Jade_Dragon
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Quote:Hum. There was another thread on that subject as well. But never mind.Originally Posted by Colonel-Confederate
But i'll say it's lame to put Warshade in as a HEAT when it could have been a VEAT, and be like how a Tank = Brute on the Red side. It would be the opposite basically of a Peace Bringer is what i'm referring to.
So it woulda been Peacebringer = Blue Side, Warshade = Red side, Arachnos (both that they have now)= Red side , Longbow = Blue side ( 2 Versions just like Arachnos).
Basically, I believe that the dev plan was to introduce a Kheldian alternative for the villain side. In short, Nictus. When they developed the Soldiers of Arachnos, however, they realized that to just duplicate what the heroes already had, and just hand it to the villains, "Here you go, we don't really care to give you anything special, just a carbon copy of what the heroes have" wouldn't go over well. They could have given the heroes Longbow as well, but it honestly would not have been any better. The EATs already exist, to just copy them over for parity would be a waste of time.
As I said in the other thread, with Going Rogue there is no longer a problem of parity. You can play a Warshade on the red side as a villain any time you want. You can play an Arachnos Soldier as a Longbow agent on the blue side any time you want. There is no reason to create another AT that is an exact copy of an AT just to have it on the other side.
Peacebringers and Warshades, IMHO, are not different enough to be like Tankers and Brutes. Tankers are not Brutes, and Brutes are not Tankers. They do not share the same Inherent, they do not have the same stats, they have very different strengths and weaknesses. If you play a Tanker like a Brute, you'll be frustrated by the lack of damage, if you play a Brute like a Tanker, you'll get killed. While Peacebringers and Warshades have some major differences, they do share the same stats and inherent, and both have exactly the same form shifting capabilities. So I don't think there is enough difference to make them into two different ATs, and I don't think that the same AT should be native to both sides. -
Basically the way I see it is, your Arachnos troops are like front line troops. They do all the work, they're down in the trenches, they're the cannon fodder who are the first to be sacrificed. They're not particularly well trained or well armed, but they've got numbers.
The superheroes/villains in this game, though, they're the Green Berets. They're the superstars, they get their names up in lights and parades in their honor. Maybe they go in alone and get the hard jobs done, or maybe it's all just flash and good PR, but the thing is everybody loves them. Lord Recluse and his cronies (as they are, after all Green Berets themselves, just at the top of their game) are on the lookout for them and give them all their benefits and favors.
Well, some of the front line grunts get a little ticked about this. They say, "Hey, I could take that hill single handedly, if they just gave me a chance." So, they go out, and take the hill, and all of a sudden they're the ones that their leaders are noticing and they're the ones getting the ticker tape parades.
That's in effect what you as the player of an Arachnos Soldier are. You get tired of being a grunt and put your name on the Destined One list, and in so doing find out that you've actually become a Destined One. By virtue of being arrogant enough to think that you could be more than just a front line grunt, you made yourself into more than just a front line grunt. (Although honestly, I sometimes think Kalinda is no smarter than Azuria on the hero side, if you can fool her so completely into thinking she put you on the list
)
And yeah, the Destined Ones are being recruited to join Arachnos. Or killed if they don't. But in the end you show Lord Recluse you're not to be messed with, and he leaves you alone. So again, you can interpret that as joining Arachnos if you want to, but it's really up to you. (And even if you join Arachnos, you're not an Arachnos Soldier, any more than Ghost Widow or Black Scorpion is an Arachnos Soldier. Again, there's grunts and then there's Green Berets.)
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Echoing last two posts. With Going Rogue it is a minor matter for a Warshade to run around as a Nictus on the red side, or an Arachnos Soldier to be a Longbow on the hero side. It's just a matter of getting to 20 and in the latter case playing around with some costume options.
In fact, I've done both. I think the point is, there is no sense in duplicating the functionality of an existing EAT, when any new EAT would be better if it was something new and totally unique.
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I would say that it is simply easier for the slider to go all the way down to 1 than it would be for the game to figure out what level you got the power at, and force the slider to stop moving at that point. For one thing, different players could pick up the power at different times, so it couldn't just be fixed at the level where it unlocked. Or, it could, but then you would have the same question or "why can I view this for a level where I can't personally use it".
