Thundorn

This tell is sent to me regularly. And usually i oblige, however im starting to lose my hair now from frustration.

When someone tells me they need a tank, (and please stop me if im wrong here) i automatically asume that they need someone to hold aggro for them. Hoever based on the number of teams i have politely left recently, im starting to wonder if some people actually know what they need a tank for. Im talking about lvl 35ish teams here as well so its not like im dealing with complete newbies here.

It amuses me that after joining a team after being told they desperately need a tank, they wait for me to run toward the first mob, and before i even get there one of the followign occurs.

1. A blue flash as the mob is sent flying in all directions by the energy blaster who could hold his finger off that button.
2. the mob is wormholed somewhere completely different by the grav trolelr, who ironically was the one who told me they needed a tank in the first place.
3. The impatient fire blaster legs it ahead of me and uses fireball and promptly dies.

and other occurences of this variety...

maybe i should change my search comment to:

Tank who tanks. If you dont want me to tank or dont know what tanking is you need not invite me. Once again for clarity, I TANK

theres nothing more annoying then listening to people whine about me not holding aggro when the mob is about as scattered as it can possibly be because of people lack of understanding of how aggro works.

i couls go on for a long time on this rant, as there seems to be an inumerate amount of people at this level who dont get the whole "i cant taunt every badguy in the room when they are scattered everywhere" thing

interesting side note.. Pulling.

Blasters can pull, of course they can, i dont mind playing wicket keeper and catching the baddies before they get to the blaster. HOWEVER if i say "pulling" and taunt a few then take cover, imagine my surprise when i see a snipe attack fly past my head... at a different mob... OO blimey, now weve got twice the amount of bad guys we want coming in.

Anyway, the Actual point of this post, is more a question really. Do i just leave that team and risk becoming a solo hermit because i expect too much of the people im teaming with, or do i risk being accused of an arrogant know it all and try to teach them?

Theres been a couple of occasions where task forces have gone adrift because of this problem. tried doin manti the other day and the highest member of the team was a lvl 34 fire/kin who though he was awesome, after the second team wipe the empaths got so fed up with trying to keep him alive when he seemed to be trying to run teh oposite direction to the rest of the team, that they actually left him on the deck, and he eventually left.

The technique you are referring to is called Kiting. and that doesnt work with every AV/GM. Blazing aura is a very good taunt aura. Ok it needs an accuracy check, but with 2 acc, 2 end red and 1 taunt enhances it would be quite feasable to tank an AV/GM with it. I always take taunt as I like to have the ability to get aggro at a distance for when the squishies are getting attacked but not having it doesnt make you a bad person, I certainly wouldnt recommend deleting a toon just because you dont have it. Holding aggro is easy enough, plus with gauntlet now working its easier still. Try telling an Ice tanker with CE that he cant hold aggro.

No doubt at all that a tanks main job is to hold aggro, but thats not really what this thread is about. Its about builds that are so rediculous that they cant really be classed as tanks at all.

DDT's.... the bane of my existence

energy melee on scrappers.... hmm perhaps if they designed a new enrgy based set specifically for scrappers. And by that i mean not just changing the names of the powers but actually designing a new power set altogether. I only say that because the line between stalkers and scrappers is already kind of blurred (Bracing myself for a damn goood flaming to) and i would like to see the gap widen a touch. really i would like to see the power sets separate a bit more across the board.

Elemental damage based sets would be interesting. But the thought of my hands turning to a block of ice every time i swipe at a bad guy doesnt sit right somehow. Perhaps a power set based on devine power as opposed to the netherworld.

I remember.....

My other big tanking influence was Buff Boy, who sadly is taking a short break from CoX.

He was the man who got me interested in fire tanks to start with. Watching him bound across the map with his fire/ss tanker was... well quite scary actually. His attack chain was simple but effective and good luck tryin to keep up.

