agree with the thematic reasons they never gave it to tankers.

However, upping a tankers damage resist or whatever could keep the survivability edge for them beyond a brute being at 44.2% fury or whatever it is.

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The better solution in my eyes would be to simply reduce the Brute +dam cap. So many people that defend Brute balance as it stands are fond of bringing up the fact that it's not all that common to reach it, so it wouldn't noticeably affect them but it would still bring their peak performance to a more equivalent level. The other option (and the one I prefer since I compare them to Scrappers more than Tankers) would be to reduce their damage scalar a tiny bit (to .70 at 50 which is a 10% reduction). This would address the equivalence to Scrapper damage assuming easy Fury capabilities while accounting for the innate survivability advantage (8% simply from higher hit points) just from having more hit points (and a greater hit point cap that can't be reached while solo so +hp buffs are always useful).

Scrappers: 1.125 * 1.1 * 5 = 6.1875
Brute: .75 * 8.5 = 6.375
Brute (750% damage cap): .75 * 7.5 = 5.625
Brute (.675 scalar): .675 *8.5 = 5.95

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It's all about watching the buff/debuff bar for incoming hits and, like I said before, timing MoG or heals.

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What exactly does that mean? Do attacks with debuffs appear on the bar before they actually hit and do damage?

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No, it's knowing when you've got so many debuffs on you that you're going to be wanting to burn a heal or MoG because more damage is incoming.

The general tactics I use (and I assume Val uses as well) is to simply figure out how fast and when damage is coming and tailor my click powers to those uses. Once you learn the timing on damage (and yes, learning specific timing is important; lots of AVs have something approaching an attack string), you can figure out that you don't need a heal at some points and do at others because the next few attacks will be pretty weak. Instant Healing is pretty much the "I want to focus on beating their faces for the next minute" button, especially when you've got DP up.

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I believe defenders really need a damage boost because IMO they should be better ranged fighters. I am concerned that with going rogue the defender will become an afterthought for the Corruptor.

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0.550

http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Damage_Scale

Defenders will become an after thought once Going Rogue comes out. Except for a few non-proliferated sets like Empathy and Forcefields, defenders will be replaced by redeemed Corruptors.

It's not just the damage scale that will cause that. It's the crappy Defender inherent.

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I'm pretty sure the ranged modifier is 0.65, not 0.55
The melee and ranged modifiers are definitely different. This is exactly the reason why, back when we were still using BI as a damage measure, the BI's on Defender attacks were always higher than their counterparts. The low brawl damage led to high BIs.

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This would be true sirrah. City of Data is more accurate and reliable than the wiki, and, from looking at it, I think it's obvious that that page hasn't been updated in a while.

Check out this page. You have to actually divide through in order to figure out the actual scalar, but it actually shows how scalars change through the levels (because they're scalars, not simple modifiers!).

Knowing right off the bat that Widows have a 1.0 ranged damage scalar (or just cross referencing it with a known melee damage scalar, which is identical, of 1.0 for Stalkers) value of 55.610 at 50 (using any level 20 or above will generate the same comparative scalar) divide the level 50 Defender damage scalar value of 36.147 by the 1.0 scalar (55.610) will render a scalar value of .65. Controllers only have a .55 (30.586 / 55.610), though they get containment which gives them a easily achieved 1.1 damage scalar for all of their non-pet attacks.

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think we should move onto AoE next, or would it just be silly?

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AoE would be interesting, though AoE attack strings are almost impossible outside of the purview of prim/sec calculations, plus, we'd have to address how to gauge cone width, AoE radius, along with number of targets. Might be interesting, but it wouldn't be completely valid, mainly because we'd have to assign arbitrary values to most of those variables.

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Your Fire Blast numbers are high since you are not properly adding the DoT of Fire and are overestimating its effect. For example, you have Blaze base average damage listed on your charts as 188.9, when the average should be 170.5.

See here for calculating DoT of Fire Blast DoTs

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This. Don't always trust mid's for complex calculations. Or just use the in-game numbers they seem accurate.

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I actually changed all of those numbers on my personal Mids' database to account for proper DoT calc.

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[u]Brutes[u] only become noticeably imbalanced when their caps are actually considered because they're capable of overshadowing or equalling both Scrappers and [u]Tankers[u] in every single way at the same time.