One thing to note, though, is that different ATs may get the same power at different minimum levels. A power some AT can't get until the Epic Pools might be available to another AT from level 1. And it would be the same power, even if altered for the different base stats of the AT. -
Quote:Oh, yes. I didn't say it was average, I said it just comes close to average. It depends a lot on the Primary, of course, Ninja Blades' attacks are all such high DPA that an AS like this wouldn't even come close. For Dual Blades, though, consider that One Thousand Cuts has a scale 0.71 DPA.Originally Posted by Zem
Really? AS is scale 7 damage from Hide. 7/8 seconds is 0.875 scale DPS. Most stalker attack chains should average out better than 1 DPS, I think, except those whose animations are excessively long anyway. Spines maybe?
It's more the effect of applying the Demoralize. And with Placate that's 7/4.5 seconds, which is well above scale 1 DPA. So this would only be if you couldn't use Placate for some reason. (Like it wasn't recharged)
Also, I'll add that while of course it's all subject to human skill and reaction time, you would obviously not attempt this unless you felt you had an exceptional chance to succeed at it. For instance, if the AV was alone and being held, so you could be assured of not being interrupted by an AoE attack or one of his minions. That's just a case of knowing where and when to use your available options. -
Quote:Also, I see now what may have been your source of confusion. Basically, you go back into Hide as long as you are not hit, but also as long as you do not attack. You must stop attacking to go back into Hide. Thus, it's more productive to keep attacking as long as you still have foes around. Placate is useful because it forces you back into Hide immediately without making you wait, although of course your next attack will immediately break the Hide. (And Critical)Originally Posted by Gorndt
I thought you automatically went back into "Hidden" status after a set period of time of not being hit, and that to maximize your damage you'd want to use Assassin Strike at that time and maybe interrupt your combos.
You can use any Power between two attacks in a Dual Blades Combo, as long as it is not a Dual Blades Power. That is, you can add a Brawl or Air Superiority in between attacks of a combo, as long as it doesn't take so long that the time to make the next attack in the combo runs out. You can also use Kuji-In Sha (Heal) or another of your other Ninjitsu powers, but you can't use Placate since it is a Dual Blades attack. (But Placate is itself part of certain combos) -
Quote:You go back into Hide after 8 seconds, actually. I've done some calculations, and found that if you pause for five seconds, and then begin an Assassin Strike, it will go off just as you go into Hide. (I usually count four seconds, and this seems to work well given my reaction time) This will *just* give you a DPA that comes close to average. So it is a viable strategy, but a) only against Bosses and AVs, where you can expect to apply the whole damage, and b) only if you time it perfectly and have made sure you can't be hit during the "wind up".Originally Posted by JD_Gumby
But doing so for your Assassin's attack will severely lower your damage output and any Stalker who stays out of battle long enough to re-Hide before attacking again tends to be severely hated once they're spotted doing this (using Placate once your Assassin's has recharged is a different matter, of course).
OTOH, it may still be useful to do this just for the Demoralize effect. It's still better to preceed it with a Placate, though, which will not cut into AS's DPA nearly as much. -
Waiting to go back into Hide is not the most efficient way to make use of a Stalker's Assassination ability. It is far better to simply use the attack from Hide as a combo opener to begin your attack chain, and then use Placate for controllable Criticals during the fight. When you have finished off the spawn, you have plenty of time to go back into Hide while repositioning yourself for the next opener.
Assassin Strike, of course, is the best opener, but mainly when facing Bosses and AVs. It can be useful for single shotting Lts. (Since you don't have to worry about them attacking you until the attack goes off) but in terms of DPS it doesn't really maximize it. Depending on the situation, it can be more helpful to open with a standard attack and just Crit on it, especially if there's a good chance you will be seen through your stealth.
The idea that Stalkers have to rely on Assassin Strike and are unable to survive in melee long enough to scrap is a fairly common misconception. In fact, Stalkers have exactly the same defensive strength as Scrappers, and only 10% fewer hit points. They also do about 10% less damage, but can usually count on taking out one foe with their first attack.
IIRC, Dual Blades counts Placate for some of its combos, and so there should be no problem making those combos. The problem will be that Dual Blades is not particularly strong, and the combos can be somewhat forced in comparison to Dual Blades on other ATs, since they have to take into account Build Up, Placate and AS. It's not really a problem with compatibility with Ninjitsu.