Other tank influences apart from shann and Buff..... (this is starting to sound like im accepting an award) oo hang on ive digressed from the OP completely now...

Yea what she said... =D

Kind of a spew off from another thread but not really that bothered just now its 6am.

My chums and i have started a project with defenders, based on cheerleaders. Formed a new sg clled cheerleaders with tude or somthing like that. anyway we came to build out base and noticed one thing. Beds... unless you want a ropey looking cot, or a torture bed, your sleeping on the floor. I mean hows my girls supposed to have pillow fights and stuff if they havent got a bed to put their cuddle toys on, in fact wheres the cuddly toys?

Anyway i have kind of digressed a bit. What i would like to see, is more options for decore and more decorative items, even blank walls, floors and ceilings would be cool so i can have bright pink walls and nice red carpet (urp!)

Blank walls would also facilitate the ability to make my chillout room in my main base look less like a dodgy backstreet pub.

where was i going with this post again??

Oh aye, the handful of styles we have at present are just lovely, but could we have something more... i dunno... domestic. that way when i am bored i can get my sg into the base, enter build mode and pretend im playing The Sim's

Nice one Shannon. Ill say one thing. BAck when i used to play my empath, i learned two things very quickly. Firstly heal other is an awesome power, saves having to stand next to other people and get blatted, an emergency run in-heal aura-run out is easy enough to do. Secondly, Dont stand anywhere near the tank unless you like being on yer behind most of the fight. Having said that its not too clever to stand next to those pesky blaster either as they have a tendency to draw lovely aoe's too. Gosh Darn nemesis grenadier just bounced me half way across the room!!.

Ok not all squishies take heed of this and regularly get theemselves into "another fine mess" but the point is, lots of people moan about waiting the extra two seconds it takes for the tank to consolidate aggro, when its really for their benefit to do so.

On the other hand sometimes i regret showing newer members of the Tanking world how to herd properly as they get carried away and insist on herding every mob. Point blank is sometimes more effective, as long as the rest of the team bear in mind that the tank should be the front man who see's more clearly whats coming round the corner, how close the next mob is etc etc.

Shannon has a good viewpoint on tanking and i totally agree with her. Im the one that should be getting hit nobody else, call it attention seeking or whatever, and i will do everything in my power to keep it that way. Some poeple on the other hand just cant be helped. Try telling that cocky scrapper who thinks he is invincible cos he has hardly taken any damage yet not to aggro the other mob... not always a pretty conversation

as always Damz you are the light that brightens my day

You are of course completely right. I wouldnt take a fire kin into pvp, Mainly becasue i am pants at PvP.

I think my main problem is i build bright glowie toons and always attack the toughest oponent first. Mind you it dont help when i turn off Player names so i cant see whos what. If i had a penny for every time id run after a Mastermind in Warburg only to be nailed by what later turned out to be two brutes cunningly concealed in amongst the pets, (i say cunningly concealed, what i actually mean is just kind of standing there and me not paying attention), i would have... well about 5p actaully.

sigh....

Never said it annyoed me, nor did i say anyone was wrong for making a fire kin.....

what i said wasa someone please come up with a new idea for a farm toon as fire kins are getting boring...

im not attacking anyone for having fire kins, so theres no real need to jump on the defensive.

I never said i disagreed with farming, powerlevelling or anything else.

Maybe I should have written my OP like this instead so as to avoid upsetting people who obviously took offense...

Hey Arent fire kins Awesome I love mine sooo much i dont play anything else now. But wouldnt it be great if someoone thought of a new build to farm with so i could choose between two farmers when i PL everyone..

Hope thats better

Not realy that contradictory globey If you read my post i acknowledge that fact that Fire kin Pwns and also that i have myself one which i on occasion use for farming.

What i am saying in this post is that its about time someone came up with a new flavour cos every tom dick and harry now have fire kins and its gettin dull.

