Okton

You already have Snow Storm (and Infrigidate) in /cold to slow down enemies, it's the other debuffs in rad which are useful (-tht -def -regen -dmg -res). Thermal brings in great buffs for your team-mate as well as some very good debuffs at higher level, but as Phil said, several combos can work nicely for a corr duo. As much as I love Fire in PvE for the AoE damage, I'd rather go for the -res of sonic for a PvP duo.

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I'd rather pair ice/ice and sonic/kin

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or ice/cold and sonic/thermal (for 2v2).

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Keep in mind that other sets don't have Mind's greatest tool, Sleep which provide you a safe path. Other 4 sets (Fire, Ice, Earth and Grav) have immobilize instead of sleep. Immobilized foes still can shoot you. And Immobs are DoT, so you can't see solid numbers like Mind.


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Actually, that's not eaxctly true: both Earth and Ice have an AoE sleep. The thing is, people rarely take them because you have plenty of other control tools which are often more effective in large teams (e.g. knockdown from Earthquake or Ice Slick). AoE Immobs are not mainly used as damage powers, but are usually used along with an AoE stun (which Earth and Gravity both have) to create a second (fast-recharging) pseudo-hold, as well as to set up containment when you have an AoE attack.

Looks good. I would still swap 2 EndRdx from Darkest Night and Shadow Fall to Tht_Debuf and DmgRes respectively, and only if you are having real endurance problems add a 2nd EndRdx to each (you might just go for some +recov from IO sets at some point).

Rad is such a stong set that all the primaries go well with it, so the choice really depends on your playstyle. Here are some comments about each (skipping Fire and Mind) and how they mix with /rad:

- Illusion: a very popular choice with /rad because of the good synergy (debuffs benefit all pets), good single-target damage and the ability to solo early on with PA. A very versatile set (fear, confuse, invisibility) which is arguably the best soloist (at least until 38), and brings a lot to a team (and possibly the strongest against AVs). Having a 2nd AoE hold in EMP helps with the fact that you don't have many tools for setting up containment in your primary (and don't take Flash before SOs!). A good combo for PvP if you're interested.
- Gravity: very good single-target damage at low levels (Lift, Crush, Propel) also makes for reasonable soloing. Gets a great pet which spams holds and does good damage. Allows for some nice combos such as wormholing debuff anchors into groups and locking them down (via immobs or holds). The secondary effect (slow) will also work well with Lingering Rad. It's also nice to have both a ranged and a point blank AOE hold.
- Earth/Ice: both of these are more about control than damage, but are excellent with rad. Earth will allow you to stack the ThT and Def debuffs while Ice lets you slow things down (Shiver + Lingering Rad = mobs crawling to a halt, including their recharge). Make sure you get Stamina (get it regardless of the primary actually), since things can get a bit toggle-heavy (eg running Arctic Air, Rad Infection, Enervating Field and Choking Cloud all at once). Both can be decent in PvP even if they lack a bit in damage (Earth/rad is awesome in base raids for example).

If you're still unsure, here is a good guide (even if a bit old) which might help you choose.

Hope some of this helps and have fun!

Some suggestions for SO slotting of Dark Miasma powers based on how I played my Thugs/Dark:

- Tar Patch: 3 Rechgs asap. A slow if you have a spare slot, but it's not that important for PvE.
- Darkest Night: 3 Tht_Debuf 1-2 EndRdx. It's a major Tht as well as dmg debuff.
- Fearsome Stare: can be slotted for Tht_Debuf, Fear, or a bit of both. In any case slot 2 Acc and preferably 1-2 Rechg to spam/stack it.
- Dark Servant: you'll need 3 Rechgs to make it perma unless you have Hasten. I tend to enhance the Tht_Debuf and then slot either Heal or Immob.
- Soul Tentacles: I would suggest at least one Range enhance, since it's rather short. It's more important than EndRdx imo.
- Shadow Fall: I find it very useful (I use Super Speed with it to ghost) and slot it 2 EndRdx 3 DmgRes.

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a stealth toggle doesn't really appeal to me

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It's not just a (PbAoE) stealth toggle, but also a group shield with 15% resistance (base) to psi, energy and negative energy, fear protection/resistance, as well as a bit of defence!

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I got a lvl 42 Ill/Sonic Troller. I enjoy playing him, but he is a weak PvE build. He is good in PvP but I don't like PvP. Guess I have to get him to 50 anyway.

Ill/Emp is fun but gets boring in the high levels...
Ill/Kin is pretty fun until about 40-50 where you get a bit bored with it...

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Lmao!!! Please please don't go to SWG!!! I mean it!!