I will also add that I have found that Smoke Flash is not that useful for initiating a Critical. It can be used with Assassin Strike, as the animation time of the AS can cover part of the time going back into Hide, but it doesn't actually cause the next attack to Crit automatically, like Placate does. Rather, it's more an emergency escape power to get foes off your back if you get in trouble. -
My strategy in the level 24 respec is to basically take the same powers as before, only switching out the gun for the backpack powers. Since you really basically already know how to play that selection of powers, there isn't that much of a learning curve. Longfang switches out for Burst, Suppression for Heavy Burst and so on. Then you can begin picking up and experimenting with any new options (like Aim and Arm Lash) as you go along.
Don't forget, though, that you can still use the gun with Crab attacks, and in fact you'll need to use the gun if you want to keep Wide Area Web Grenade. So you might experiment with dual builds that way, stick with what you know on the main build, and then stick some of those experimental powers you haven't tried yet in the other one. (I notice you don't have WAWG, so I don't know if you dropped it, or had never bothered to pick it up)
You most definately want Fortification as your last selection for the respec, and MOST definately switch out your Wolf armor for the Crab armor as Biowraith said. You need one or the other, but not necessarily both (not until you get to higher level) and the Crab version is better than the Wolf version. So that should really be the first step of your respec, to switch out that armor that you had to take for its upgrade.
Also as Biowraith said, you will get more good out of each slot if you put it in TT:Manuevers for the Def instead of Crab Spider Armor for the Res. Although once you get to 25 you'll want to put some slots in Fortification, too.
The honest truth is, I don't really start slotting defense until the 30s, or at least past 27 or so. You get a lot more mileage by being able to kill foes before they can do any damage to you. Just make sure you have enough End enhancement to keep your toggles up and work on slotting the Primary for a while. Although, a few slots dropped into a good power like TT:M or Fortification can boost your survivability in melee pretty dramatically if you want to go for a tanking role. -
Quote:Yeah, that was my approach to it. Plus, my Crab is a girl, and a little obsessive about the legs. So it wouldn't make sense for her to give them up. I made her second build a Guncrab build, but I stuck with at least some Crab powers so she'd use the legs occasionally. That left me a whole other character to play around with the Bane/Huntsman dual build.Originally Posted by Ideon
I solved the Crab Spider/Huntsman problem by rolling another soldier, haha.
In general, Blasters are going to deal the most direct damage, with mostly self buffing. Corruptors will excel in debuffing their foes and weakening them so they take more damage, but this takes more time to set up ahead of time. Crabs and Hunstmen are sort of in the middle, they buff a little bit, debuff a little bit, and do greater direct damage. They don't get Scourge like Corruptors do, but do a little more damage at the beginning of the fight, and can get some good pets, too. -
Calibrated Accuracy is the only one in that list to (IMHO) avoid. I'm not really sure what it's on about, but in effect it gives you 3 SOs worth of Accuracy Enhancement instead of Damage. I'm not sure what the purpose is the devs put behind that.
Everything else you're talking about a difference of maybe 2-5% once you factor in ED. -
Yeah, Starless Step + Gravity Well is my solution. If I still get surrounded and start getting chain mezzed, well, they asked for the Dwarf to come and put the beatdown on them, I'm just doing what they wanted.
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Quote:Darn it. City of Data didn't list Mud Pots' damage on the main chart. You had to go to the page to see the damage effect. All the other damage auras list their damage, so I'll blame that on a typo.Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
At any rate, Mud Pots doesn't generate Fury any more than any other damage aura, and it is a Taunt aura, so it's drawing aggro because of that, not because of the damage it deals. Although I do note that Brute auras that DO deal damage DO have a Taunt aura. It's just some auras that don't deal damage Taunt and some others don't.
I still think the overriding concern is that the devs will probably decide that any given Brute should not have more than one Taunt aura. Thus it will be in their Secondary.
Ah. That's the first time I've seen that quote attributed. Good to know.Quote:Originally Posted by Rad_Avenger
I was in CoV beta. Jonyu (sp? - the dev assigned to Brutes) explicitly stated that both Spines and Ice were not given to Brutes because the -recharge effects interfered with Fury generation. Period.
