PennyPA

Thanks Aurex for the reply.

I still disagree that something is wrong with vigilance. And in my opinion, in order to change it, it would take away from our strengths.

As for teaming (and not directed at you), players have numerous tools to team, and if they don't use them, then it is not the AT's or game's fault. Like MM's, stalkers, or even doms, I have never, ever seen a message (via global, request, broadcast, etc.) a team advertising for more of them on a team. On the other hand, I have seen many, many messages for buffers/debuffers, but not more scrappers, tanks, PB's, or WS's. Some defenders solo really well and some team really well.

Rodion - I can't really agree with your suggestion. It treads too much on self-buffing and that would reduce/nerf our buffs/debuffs. For example, using your system, how would CM/ID be - status protection now for the defender? SB? Or what about slower recharge powers vs. fast powers - a bubbler or kin vs. fort and CM (with its long animation) of an emp?

Thanks all!

I agree EB. I was a little lazy with the highlighting of threads to see which ones had new posts. Maybe getting a little older now, but hard to see the bolded letters to indicate that.

And they don't seem to change to normal font after I visited and still look unread if I come back later.

Or I am just cranky that my coffee is not kicking in.

For me, I got my dom 45 to 50 and my new scrapper 28 to 30.

Made somewhere around 200 mill inf between drops and inf.

Thank you very much DC and Viv!

Will we be able to use them on Voo?

If room, I should be on at 930PM. Would like to bring 46 dom and get some XP, otherwise, my scrapper needs some inf. If full, I will see if DC has room on his list.

The forums are freaking me out!

Woohoo! Pretty.

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In my experience , no they arent.

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Well, I will just say we have different experiences and the devs will do what they want to do. I love my defenders and lookiing forward to leveling a 4th to 50.

Thanks for the replies/comments.

Just to post on purples and merits from the devs.

Synapse has posted on this before. (scroll down to OfficerZap).

So it would be possible and I am guessing they are datamining in the meantime to decide if to add them to merit rolls.

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...

Defenders using powers on enemies are subtly lowering an enemy's defense/attack/weakness to certain other attacks.

Defender currently buffing the team are making allies stronger/faster/harder to hit.

...

I'd rather see Vigilance as an overall buff to the defender. Something in the neighborhood of a 2% bonus to whatever powers they chose. Be it more damage mitigation, or stronger buffs/debuffs, or what have you.


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Just asking Aurex.

In one part you say defenders weaken enemies (damage mitigation/debuffs) and strengthen allies (buffs), then indicate this needs an overall buff.

This is related to my other post, but what will be given up for this buff? Or are defenders not able to perform up to the expectation with their buffs/debuffs?

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how would a change in something that has little/none effect on the AT currently(especially solo) nerf said AT?

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Because I said in my other post and hope you get a chance to read the thread rather than focus on one little point:
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IMO, these changes that keep getting proposed would result in a nerf to our strongest assets - the buffs/debuffs. I always viewed our damage output or status protection or whatever to be balanced to what we can add to others.

For example, form a duo of blaster and an emp def. Giving that blaster buffs, heals, and status protection makes a powerful combination that more than makes up the lower damage by the emp defender alone.

If they were to change the inherent power for more soloable, then the balance would be that the defenders won't shine as much on teams and would be "replacable" by controllers and corruptors.

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In other words, any thing that makes a defender stronger such as change to the inherent (and I think they are overpowered in what they do for others and in combination) would be balanced by a decrease from our best abilities - buff/debuff. If they decrease those, then we will be on par with controllers and corruptors, and won't shine any more.

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just so we're clear your saying that they will "balance" them by decreasing the values for our current buffs and debuffs to put them on par with controllers and corruptors to compensate for a new inherent?

A) assuming that they would in fact take some sort of action to "balance" defenders with the addition of a new inherent, they wouldnt lower the values simply because we get the sets as a primary instead of a secondary like controllers and corruptors. what kinda since would that make if a primary and secondary put out the same numbers?

B) we have no idea if they would "balance" defenders if we were to get a new inherent. they didnt touch blasters when they got defiance 2.0 so why would they mess with defenders?

Also, i did read the rest of your post. I only addressed part because im fairly tired and to be honest, i dont give a [censored]. I can, if you really want me to.