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Meh... for once I have to agree with Dark

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Sorry to hear that, normally union folk a lot better than that. You have to let me know in game which blaster it was.

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It's not normally better than that at all.

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Joking aside, it's really not normally better than that, and I don't play an Emp, I play a Kin most often, sometimes a Rad.

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I usually play my sonic in the zones. Then the nubs don't even know what it is you're doing

For a levelling build up to 33 using SOs, I'd probably do something like this:

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.20
http://www.honourableunited.org.uk/mhd.php

Level 33 Mutation Controller
Primary Power Set: Illusion Control
Secondary Power Set: Radiation Emission
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Blind -- Acc(A), Acc(3), Hold(3), Hold(9), RechRdx(9), RechRdx(11)
Level 1: Radiant Aura -- Heal(A), Heal(29), Heal(31)
Level 2: Spectral Wounds -- Acc(A), Dmg(5), Dmg(5), Dmg(17), Acc(31)
Level 4: Accelerate Metabolism -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(7), RechRdx(7), EndMod(15), EndMod(15), EndMod(17)
Level 6: Radiation Infection -- ToHitDeb(A), ToHitDeb(11), ToHitDeb(13), DefDeb(13)
Level 8: Hurdle -- Jump(A)
Level 10: Air Superiority -- Acc(A)
Level 12: Group Invisibility -- RechRdx(A)
Level 14: Fly -- Flight(A), Flight(31)
Level 16: Health -- Heal(A)
Level 18: Phantom Army -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(19), RechRdx(19), Dmg(21), Dmg(21), Acc(23)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod(A), EndMod(23), EndMod(25)
Level 22: Hasten -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(25), RechRdx(27)
Level 24: Enervating Field -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(27)
Level 26: Spectral Terror -- Acc(A), Fear(29)
Level 28: Deceive -- Acc(A)
Level 30: Lingering Radiation -- Acc(A)
Level 32: Phantasm -- Acc(A), Dmg(33), Dmg(33), Dmg(33)

Your power choices are very solid. I'm one of those who likes Deceive (and would probably take it earlier), some find it's skippable (or droppable later on). Group Invis will need another rechg soon and Lingering Rad will need more slots when you can, but I find it becomes really an important power in the 30s (and 40s).

Have fun!

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believe me, 7 knows what a gimped build looks like!

* hes got about twenty of them! "lol

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Including 7 gimped ill/rads I heard...

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as i don't like EM Pulse i will get it at lvl 49.

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EM Pulse is much much better than Choking Cloud.

And why Elec Mastery???

But, but... with Blizzard it's like Christmas every day!

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I'm sure most people will disagree with something...

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Why do people hate Blizzard so much?

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I guess I'm still a bit of a controller newbie as I spam Blind and Deceive.

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I spam Blind and Deceive as well as Spectral Wounds and my Epic blast . I don't have Leadership or Choking Cloud on my ill/rad (see link above to build, although I've tweaked it a bit since) and usually don't have SI on when I fight, but I play very actively and would hate having to worry about endurance mid-fight (and that's just in PvE). Hey, I even use Conserve Power in some AV fights! Also, since I slotted IOs in Spectral Terror (with the lovely damage proc), I find I often recast it before it expires so I can re-position it better, and that's an end-hungry power too. Now that I think of it, my only toons without Stamina are a kin/elec defender, my tri-form ws and a dark/elec brute .

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Stamina for my Ill/Rad is essential ... and I haven't even got Choking Cloud yet

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Fortunately, you can skip it Unthing . More seriously, you can get something around +30% recov from IO set bonuses on a "standard" (not too gimpy) Ill/Rad build (Stamina gives +25% base), but this would probably be at the expense of more useful (imo) bonuses (like +rechg). So it's doable with generous EndRdx slotting, but I just don't think it's worth it, especially when you think of those long AV fights.

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And about ISC, take it if you can. Tis a great power, and the animation is really cool. Also your main AoE damage.

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*has flashbacks of Blue's high level doms faceplanting... repeatedly... due to some reckless mega-aggroing... to the joy of my Vengeance thirsty thugs*

But point well taken, I still have a hard time thinking of doms as AoE damage dealers. Control? Yes. Damage? We'll see

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3) Telekinesis: 10' radius AoE auto-hit hold... In heroes, they could grabb it in their PPPs, before lvl40, and we can go for it at lvl 12...

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So at 12... just like Mind controllers then, right?

On my Mind/icy I will probably be skipping Frost Breath, ISC and Chilling Embrace but plan to take Aid Self. Vengeance would be nice, but don't think I can fit it in. Good to know that the Mu Guardian is not bad since I was planning to take that patron.

