Stalk_obot_EU

Bloody Bay is LVL 15 minimum you get lifted/dropped to lvl 25, you get their Via Cap Au Diable on villain side and Skyway City on the Hero

Sirens Call is LVL 20 Minimum, you get lifted/dropped to lvl 30, access via Sharkhead or Steel Canyon

Warburg is Lvl 30 Minimum and you get lifted/dropped to lvl 38, access via Kings Row or St Martial

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I would thank you NOT to presume to tell me the sentiment in which I started my own thread

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From your opening post:
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the damn devs mess with our builds all the time in the name of "balancing" so why give people who dont pvp the opportunity to interfer?

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That's saying the devs should not be giving non-PvPers are chance to 'mess with things' in the PvP zones. I understand it isn't saying that they should be kept out, but it could happily be read that way. I'm also happy to give you the benefit of the doubt.

OTOH, others posting after you basically have said that non-PvPers shouldn't enter the zones, and you are aware that there is an attitude of "if you don't want to get killed, keep out."

Personally, the only time I have complained about getting killed in a PvP zone was when I got slotted by a Stalker in what gets called a 'Safe Zone'. I wasn't actually bothered about the death, I was bothered that Cryptic had lied about the Safe Zone.

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You are right PVP is a small minority but thats no reason why our game should be influenced by those not participating in it

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There's no reason why my RP should be ruined by someone who isn't participating, but it happens on a semi-regular basis. Nothing is apparently done about this. There isn't even an RP Zone I can go to, at least you have three Zones and the arenas specifically designed to cater to your needs.

Everyone forgets this game started out PvE only. CoH sold on it being PvE only to many people. I'm utterly amazed that anyone thought adding PvP would improve things. I'm equally amazed that anyone thought the Arenas and Zones would be heavily used. I'm trully flabergasted that people thought the implementation of PvP would be good. Code retro-fits are always a mess.

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I almost started flaming you as I misread your words, its funny how when you expect a conversation to go one way you read it that way despite the actual words . I do agree with a lot of what you are saying, the arenas suck [censored] big time and are massively underutilised, huge waste. The PVP zones are also underused but we do normally ahve 8-10 on each side in Sirens Call on defiant most nights, Sirens was a step in the right direction with the bounty system giving you +3 SO enhancements, it had a real award based system in their, warburg and Bloody bay doesnt have anything like that and as such doesnt really interest me (even though I am now fully slotted on +3s) but IMO the buff/debuff missions are the wrong way to go to if they want more people in.

As for RP, I dont do this myself but I am of the firm conviction people should be able to do what they want and I dont see it as being a big thing to make a zone and have it ran in such a way, sadly it would probably see more action than the PVP zones Its a great pity if other people ruin your RP experience, beats me in how people take joy in messing up other peoples fun (trash talk on broadcast does it for me but at least they normally stop when i ask)

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As for "crying to mommy", comments like that are what make people uninterested in PvP. The attitude of the players has an annoying habit of being "Ha! Pwnd U N00b" even when they aren't actually saying that, if the person they just splattered is anything other than a regular PvPer. That sentiment is exactly how this thread started out, and it's how it is continuing, apparently. "If you don't want to PvP, get the **** out of our Zones." Sorry, they put those missions in so you guys could have someone who doesn't know what they're doing to kill. Rejoice in them! I know the Stalker I saw in Sirens a couple of days ago does. He was camping the hero base waiting for people to walk out all unawares.

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Only you seems to be of the sentiment that people in the PVP zones think it should be exclusive to PVPers and they deride PVErs who come in. This is not the case but it is a PVP zone and if you get killed on the way to get a boost from the high XP missions you shouldnt get upset, the abuse PVPers can get for killing a PVEr on the way to a mission is easily as bad as the very few bad apples who do trash talk across the broadcasts. (sadly it is usually stalkers)

I would thank you NOT to presume to tell me the sentiment in which I started my own thread as I am a very inclusive person who speaks to all I see who comes into Sirens call and try to get all involved. Anyone who knows me will know I speak to all, laugh with all and have a great time with great people in Sirens call.