EDIT: i always put the term balance in quotes because thats just a fancy word the devs use in place of nerf. also spelling.

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First, of course we don't know what the devs would plan to do. I guess in future in I have to add disclaimers as my opinion and so forth so people don't get confused...

Second, because it was indicated by the devs (no disclaimer here) that blasters were *underperforming as an AT*. Another is stalkers. The stalker buff was partly tied to teaming (chance to crit 10% + 3% per additional team member). Stalkers were great soloers, but had team survivability issues and, in my experience, never actively searched for on teams. The buff helped that.

Are defenders *underperforming as an AT*? In your experience, defenders don't make others greater? Or when in combination, killing machines? Are defenders not asked to join teams?

I'll say again, in my opinion, any thing that will make the defenders stronger will have to be balanced by some thing else. And, again in my opinion, the only thing to take from defenders is their buffs/debuffs since the only other thing left is our secondaries, which are already weaker.

I will also add that I would like to know why I get this impression from different posters/threads that defenders need to be on par with blaster damage, scrapper survivability, or whatever. They are a team based AT and make others more powerful at the their expense.

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how would a change in something that has little/none effect on the AT currently(especially solo) nerf said AT?

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Because I said in my other post and hope you get a chance to read the thread rather than focus on one little point:
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IMO, these changes that keep getting proposed would result in a nerf to our strongest assets - the buffs/debuffs. I always viewed our damage output or status protection or whatever to be balanced to what we can add to others.

For example, form a duo of blaster and an emp def. Giving that blaster buffs, heals, and status protection makes a powerful combination that more than makes up the lower damage by the emp defender alone.

If they were to change the inherent power for more soloable, then the balance would be that the defenders won't shine as much on teams and would be "replacable" by controllers and corruptors.

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In other words, any thing that makes a defender stronger such as change to the inherent (and I think they are overpowered in what they do for others and in combination) would be balanced by a decrease from our best abilities - buff/debuff. If they decrease those, then we will be on par with controllers and corruptors, and won't shine any more.

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Ever player a stalker?

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no but if i remember correctly they got a buff a few issues ago

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They sure did.

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A dom?

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buffed in i15

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And loving the buff.

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A MM?

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has a much greater ability to solo than a defender

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Yeah, I love soloing AVs with either of my two 50 MMs.

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What about a scrapper?

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same thing as before

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And completely agree here.

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I only have my experience to back me up, and my gut feeling is that defenders are a fantastic AT that is not broken.

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i completely agree. defenders are a fantastic (and IMHO the best) AT that isnt broken. its inherent is the opposite of that.

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Ah, for me the inherent and the AT are one in the same and can't be separate. If you get a chance to read my other post since you only quote part of one for a specific reply to another poster, you can see that I feel that a change in vigilance would nerf what makes the AT shine.

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Even with the new SF, in my 5 years of playing, I have never, ever seen a team broadcasting "need more stalkers".

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The best compliment my stalker has ever recieved was that he was "Like a brute".

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Heh, I seen some amazing stalkers too! Too bad my widow came along and stuck playing her more.

(minor note above: yes, I know stalkers have been around since CoV launch and not for 5 years. Just making a point.)

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Penny is a swinger.

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...thinks about it...

*If I am on*, got a lowbie (43 dom) for the ITF, otherwise a 50. And problably for respec too.

Unfortunately giving myself less than 50/50 on being on. Hanging out with the neighbors and may get carried away! So if not on by 930, I won't be on.

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Defenders tend to shine best in team play


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I am going to follow up on this and emphasize it again. Can anyone show that a defender of any combination is unsoloable? I know the answer and it is "no". If they could, I would agree that something should be done. Are they the best soloer's? Again, no in my experience. But defenders are more team orientated and can make teams incredibly powerful when grouped together.

IMO, these changes that keep getting proposed would result in a nerf to our strongest assets - the buffs/debuffs. I always viewed our damage output or status protection or whatever to be balanced to what we can add to others.

For example, form a duo of blaster and an emp def. Giving that blaster buffs, heals, and status protection makes a powerful combination that more than makes up the lower damage by the emp defender alone.

If they were to change the inherent power for more soloable, then the balance would be that the defenders won't shine as much on teams and would be "replacable" by controllers and corruptors.