And as for being the ablsolute bext at farming, i wouldnt go that far, im pretty sure that with a bit of imagination someone could come up with something equally as good. Not me of course cos i lack imagination and all that.

Not to mention Fire/kin sucks against anything with stuns etc etc. Even with IO build yer still gonna get slapped about if you take on freaks.

*Ignores the cows eating the carpet*

I know this may be a daft question. And please dont spam with posts about how much they suck, but has anyone ever tried, and succeeded in making a decent pvp Kheld? i never see them in pvp zones and ive always wondered.

lmao shannon. i should have seen that comin

Hehe Naw shann, im pretty sure i teamed with you a looong time ago with the Black Rose on yer Inv tanker. I was on what was then my baby empath. Based on your performance back then i would say its unlikely.

Fire tankers a quite often the source of my amusement, best way to describe my favourite comedy build is to tell you what they DIDNT have.

No BA
No Taunt
No HF
No Acro
No Plasma Shield

They used Hover to resist KB (which they left on throughout each mission, i made a few cups of tea that day)

They explained that they didnt feel the nees to take taunt or BA because Gauntlett drew all the attention to them anyway, how upset was he when my fireball left him stood there picking his nose while i ran like forest away from the incoming wall of death. (yep i should know better but its either draw aggro or leach)

That was a good one that
Optimist that i am, i hung around waiting to be amazed. I was waiting a long time.

The streets of paragon are blazing with the aura of a thousand hot feet.

Not begging for nerfs, or asking poeple to stop farming, or even people to stop power levelling, all im asking for is PLEASE GOD SOMEONE THINK OF A NEW FARM TOON. Ironically My Fire Kin Thundorn FoTM was built as a joke back when i could see this happening. And i got quite addicted to the destructive power of the mighty Fire Kin.

Fire kins are awesome but they arent the only way to do it. and not necessarily the fastest. Food for thought me thinks, before you decide to follow the rest of the sheep.

High Mission xp from PvP zones is cool, a nice way to earn a bit of cheeky extra xp and all that, but it does mean that you get a lot of "Im here for the XP!" types into the zone. I like the idea of a FFA lvl 50 zone, without badges, npc's or AV's would be better, so that the sole purpose of entering the zone is to have a brawl.

By raising or removing the aggro cap, you would kind of be taking a lot of the fun out of the game for other players, also i think the darwinism factor of current tank builds would be somewhat diminished. By that i mean that a lot of people build tankers and badly, currently natural selection takes its toll on these lesser tankers and they find themselves having to respec to build an actual tank, some do inevitably slip though the net of course, Ive teamed at lvl 50 with some truly terrible tankers.

Point is that MOST people by the latter levels have learned what a tanks limitations are and unless they are after debt badges wont aggro extra mobs. (im not just directing this at scrappers =) )

Being a lover of all things tanker, i am always interested to see the power choices that other people take when they build tankers, particularly fire tankers as they are my fave,

I have in my time seen some truly inspired builds, and then some erm... shall we say less impressive ones. I am always keen to see if there unique builds do okay or not and i do try not to poke other peoples builds but some have been pure comedy and watching them erm.. i guess you could just about call it tanking... has been a real source of amusement.

Just wanted to see, (without naming and shaming) what the funniest builds that people have seen are...

Im not the greatest or the most frequent pvper in the world ill admit. But i agree that RV is a pain. its nice to be able to pvp at lvl 50 without having to [censored] about with the arena but i think the turrets spoil the pvp action. you enter the zone and do a whoall check, find there loads of ppl in the zone. attck one and spend the next twenty minutes getting flamed because they dont want to pvp they are farming turrets, or chasing the AV's for the badges.

It all depends on what you plan to do with your tank. i.e to use Bloody bay or not. My first fire tank, Igniter Fire/EM i took tough early because in bloody bay theres just too few ways of avoiding the Assassin strike happy Stalkers, so the only thing you can do is be hard enough to take the high dmg output they have. that combined with healing flames and hasten, you are pretty much able to stand there and laugh at a stalker all day.