The sentiment is simply this, I see no reason why people who do not PVP should (through no fault of their own) affect the PVP balance. My sentiment was that the devs have made the zone flawed (IMO) by adding the buff/debuff missions.

You are right PVP is a small minority but thats no reason why our game should be influenced by those not participating in it, imagine the outcry if COH/COV missions debuffed the opposing sides PVE powers? I dont want the zones to become like the dead arenas as I enjoy them, missions with higher XP are a good way to get people in and perhaps sample the PVP game but my ONLY POINT is that I dont see why their actions should affect a game (PVP) that they are not playing.

I am NOT saying PVErs should stay out, I am NOT saying they shouldnt do the missions so they dont upset the PVPers, I AM saying that I dont think the DEVS have it right. My rant is purely developmental and not against ANY players

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But you dont need to do that in PvP, so In my opinion its pretty screwed up with the ballence atleast when I compare blasters and stalkers.

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But thats a blaster, the faceplanter AT of COH and lets face it, if not for stalkers who would be giving you a challange in the PVP zones? What I find annoying in PVP is that NRG blasters can batter fully slotted brutes. Surely an AT which is specifically for damage and defense should not be detoggled quite so easily, get into a fight with a NRG blaster, start pounding, defiance kicks in, all toggles drop and you dead, why play a brute if thats just gonna happen? Its all swings and roundabouts.

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AS drops 2 toggles auto, is that better? Stalkers do the same....

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Not quite sure what you mean, its different not better thats what Im saying, you win on the swings and lose on the roundabouts.

perhaps you should ban stalkers from this race

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I do think the debuffs are a bit extreme. Yesterday I was using Build Up with Bonesmasher and could hardly hurt a corruptor!

Oh, and Happy Birthday Botty!

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Know what you mean, build up, AS followed by impale couldnt take down a controller for me the other day

and thanks

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But you dont need to do that in PvP, so In my opinion its pretty screwed up with the ballence atleast when I compare blasters and stalkers.

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But thats a blaster, the faceplanter AT of COH and lets face it, if not for stalkers who would be giving you a challange in the PVP zones? What I find annoying in PVP is that NRG blasters can batter fully slotted brutes. Surely an AT which is specifically for damage and defense should not be detoggled quite so easily, get into a fight with a NRG blaster, start pounding, defiance kicks in, all toggles drop and you dead, why play a brute if thats just gonna happen? Its all swings and roundabouts.

I beleive it may just be poor phrasing as opposed to working incorrecly. For example if SinghMC has just done a mission and it says "SinghMC has completed a mission heroes now do 7% less damage" it may be working backwards, I.E. that before he did his mission it may have been 9% and it is now stating the total buff/debuff thats in play.

Of course the devs may just have screwed up again

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If they are the one trick pony ppl say they are, they can't be much good. If it's the same trick over and over and over. hide+stealth, sneak up, AS, run away like headless chicken. Can't be much fun.
And I have read in more than one stalker-thread, that the stalkers are no good in PvE. (And these are the ones arguing FOR the stalkers)

Edit: But this isn't the issue, sorry.

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Being a stalker is a different game to the other ATs (though you can adopt a similar role with a traps blaster) Its more strategic and surgical, taking out a crucial member of a heroes team for example. I play my stalker tactically and sportingly and work my way through a team and dont just kill the same person over and over again (except for gandrel ) I enjoy it and hope that the people who play against me enjoy playing me too.

Stalkers are not the best PVE AT at all, but then neither are (solo) Controllers or Dominators generally. I can solo missions well enough with my stalker as I get mobs of 3 by an AS, placate, impale and kill a second enemy then finish off the 3rd. its quite simple and fast enough but thats my build and my tactic, not all brutes rampage through PVE missions as fast as my brute. Fact is its not a great PVE AT, its not the super AT in PVP people think it is either, only the inexperienced PVPers think that way (no offense to anyone, I know plenty who changed their mind from playing in Sirens)

People who spend time PVPing will soon learn the stalkers ways and how to avoid it, its getting MUCH harder to kill the cadre of regulars that I play with in Sirens and they havent fundamentally changed their powers, just gained experience.