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But... I HAVE seen Defenders turned down, because they are Defenders.

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Ever player a stalker? A dom? A MM? What about a scrapper? My ice tank? All rejected in my experience. They must be broken too.
Even with the new SF, in my 5 years of playing, I have never, ever seen a team broadcasting "need more stalkers".

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I have witnessed someone kicking a good Defender out of a team, to make room for a Controller.

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Oh well, that is how some people play. Too bad.

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And I have experienced the boggling and dubts that accompany trying to find a team, and not just being ignored, but being rejected.

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My 1st lvl50 def was an emp. People like having an emp. Then came the late game when people wanted rads or kins, not emps. Yeah, teaming was great then. My next def was a D3. That was so funny to see people react, saying "you are not a healer". The lol's back then.

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It has gotten better since then - it seemed when I started the game there was "lol defenders" phase going on... but it sticks with me.

I keep hearing how awsome Defenders are... but I have yet to SEE it. I have yet to EXPERIENCE it. All I've seen is that they start off as pathetic, and - with time, effort, and at least 22 levels of pain and masachism behind them - they can turn into something... mediocre.

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I suggest you look at the link I posted. That was a MSTF of all defenders. I did a STF once with 6 dark defs and 2 storm defs (I would post the link the screen shots, but has long been purged). It was not an issue to complete and one of my most fun TF's. Mediocre? I suggest you try all def TF's and come back on how mediocre they really are.

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So! I have no scary number to back myself up. Just a feeling in my gut that... something's broken, and it needs to be fixed.

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I only have my experience to back me up, and my gut feeling is that defenders are a fantastic AT that is not broken.

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And be honest, people. Even if you think Vig is 'Fine,' would you really be upset if they replaced it with something else? Anything that worked in and out of teams?

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Upset? Of course not.

Is a change needed? No.

Defenders can be extremely powerful ATs when grouped, espcially together.
- Put an emp with a blaster and just watch the carnage.
- Haven't people done all def TFs (like a MSTF run) and seen how ridiculously powerful defenders are? Now they want to boost that more?
- I have never seen once a defender turned down for a team because of their inherent power.

I have seen things like status protection or damage increase or whatever. From my experience, defenders aren't the perfect ATs to solo. Can they? Of course! In my view, things like a damage boost would require balance to our buffs and debuffs. For status protection - why? This game is easy enough. They may as well get rid of status effects in the game then. Plus I believe corruptors would have a fit that defenders have an inherent status protection and they don't.

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Vigilance is hated.

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Says you.

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No, says a lot of people. Edit: Although, it's not as hated as some would think, it's still a bit of a ways from being loved.

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Nice way to contradict yourself. And I would love to meet these people. Apparently you have and can speak for all of them.

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Personal opinion on how Suggestions and Ideas should work: If you don't like the suggested idea, tell him why it sucks. Give an alternate idea, if possible. If you have no ideas to add, at least give him information to tweak the idea or convince him to try again.

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Ah great, another one that assumes. Look at my post history and you would see I have brought up points on other people's suggestions.
Say from today.
Or from the 20th.
Or from July 1.
Or what about from June 29.
Note I stuck to replies on the orignal idea rather than other replies.

First, I would like to see something like the OP suggested.

And just tossing in my 2 inf. on these type of sets and this suggestion probably has been given before and I can’t find it atm.

If we ever got something like the advanced tech armors and weapons like in a battle suit, I was hoping something from the branching system would used to help customize the AT works like the VEATs. The branches could allow for more of a tank-ish/melee style or something with a lot more range/stealthy abilities or just something different that I am not thinking about to keep it balanced.
You would take "powers" that enhanced the abilities of the suit, like a reinforced lining for the armor for increase resistance or energy shield for increased defense, a cloak for stealth, and so forth. I tried to think of a long list of powers, but just don’t know the numbers well enough to make one that is consistent in the game.
And to add a twist to the AT, since this is a suit based powerset, then you would be locked out of all the other pools, but with alternatives. For example, instead of stamina, you would get “secondary battery pack”, instead of fly, you could get rocket pack, and so forth. Yeah, this makes a long list of alternative powers for powers we already have and probably not worth the work, but I guess it would definitely be a unique type of AT, especially if we could customize the look of the suit as we add these powers.