I'm not sure that -recharge is the same thing as a mez or stun, as a mez can effectively be controlled. If it is an attack, then it is a momentary reduction in attack rate, and if it is a toggle, then it can be turned off. It's known that Oppressive Gloom is not the best power for Brutes to take, and those that take it can turn it on situationally, to provide extra mitigation in emergencies. A -recharge in every attack you make cannot be turned off, and Chilling Embrace is less useful as damage mitigation if it is turned off.
I do agree, though, that the issue is not as great as it once was. Ice Melee deals more damage now than it once did, and Fury has been changed to be more easily sustainable. I think I would still like to see Ice Armor made unique for Brutes just for cosmetic reasons, I'd simply like to see it, but I think the -recharge in Ice or Spines would be possible to compensate for, now. -
Quote:But again, attacks Taunt on ACTIVATION. Auras taunt automatically. It would certainly be possible to add a Taunt effect to Quills, but I don't know if its necessarily conclusive that the devs would make it so, just because other AoE attacks Taunt when activated. (Besides, most Brute attacks are single target, and only taunt the target hit. That makes Brute punchvoke less AoE oriented than Tanker Gauntlet)Originally Posted by TheBruteSquad
Well since brutes taunt with their melee sets (punchvoke) it wouldn't make a lot of sense for quills to NOT have a taunt aspect.
Okay, let's put this another way. How would you MAKE Quills generate Fury? Because the way Fury is currently implemented, it would not.Quote:Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
We have no way of knowing this one way or the other, because Spines brutes do not exist.
Again, Fury is generated on activation. (This is due to the way the code works, punchvoke, at least, COULD be generated per tic) Even if the devs did add an effect to the attack that added Fury, like the AV bonus, it would only be generated on hit. And it would be generated for each target hit. That's not how Fury generation works for AoE attacks. (Well, okay, now that I think about it the Fury could be generated on Self instead of Target. It would still be a workaround) -
Quote:Yes, but that is because the enemies are attacking you. Mud Pots is a taunt aura, thus it is drawing and holding aggro. Mud Pots doesn't even DEAL damage. The Fury that it generates is entirely due to the attacks of the aggroed foe on you.Originally Posted by je_saist
Fury gain rate is steady with no attacks other than Mud Pots running and the enemies attacking, and Damage Aura count went up, not stayed the same.
You stated that Quills would generate Fury directly because it is hitting the targets. This isn't true. It may indirectly generate Fury because the foes hit by the Quills would attack you, but this does NOT build ADDITIONAL Fury. Since it's so easy to build 75% Fury it would manage that just fine, but it would not be able to help generate the 80% and higher Fury other Melee sets might be able to.
This does bring up a question to my mind, though, which is would Quills generate a Taunt aura for Brutes? It does not for Scrappers, but many auras that do not generate Taunt for Scrappers are taunt auras for Brutes. However, Dark Armor, the one Power Set that has multiple aura powers that are capable of generating taunt, only taunts with Death Shroud for Brutes. It is possible that the devs may decide that, as Spines is a melee set and thus not intended to supplement a Brute's aggro holding ability, Quills will not get a taunt aura. In that case the aggro generated would be multiplied only by whatever other taunt auras and other Taunt abilities the Brute has.
I think that if it had a taunt aura it might actually be able to maintain higher Fury, at least on larger teams, but if it does not, then it would really not add much more than a good selection of normal AoE attacks would give you. I mean, it's going to be up there with Electric/Fire and Electric/Shield, but not way more than that. -
Quote:Is this true of Blazing Aura, Lightning Field, and Death Shroud? I don't believe so, and if not, then I see no reason why Quills would be different.Originally Posted by je_saist
Quills.
Fury is based on hits and getting hit. Each quill strike counts as a hit.
[edit] No, I know this isn't true. Fury is generated when you make an attack. You do not get multiple applications of Fury if the attack is a DoT, and you generate Fury whether you attack or not. Thus, it is based on activation, not hits. A damage aura would not generate Fury.