I like stalkers, I like playing my stalker, I like killing stalkers (lingering rad followed by bebuffs and chain holds, run away from that mwahahaha) Stalkers are an AT that makes PVP interesting, it keeps you on your toes and you become alert, they are NOT the strongest PVP AT by any stretch of the imagination, they are just different.

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Sure there are loads of stalkers in PvP zones, but how do you think they got to the respective lvls for the PvP zones? By playing the PvE game of course! So by that very same calculation, there *must* be at least as many, if not more, Stalkers playing PvE as there were/are playing PvP!

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Thank you J_Sus! And thank you, G_Zeus, for fleshing out my point for me. If stalkers are so crapola as some ppl in this thread want us to believe. Howcome so many people are playing them? I.E. Playing PvE to get XP to level up to lvl 20 (Hey! That rhymes!), so they can get into Sirens. Because, as you would have known if you'd been playing PvP, there is no xp for defeating players.

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Not seen anyone claiming stalkers are crapola, as all ATs they can be as effective as you make them. And despite popular opinion there are not hoards of stalkers rampaging around Sirens call, its rare for there to be as many as 4 and there are often more than that amount of specific hero ATs in there (4+ blaster, 4+ scrappers I mean) 4 of one type of archetype is not a lot in an entire zone IMO

Dominators seem to be the smallest group in PVP atm which is a shame as they are very useful to say the least

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Obot, how many times do I have to point out that Tactics + IR goggles DO NOT REVEAL STALKERS (at least stalkers that has both Stealth and Hide). And I've also said that in a team where more than one person had tactics running, I still couldn't see stalkers untill "ASSASSIN STRIKE" appeared over the other person's head. (the one thing I HAVE learned is not to stay still for more than half a nanosecond at a time. HE apparently, hadn't learned this.) This was also with IR-Goggles.


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*sigh* how many last posts are you going to make? And to be honest I no longer care if you are able to get it working for you but the simple fact is I spend a great deal of time in Sirens call and know it DOES work as I speak to all people in there and we chat about things, "hmm you can see me now got IR goggles + tactics?" and so on

I run Stealth + Hide, 2 +perception powers (including the IR goggles temp power) CAN see me. Of course you could ahve been up against a stalker who had invisibility applied to him AS WELL, but thats a different issue

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At the same time, if a stalker can stand nose-to-nose with a character/group running several +perception powers, for an extended period of time without even a flicker of visibility, something needs to be changed

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They cant, 1 +perception yes, 2 +perception no. Can we bypass it breifly by dropping from sky and having AS ready to be clicked? yes.

Tactics + IR = seeable stalker
Tactics + Targeting Drone = seeable stalker
Tactics + SR = Seeable stalker
Targeting Drone + IR = Seeable stalker
etc
etc

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But that's not how these buffs work. There is a single buff/debuff, which has a variable value according to what missions are run. At least I assume that's the case, as it's how it works in Warburg.

Doesn't Siren's Call get the little messages telling you that "Dumb Hero has completed a mission and the villains now have a 10% damage debuff". That's what you get in Warburg.


To the OP: Basically what you seem to be saying is that the PvP zones are for regular PvPers, and everyone else can just get lost, because we mess up your calculations. Is that correct?

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No

What Im saying is the developers intention is likely to ahve the opposit effect, I.E. making people who do like PVP leave as their build is unduely altered by people who do not enter into the purpose of the zone (PVP) I have no problem with people exploiting the higher XP missions but I fail to see how people with no interest in PVP should be able to fundamentally effect those who do.

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its too dark for a decent arena

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Probably because it isn't an arena.

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lets not get anal or try to play technical, any area of conflict can be described as an arena

Arena - "A place or scene where forces contend or events unfold"

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the only thing that annoys me about Assassins Strike is that it also toggle drops, making it even more powerful... I did read that this was a bug though.