However if Bloody Bay hadnt been part of my plan for this toon i would have left Tough until about lvl 32 ish also

Global Name : @Thundorn
Server: Union
City of Heroes
PvP Characters:
Thundorn
Thundorn Igniter
Type of PvP: Zonal, bit of arena
Can be contacted: @Thundorn, @Thundron II, @Thundorn the Third
Times on: Evenings and Weekends
Timezone: British Standard Time

Bit New to PvP relatively speaken, never really given it much time, so still learning but all in all not doin too bad

I would say tough is a wise pick. It is end heavy until SO's of course but then what tanker toggle isnt. It does make a lot of difference. As long as you balance your build just right with Healing flames slotted 3 heal 3 recharge and hasten you can become pretty damn hard to kill in both pvp and pve. Weave is another underestimated power IMO. people look at the numbers and go EEEWWWW thats weak, but again its those few extra % that can save your behind in a tight spot. Not to mention that Weave is resistance to EVERYTHING which until You get a full IO build means you actually get some PSI resistance and of course toxic which will save you from having to stack Healing flames when fighting hydra and so on.

so for a claws regen scrapper im pretty knackered unless i manage to de-toggle it then?

|Ok ive been trawling the us forums trying to find out about Acrobatics vs KB. There are a lot of numbers being thrown around and not much in the way of conclusive figures. Or at least none i can make sense of. So im asking if anyone has any better worded or more concrete numbers. The best i can get from the us is that acro gives 10000% res to KB, which would mean that it makes you all but invincible to KB. But im almost certain that ive been KB'd with acro at some point in the past but cant remember by what.

So in short if im trying to knockback someone ith acro, what am i gonna have to do?

Please SOMEONE do something. The School of thought that tanks are actually supposed to tank is diluted enough as it is.

Prime example. Today i was playing on my AR blaster, Lvl 17 team so things should move reasonably smoothly. Stone tanker too and were only fighting trolls and outcasts so no problems. OR YOU WOULD THINK SO.

The tank was new to the game so and rather then jump on him for mistakes he made to start with. I sent a couple of tells asking him if he was happy about what his resposability was as the team tank. he assured me that he knew what he was doing. (Bear in mind here that i had already checked his build and he had no taunt or taunt aura, no rooted, and his only travel power was fly, which as you can imagine, concerned me a little) but always one to try new things i gave him the benefit of the doubt.

First mob... Team wipe. Tank ran in hit one badguy got hit twice, poo'ed himself and ran away leaving yours truly to try and tank a six man spawn on a lvl 16 blaster.

Second Mob.... Team wipe. Tanker decides he dont want to stand in the middle of the mob, and would like to see the team empath stand in that place while he ran round the outside using his 2 attacks.

Third mob.... Team wipe, Our illustrious tanker has decided at this point that he wants to experiment. the rest of the team are already getting a bit fed up with racking up the debt every mob. So imagine the hair loss situation when our tanker decides to run into the middle of 3 mobs... and then straight back again.

Now i know that gauntlet has been 'fixed' and that a tank should still be able to hold aggro if the attack enough. IF that is the case, our tanker has learned some new emotes cos he seemed to be the only member of the team NOT taking aggro.

ANyway, he was eventually kicked from the team. I HAD tried to explain the finer points of tanking to him but some people just dont want to know.

Point being that there are too many Scrankers out there and not enough real tankers.

As for herding, I personnaly wont do it just for the sake of it. If i have a kin and/or a blaster on the team, then ill try and get as many baddies as possible in a nice tight area for uber fulcrums and maxi nuke kills.

Tankers arent just herding machines the same as trollers arent just holding machines. Theres a multitude of ways to tank depending on the situation, the key thing to remember though, is that tanks are supposed to take aggro, and not the poor blaster/scrapper who is trying to support the tank by taking those baddies down nice and fast.