It would respond to Fury, whereas as you noted, damage auras do not Critical. But it would do nothing to generate or maintain Fury. -
I don't think there's any more to Brutes not having access to Spines than there was to Brutes not having access to Claws. They used to not get Claws, now they do. They used to not get Mace and Axe, now they do. It's just a matter of the devs can't just Proliferate every single Power Set that can be Proliferated at one time.
Spines may wind up doing a bit too much damage on Brutes, after all, Claws apparently did, because its damage was reduced slightly. But IIRC that wasn't due to a large amount of AoE damage, it was because Claws has an extremely fast attack rate. Quills is a constant AoE attack, but it doesn't generate Fury, and Spines' other attacks have fairly long animation times. So at worst I would expect it to get a slight adjustment like Claws got.
The more likely reason Brutes didn't even get Spines in the first place was that it was ported to Dominators as Thorny Assault. Since it is a pseudo-ranged Power Set to start with, it fits Doms better than "pure" meleers. For that reason, it may be low priority to be ported over to Tankers or Brutes. But I don't see any reason why, given enough time, it would be Proliferated eventually. -
Quote:Well, honestly, I think that's my point. By that time you've got people changing Origins all over the place. To me, your Origin is where you start. It's the core or foundation of your powers, so to speak. Captain America may use a high tech shield or employ combat training he learned in the military, but what got him STARTED on that road was the will that caused him to enroll in the Supersoldier program because he was otherwise too physically unfit to serve his country when he felt that was needed.Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma
For a while he had Stark add all sorts of tech to his original shield that let him control it mid flight. During that period of time he could cause it to swerve mid-air without hitting anything. Later tore all that tech out. Currently he has an energy shield built by Stark I believe. Thus CA might have a case for natural, tech, and science origins.
'Course, that almost makes it sound like Natural. The thing is, though, without the Supersoldier serum, none of the rest of it would ever have happened.
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It's my understanding that the point of greatest importance is not the elevation at which you take off, but the PEAK of your jump.
That is, when leaping off of a high building, do NOT press and hold the space bar. Approach the edge of the building, and tap the space bar to "hop" off of it.
I do this all the time, and I am able to avoid falling damage most of the time. I believe the rule is that you do not take damage as long as you fall a shorter distance than the maximum height you can jump. However, this is measured from your peak, so you essentially need to make sure your peak is the same elevation as your takeoff point.
I actually think I'll double check this to make sure it's true. But either way, once you get into the 30s or so, falling damage is so small compared to your overall HP it's no longer really an issue. -
It's my guess that the to hit debuff in Dark powers is due to the reduction of visibility in the clouds of darkness, not the fact that the foe is scared.
Of course, that contradicts Demoralize and the Vigilante Alignment Power, but there you go.
The good news I suppose is that Fearsome Stare and Touch of Fear don't scare the LIFE out of your foe, while Terrify does.
(It's actually quite intentional that Terrify does so much damage. Its damage was raised in way back in the day, when Controller pets got nerfed so you could only have out one (one set, for Imps) at a time and Containment was added. As Mind has no direct pets, Terrify was given greater damage to compensate) -
Quote:*Nods* An example of the opposite that I like to use is Captain America. His Origin is apparently Science, he got his "powers" from an experimental serum. But he has no real powers, he can't fly or teleport or control the flight path of his sheild with his mind or anything. Like Batman, his so-called "powers" are in his skill with the weapons that he uses, and a physical fitness level which is at the peak of human ability.Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma
Consider, Manticore is Natural origin. And he's a TA/A defender with teleport pool for travel. Why is he natural instead of tech? Because he doesn't RELY on tech. Take away his fancy bow, take away his trick arrows, and he could still out fight many villains. How does he teleport? By tapping into the mediport system for his own use.
You can't really associate Origin with any particular Power Set, because powers don't really tell you where the power comes from. Some of the game graphics can make it harder to pick one Origin over another, but there's no saying whether the ability to throw fire is a mutation, a magic spell, the result of an accident, a gadget or weapon, or some sort of high technology. And even then there's the possibility that you shoot fire from your hands because you're a mutant, but you toss grenades or wear a jetpack because otherwise your power wouldn't give you that ability.
Which is not to say that the "theme" of gadgets and gizmos doesn't need a representative Control Power Set.