And if you want to take on stalkers roll yourself a scrapper (5 AS in one fight and I stll walked out of it hey stalkobot)

I'm also in the process of building a stalker hunting blaster...

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/em slap

Detoggle is as intended, if they didnt detoggle then there would be a 0% point of a stalker staying to duke it out with a scrapper.

Top slotted regens with the accolades are a royal pain in the backside, lets change the vein of this thread to nerfing them

as for a stalker hunting blaster traps and tactics work just fine.

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We all know the devs arn't going to take this feature out but would it be too much to ask to just show us the buffs/debuffs like any others in the game? Atleast then we can take the appropriate measures to counter them, i.e. buy inspirations, get buffs from someone etc.

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um...they are on your status effects bar (under the hp/end/xp bars)

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I dont think thats what he mean, yeah it shows if you are enfeebled and so on but it doesnt give you any figures behind it, I.E. you now do 7% less damage and so on so you can try to factor in an alternative or group.

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There's no use arguing about any of this, of course, Developers have said that stacking Stealth and Hide to counter stacked +perception is not intended, and that they're going to stop players from being able to be one-shotted.

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They have? I'm sure it says in Hides description that it can be stacked with other stealth powers to make the stalker harder to see!

I know one-shotting is being looked at, but you're a bad PvP stalker if you aren't prepared for an instance where you don't one shot someone.

I've said it once and I'll say it again: Stalkers have one trick, and one trick only. You take away their ability to be the assassin class (which is what they're SUPPOSED to be) and you may as well remove the whole AT from the game.

Besides that, half the fun of PvP is working out a way to beat someone that appears to be "unbeatable". I certainly wouldn't still be playing if I knew that I could march into a PvP zone, steamroller everyone and then leave. How can you improve without failing?

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I have 2 tricks and AS isnt even number 1, impale is something I send praise to the gods for on a daily basis High damage, immobing and -flying people is a real joy to behold.

Oh yeah and G-zeus is on my list of people I like to kill cos they are a pain in the [censored] to lock down (he makes a mockery of being a squishy when he wont let me squish him) its a good thing being on the list, trust me

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Ah good old stalker debate, The problem with stalkers are that they are overpowering toward anyone who doesnt prepare for it, a stalker can if he is good take allmost everyone 1 on 1. But give me 1 good empath and Ill show you some stalkers crying. When Im in the PvP zones I have had stalkers crying nerf */Nrg blasters

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Yep I cry nerf NRG blasters each time freon/napalm/crystal bashes me after I have defianced them to apparant godhood and against SinghMC, all in a good natured joking way of course

*sigh*

A stalker stalks
A scrapper scraps
A tanker tanks
etc
etc

everyons powers are in relation to their ATs, wouldnt be much of an AT if stalkers couldnt stalk. Simple fact is Hide and Stealth are EASILY circumvented should you CHOOSE the relevant powersets, if you dont then you cant complain really, its ENTIRELY your choice. Some people make specific PVP builds, some dont, its your call and NO AT is unbeatable and currently a well specced Regen Scrapper will munch any Stalker.

If you have problems with stalkers or any AT you need to sit back, research and think about what to do, mine and Xanthus controllers die in one shot if a stalker gets through us (neither have +perception powers) but we certainly kill our fair share of stalkers. Try to think of it as a puzzle that needs to be beaten, you say its not fair that we cant see stalkers, we cant see illusion controllers either, I cant beat SinghMC solo unless he makes a balls of it, the PDs can be a royal pain in the proverbial especially if their uber squishy empath Elerith is with them but so what, its what makes the game fun. PVP is, from experienced PVP players points of view, pretty well balanced, instead of saying something isnt fair, do something about it, my stalker only exists as I was building something to take out TGs storm controller (thats right all blame TG )

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Teaming to get buffs -on top of sacrificing TONS of other usefull things- just to be able to spot these guys is just silly.

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If you are not willing to compromise your build into a pvp spec you cant complain about anything really, PVP is NOT PVE

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A good player can counter even the best stalkers.