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Uhm...

>.>
<.<

I would HOPE that Brutes = Brutes. Though how Brutes > Brutes or Brutes < Brutes...

My brain just fell out...



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Maybe he's talking about Brutes versus Energy Aura Brutes...

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Quiet both of you. Editting the original post now.

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I don't know how one would earn these badges, but I'd like to suggest differant names to better suit the heroic/villainous theme.

"One-Man Army"
You've stood up against impossible odds and defended the city alone, proving you are a one-man army.

"Lone Wolf"
From the day you broke out of the Zig, you've never depended on anyone but yourself, a true lone wolf.

Just my 2 inf.

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Lone Wolf could apply to both heroes and villains rather well.

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Even though Shield powerset is still new in a way, its definately lacking in the defense department compared to other AT's. Ive respected my build up to 7 times now to just to find a happy medium and no way I build it, it still lacks alot.

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Well, if you've respec'd your build 7 times already and none of them have been decent, you may want to actually get some build help rather than just complain about it because plenty of people on these very forums have no problem getting */Shield to perform incredibly well.

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One with shield is pretty much useless in PVP and barely useable in PVE. The Risk VS reward using it is void. Whats the point of a greater recovery if you loose it all when it drops?! It last no where near as long as moment of glory, elude, or any other Scrapper secondary uber power.

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You do realize that MoG lasts all of 15 seconds, right? The point of OwtS isn't that it grants extra recovery. It grants a rather substantial buff to absolutely everything you've got except for defense (which you should have in decent quantities already). More HP, more resistance, everything. The crash is actually rather minor when you look at what the normal tier 9s have to deal with (Curious? Check out Unstoppable and and tell us how you feel about losing nearly all of your health and all of your endurance).

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In PVP Against all odds, its able to be detoggled by a simple taunt. It generates so much agro in PVE that its almost useless. Grant Cover is useless in PVP due to its a group only buff, not to mention Against all Odds and Active Defense cant be slotted with IO Sets.

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Right. You're angry because your AoE +dam aura isn't making you kick [censored] and take names in PvE? You want to be 73h 4w350m3 at PvE and PvP don't you? Go and talk to all of the */WPs out there that have the exact same thing happen to them concerning a much more integral power: RttC. Of course, you could simply realize that some powers and powersets aren't really optimal for PvP, but that would take too much work wouldn't it?

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Ive been playing Shield steadily since it was released, and even tho I love the look and the feel of the set, I'm really starting to become disheartend due to the constant let down of the lack of "uberness" feel.

Its really bad that this set has 0 choice but to dip in to power pools just to make things work for it. if it wasnt for Tough, Weave, Health, Stamina, and stealth slotted in my build with Def/Resist Sets this AT would be utterly pointless and just for looks.

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Because a set that grants significant additional damage through a high powered +dam aura and a powerful internal AoE, not to mention diversified mitigation methods is horribly underpowered. You do realize that, to account for */Shield's increased offensive contribution, Castle balanced the set to be a defense based equivalent of */Fire, right? Only, because it's based off of defense rather than resistance, it's actually a bit better once you dump some money in to it.

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Its about time for this power to get some love already instead of giving other AT's that are already ahead of the curve, whether it be Villains or Heros, MORE power and attacks and animations. Im still continueing to play it just because I like the style of it, but my patience is wearing thin with getting ganked in PVE and PVE. oh and just for the record, before anyone asks, YES im slotted out from decent to best IO sets. I dont plan on quitting or rerolling a different toon, just ready for something to happen for this AT other than let downs.

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I'm very curious as to why you think */Shield is underpowered beyond you own ability to build to its strengths or play in a manner that would actually cater to them. Post a build, get some advice from the players that have regularly demonstrated the incredible power in */Shield before you start making blanket accusations that are regularly disproven on this very board.

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They have given us many good things.
Are we happy yet? No. Why would you expect this to be any different?

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Actually, I'm quite happy with the game at the moment and don't really have any specific demands for what sets should be proliferated (and, in fact, have a number of requests for powersets that shouldn't be proliferated). I'd personally prefer them to put a little more emphasis on new content than powersets with interesting playstyle variants, but that's me.