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Outside of the fact that a pure Human Form Peacebringer is going to be somewhat less powerful than a multiform, it's certainly a reasonable choice. My own Green Lantern homage I tried out as a Kheldian, but didn't like it primarily due to the inability to color the blasts. I will probably pick him back up again when Customization becomes an option. (Not if, when. One slip like that can cause the Great Pumpkin to pass you by...)
I would think that with the blue-white blasts and the knockback, it would fit an Iron Man concept as well or better. I typically suggest FF/Energy Defender for that concept, since FF Corruptors are not yet available. But a Peacebringer would do more damage than the theoretical FF Corruptor, plus have melee attacks, higher damage mitigation (albeit in the form of Res, not Def) and an HP boost and heal the FF would not have. The only advantage the FF would have in the comparison would be its status protection, which your Human Form PB would lack on a team with no Controllers/Dominators. -
Dark Armor's Cloak of Darkness can be customized to disable Translucency, I would like to see Hide and other Stealth powers effected the same way. The problem, I think, is that CoD does not suppress, and thus its translucency is constant. If you made Hide customizable, you could change the "base" translucency, but then you'd disappear when you went into the Hidden state like always. Alternatively, if you eliminated the translucency on suppression, then it would ALWAYS be eliminated. You couldn't customize it since it's tied to an effect of the power, not just the toggle being on.
What I'd like to see is if the devs could implement a function to increase (or decrease, actually) Translucency. Then they can simply set it to increase by 25% or so when unsuppressed, so if your base Translucency is 20%, it goes to 45%, but if it's 50%, then it would go to 75%.
The Pulse option could then be implemented by having the base go from 0% to 50% and back again. You'd "pulse" all the time, but it would be less when suppressed. I'd also like to see a "Shadow" option that basically turns your character black, like the Shadowy Presence power.
I must admit to being a little confused that Hide actually has no base Translucency, according to City of Data. Then again, neither does Cloak of Darkness, so it's possible the base translucency is in the graphic for the power itself, as with Cloak. Stealth does have a base translucency of 50%, as does Superior Invisibility and Group Invisibility. (30%)
Alternatively, I would suggest making the "shadowing" effect the effect of unsuppressing stealth, so that the base effect can be either 50% Translucency or a Pulse option, and then the Hidden status would be indicated by the character turning black. Although this would obviously hide the details of the costume. (And it would be possible to create an all black costume that would not show the change) -
Quote:Wouldn't that mean Assault Rifle, Archery, Devices, Traps and Trick Arrow are also Tech and not Natural?Originally Posted by _Pine_
Sounds like a Tech background, not a Natural Background :P
Just had to say it.
You honestly can't have any kind of Ranged, Buff/Debuff or Control Power Set in which you just use your bare hands. You have to use SOME kind of weapon to achieve a greater than 7 foot range.
(Of course, none of those are Tech, Natural, or any other Origin. You can have a Magic hero that uses a machine gun and traps, if you want to...) -
Redraw was eliminated from Broadsword and Battle Axe in Issue 12. The patch notes say "Attack times... have been normalized to eliminate pauses between attacks", but the "pauses" are the redraw times. Claws was later altered here. Presumably, War Mace had already eliminated the redraw time, according to BaB it was inconsistent whether redraw time was included in a cast time or not.
It's funny that this argument still comes up. All sets that include a "weapon", which is any set that requires a change in stance to activate a power, causes redraw, which takes additional time. If you use a power that does not match the stance of the weapon, then the weapon is put away and must be drawn again.
Honestly, I see no reason to use a weapon based Control Primary as grenades and other gadgets, similar to Traps and Devices, would work just as well, and a "Riot Gun" that fired all sorts of different payloads would be unnecessarily complicated. However, any weapon-based Secondary, from one using pistols to a machine gun or a bow would obviously have to have a weapon and draw it.
At least a bow-based Control set would not force redraw with a bow-based Assault set. (Or, for that matter, Trick Arrow, where Controllers are concerned) But it would do nothing for an Assault Set based on pistols or martial arts, or any of the existing Secondaries.
(BTW, just to say it, I believe Thorns/Spines does NOT have redraw. There is a pause between attacks if you already have the quills out. I think this is because the tech involved with those graphics is a little different. However, I'm not 100% sure, and this isn't about Thorns anyway, it's about a new set having redraw)