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And howcome I miss some stalkers with every attack I have, when I have two acc SO's in each and I have just popped a yellow and buildup?
I don't think ANYONE should be completely safe in a PvP zone. SPECIALLY when it only counts for ONE AT.
I wouldn't cry if stalkers got some new bonus, like more hp, bigger damage while un-hidden or whatever it is. My point is that with stealth the stalker is totally undetectable by anyone who don't have devices and targeting drone (or a 4+ person team where everyone has tactics and stays within eachothers area of effect). And that is a WAY too narrow weakness. I as a blaster have weakness to most anything anyone cares to throw at me. I have NO resistances, not much more hp than stalkers, and apart from the tiny bonus given by stealth NO defense. We can of course use Manouvers, but with an active travel power, it is impossible to run along with something. All we have is a miniscule amount more damage than others. But as I have been told repeatedly in-game, scrappers and brutes (and in one case I was told) tanks can apparently "easily" match that, and they still have (I don't know the numbers here but bare with me) twice the hp AND resistances/defenses to boot.
But this isn't about blasters, and I'm not asking for any increase in either damage or hp or anything else. I'm asking for some fair way of countering the stealth abilities of a stalker. And I've come up with MANY suggestions to this, that is both fair and easily implementable. But of course, since ppl choose stalkers because they do have this unfair advantage over everyone else, the same said stalker players argue heavily against them all. And my suggestions HAVE been VERY FAIR.

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Trust me, having lived in Sirens call and amassing well over 1000 pvp points on my stalker I can tell you there are PLENTY of ways to kill stalkers, and plenty of characters who can see me with hide and stealth stacked. Also a single stalker no matter how good will have a VERY tough time killing a properly slotted regen (Singhmc im looking at you :P)

As Xanthus says, Stalkers do have insane defence, insanely weak that is FAR less than scrappers. A good player can counter even the best stalkers.

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I come in to take advantage of the nice Xp...and then go hit some villains

Although honestly though, I had problems with my arcs on Ice, and I couldn't be bothered to go through two whole arcs with -5's in them, so I've been doing some PvP missions in between the boring -5 missions.

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yeah but you a pvp regular and hence not a problem in my eyes

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Easy fix, find a farmer from the villain side

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yesterday was the villains who were debuffed, tomorrow it could be the heroes, I just find it distasteful that people (all sides) can get (more) unwelcome nerfs by people who dont interact in the way the zones were created for. Seems my personal bugbear ATM, I work hard to make Sirens (Defiant) equal by swapping sides and cajoling people to bolster the underdogs, farmers are just making it nigh on impossible to get a real balance now

My EM/INV brute wipes missions with ease though has the same end issues as the rest even with copious amounts of end recs in virtually all powers, still with 12 cabs (which I buy religiously) I can sprint through a whole mission on nigh on full rage.

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Not fair? That's the point of the missions, to debuff the enemy. Instead of moaning about it, why did they not just do some missions?

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My point is this, why should people who come to exploit the increased XP and drop value of the missions in the PVP zones have the ability to fundamentally alter the playing dynamics of people who go to the PVP zones to actually PVP? Im not talking about someone who PVPs making a slight shift, (Im talking about people who come in and we all see their names on the bounty target for about 5 seconds while thye jump from mission to mission without ever doing any PVP and cry if anyone attacks them on their way to a mission). I personally go to the PVP zones to play against people and have a good time with the great people there, I dont want to ahve to spend ages doing missions (on either side) to try an equalise the playing feild, thats what the rest of the game is for (doing missions)

I would welcome debuffing missions in the PVP zones if they were there JUST to shift the dynamics and didnt give XP, then they would be used just by the PVPers and not people who dont PVP. Or they should just have the bonus of the increased XP, to ahve the both increased XP and pvp altering capabilities is not a good idea IMO as it leads to PVPers being influenced by outside events from farmers

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I like it when they run. It means they're not fighting back...

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yep we spines like it when they run as its a free impale in their back