Just the hold. I mainly use HOs in my single-target holds anyway to add some damage.

Gratz Stand! (about time... )

Have fun!

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
---------------------------------------------
Name:
Level: 50
Archetype: Controller
Primary: Ice Control
Secondary: Sonic Resonance
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Chilblain==> EndRdx(1) EndRdx(19) Range(34) Range(34) Range(34)
01) --> Sonic Siphon==> Range(1) Range(11) Range(11) EndRdx(37) EndRdx(50)
02) --> Frostbite==> Range(2) Slow(3) Slow(3)
04) --> Sonic Barrier==> Range(4) Range(5) Range(5) EndRdx(36) EndRdx(37) EndRdx(37)
06) --> Flurry==> EndRdx(6) EndRdx(7) EndRdx(7) Rechg(40) DisDur(43)
08) --> Arctic Air==> Rechg(8) Rechg(9) Rechg(9)
10) --> Stealth==> Rechg(10) Rechg(15) Rechg(15) DefBuf(36)
12) --> Sonic Cage==> EndRdx(12) EndRdx(13) EndRdx(13)
14) --> Hasten==> Rechg(14)
16) --> Disruption Field==> Rechg(16) Rechg(17) Rechg(17)
18) --> Flash Freeze==> Rechg(18) Rechg(19) Range(46) Range(50)
20) --> Whirlwind==> KB_Dist(20) KB_Dist(21) KB_Dist(21)
22) --> Challenge==> Rechg(22) Rechg(23) Rechg(23)
24) --> Provoke==> Rechg(24) Rechg(25) Rechg(25)
26) --> Glacier==> EndRdx(26) EndRdx(27) EndRdx(27)
28) --> Maneuvers==> Rechg(28) Rechg(29) Rechg(29)
30) --> Sonic Repulsion==> Range(30) Range(31) Range(31) Rechg(31)
32) --> Invisibility==> DefBuf(32) Rechg(33) Rechg(33) Rechg(33)
35) --> Phase Shift==> Rechg(35) EndRdx(36)
38) --> Liquefy==> Dmg(38) Dmg(39) EndRdx(39) EndRdx(39) EndRdx(40) Hold(40)
41) --> Hurl Boulder==> EndRdx(41) EndRdx(42) KB_Dist(42) KB_Dist(42) Range(43) Range(43)
44) --> Rock Armor==> EndRdx(44) EndRdx(45) EndRdx(45) Rechg(45) Rechg(46) Rechg(46)
47) --> Grant Invisibility==> Range(47) Range(48) Range(48) EndRdx(48)
49) --> Sonic Haven==> EndRdx(49) EndRdx(50)

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Why Psi epics instead of fire? Sacrifice damage for mez protection?

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I wanted a PvE/STF build, but not strictly a farming build hence some choices like Vengeance and Psi Epic.

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For Epics, I still think Fire is the way to go unless you want IW (like me) or a defence-based shield for IO bonus purposes.

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Also, Psi Tornado damage is not that bad compared to Fire Ball, especially if you have lots of +rechg. And a shield with psi res is... well... nice!

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Wow whatta build. But it will be really really costy.

First you need to buy recipes, Which some of them are have high prices. Secondly Posi has many rare salvages in it it will cost you nearly 8 millions or more.

The more i get into sets the more i start to think, do they worth the inf and effort?

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Yes, this is my lvl 50 respec build and I played my fire/kin a lot during the last DXP weekend (including a few STF runs) to collect inf/recipes. I would suggest starting with the cheaper sets which give +rechg (like Stupefy, or Red Fortune) and leaving the expensive ones (e.g. Posi Blast) and the fancy stuff until later (Numina unique, procs). The LotG +rechg globals are extremely expensive, so could also be left for when you have the inf (or are lucky enough to get a recipe drop). On the toons I'm still levelling, I don't really focus on IO sets much until the 30s (except for a couple of powers, or if I get lucky with drops).

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Thanks guys, I'm almost 100% sure on getting mind epic for the Indomitable Will, which will I hope reduce downtime due to being mezzed. What is the recharge on it assuming, 3x Recharge, Hasten and a siphon speed or three?

And with an extra slot (from where no idea) can get another LotG recharge in there.

According to Mids with the above less the Siphon Speed I get 116s recharge with 90s uptime. With two Siphon Speeds?

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You need +275% rechg from enhances, Hasten itself, IO set bonuses (or globals) and other buffs (SS) to get perma-Hasten. If you get to that, you'll have a 6 sec downtime on IW. This really depends on how much you can get to from IOs. With my +56%, I should reach it if I keep on average 2.5 SS, which is doable when in battle.

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Why are there endo's in LR?

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He's played how many trollers and still doesn't know what a mez is???

and I thought he was leaving anyway...

Carni has given some good tips for a levelling build, so I'll add some suggestions based on my lvl 50 I9 respec build which is the following (just mi$$ing a couple of LotG +rchgs and the Numina unique ):

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.153
http://www.onthejazz.co.uk/hu/mhd.php

Tleo_I9: Level 50 Mutation Controller
Primary Power Set: Fire Control
Secondary Power Set: Kinetics
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Flight
Ancillary Pool: Psionic Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Char -- HO:Endo(A), HO:Nucle(3), HO:Perox(3), HO:Perox(5), RechRdx-I(5), RechRdx-I(7)
Level 1: Transfusion -- Dct'dW-Heal(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(7), Acc-I(23), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(23), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(25), Dct'dW-Rchg(27)
Level 2: Ring of Fire -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(29), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(34), Decim-Build%(34)
Level 4: Siphon Power -- Acc-I(A)
Level 6: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 8: Hot Feet -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(9), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(15), EndRdx-I(17), Sciroc-Dam%(17)
Level 10: Siphon Speed -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(11), RechRdx-I(11), RechRdx-I(37), RechRdx-I(40)
Level 12: Flashfire -- Stpfy-KB%(A), Stpfy-Acc/Rchg(13), Stpfy-Stun/Rng(13), Stpfy-Acc/Stun/Rchg(25), Stpfy-Acc/EndRdx(31)
Level 14: Fire Cages -- Enf'dOp-Acc/Rchg(A), Enf'dOp-EndRdx/Immob(15)
Level 16: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A)
Level 18: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(19), RechRdx-I(19)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(21), EndMod-I(21)
Level 22: Speed Boost -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(40)
Level 24: Maneuvers -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def(34), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(43), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(43), RedFtn-EndRdx(43), LkGmblr-Rchg+(46)
Level 26: Tactics -- HO:Cyto(A), HO:Cyto(27), ToHit-I(50)
Level 28: Inertial Reduction -- ULeap-Stlth(A)
Level 30: Vengeance -- HO:Membr(A), HO:Membr(31), HO:Membr(31)
Level 32: Fire Imps -- SvgnRt-PetResDam(A), SvgnRt-Acc/Dmg(33), SvgnRt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), SvgnRt-Dmg/EndRdx(33)
Level 35: Transference -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(36), EndMod-I(36), EndMod-I(36), RechRdx-I(37), RechRdx-I(37)
Level 38: Fulcrum Shift -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(39), RechRdx-I(39), RechRdx-I(39), RechRdx-I(40)
Level 41: Indomitable Will -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(42), RechRdx-I(42), LkGmblr-Rchg+(42)
Level 44: Mind Over Body -- ImpSkn-Status(A), ImpSkn-ResDam/EndRdx(45), ImpSkn-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(45), ImpSkn-ResDam/Rchg(45), ImpSkn-EndRdx/Rchg(46), Aegis-Psi/Status(46)
Level 47: Psionic Tornado -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dam%(48), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(48), Posi-Dmg/Rng(50)
Level 49: Hover -- Krma-ResKB(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)

I wanted a PvE/STF build, but not strictly a farming build hence some choices like Vengeance and Psi Epic. My main goal was to maximise recharge (without sacrificing any key powers) so I could get perma-Hasten and almost perma IW (this is less important for a farming build if you have a pet empath). I get +56% rechg from set bonuses +18% acc (which makes up for some of the slotting choices, like Transfusion) and a bit of +recov +regen which are less important imo for a kin. The kback protection is very important, other IOs are useful (like the mez resistance) and a few are just icing on the cake (like the stealth in IR, the damage procs or the pet resistance unique).

In terms of powers, Cinders is droppable in the higher levels, but I still found it useful when levelling. Maneuvers I only took to have more def IO slots and because you don't need Assault after Fulcrum. I still prefer HO slotting for some of the powers (including Char), but YMMV depending on which set bonuses you're after. Some people drop Siphon Power in higher levels, I prefer to keep it for stacking purposes when fighting AVs.

For Epics, I still think Fire is the way to go unless you want IW (like me) or a defence-based shield for IO bonus purposes. I've tried them all and, regardless of what some people think, Stone is not as efficient (although it is safer with EE). Psi Tornado has handy k-up and recharges quickly enough for my needs with this build (and complements my fire dmg vs some foes).

Hope some of this helps!