Jade_Dragon

That is awful...

I don't believe that's what BaBs is saying. I don't believe he said, "Well, we could have made the Spines customizable, or we could have made the Toxins customizable. We also could have done both, but I was too lazy. So I just stopped at the Spines and that's good enough, 'cause it's good enough for the weapons."

I believe what he said was, "Well, we could have made the Spines customizable, or we could have made the Toxins customizable, or we could have made Spines and Toxins share the same color. Since it's the Spines that the players usually feel makes them unique, we decided to let you customize that, while the Toxins, which are independent of what kind or appearance of spines you have, we left alone rather than making them match the spines."

He never explicitly said the Spines and Toxins couldn't be each set to a different color, but I believe that's strongly implied. Even the original post didn't talk about making them a different color, actually, he was talking about making them the same. But BaBs' stated his reason for making them different, which means he was limited to making the Toxins remain the same.

That's true, the weapon is shared across all Powers that use the weapon, and so that's why there needs to be one selection and color choice instead of one for each Power. Otherwise you could have the sword change color and shape every time you swung it. And just drawing it is not associated with any Power, and so there needs to be some way to define the selection and color independent of Power.

On the other hand, you assume that the mechanism used to assign selection and color to Powers isn't used to assign selection and color of Weapons. Unless you have inner knowledge of the code you aren't telling me about, you don't know that. You are merely assuming that, because there is only one interface to set the selections, and not one for each Power. Yet, it could easily be a single selection which is then copied to all powers.

Again, I don't think BaBs said anything about redraw, he was talking about his decision to allow the Spines to be customized, but not the Toxin effects. Again, if he could have made the Spines set on the Costume screen, and the Toxins set on the Power Customization screen, then that would solve the problem. But he didn't say that that was an option, merely that they could "do both". If that truly meant he could set them separately, I would think he would have said that that could be a possibility later.

I suppose, but the interface would not support such a change. The way the interface works, animations go with colors. Picking one requires pick of the other. (Unless you choose the Legacy)

I guess you could have an interface where if you choose a Rapier, the Broadsword animations would change to be more lunges and stabs, instead of swings. But my perception is that that's not what we are talking about. What we are talking about is selecting a weapon model, a particular type of sword and color for it, and THEN selecting a separate animation from a list that can all be applied to that sword.

The best you can hope for, if you make some BIG assumptions about what BaBs was describing in his post, is that you can use the Power Customization interface to choose different animations, and the color selectors will be greyed out. And even that, I think, you are reaching for. Unless BaBs comes into this thread and says, "Oh, yeah, I could do that", I think that's wishful thinking.

That's what I was saying. Look at every Melee attack in the game. Most of them have either Smashing or Lethal as part of the damage. The exception is primarily Fire Melee, and even it has Fire Sword, which is Fire/Lethal, and Cremate, which is Fire/Smashing.

Not to say that making Rad more like Fire Melee wouldn't be a bad idea. Just giving it an AoE, like Irradiate, for a Blaster, would certainly make it different from Energy, which doesn't have any AoEs.

And no, I don't mean EXACTLY like Fire Melee. Obviously, it would have -Def debuff and be somewhat faster than Fire. I was talking about the AoEs and utility powers, instead of just being primarily single target damage.

I don't believe any redname has said that, and in fact that contradicts what BaBs said.

Note that this is about customizing and tinting the weapon AND the VFX. The problem with Power Customization in the first place was that the color tinting of the VFX was not "connected" to the character, and could not be inherited from him. Assuming that the devs developed a mechanism to do that for weapon models, then if the same mechanism is used for power tinting, you cannot customize both at the same time.

If you can quote a direct post from redname saying that weapon sets can have their graphics customized independently, and that is planned for future development, then I will admit I was wrong. But until then, I'm not going to recommend holding out for features that can't be implemented.

Note that if BaBs had chosen to adjust the Spines and the VFX he could have made them the SAME color. Which means you can theoretically have a green Broadsword and have its VFX be the SAME color, green. But BaBs rejected that for the very reason he gave, the weapon is intended to be the individual and unique portion of the character concept, and he didn't want to limit the VFX because, for instance, a green flash looks gaudy or doesn't support your concept.

Well, Peacebringer powers are basically Energy Melee. Which is really the problem, I can see Rad Melee being too much like Energy Melee. Rad Blast and Energy Blast are different because Energy has a Smashing component while Rad doesn't. But Rad Melee would have to have a Smashing component if you're using Rad boosted punches.

Actually, now that I think about it, this might be the place to have an Energy Sword. Make it a "Radiation Sword", and make it look like, well, a Light Saber. I've got a concept that could use it (although I'm not rerolling her for it) and others have mentioned it as well. I've always thought it a little strange that Fire and Ice had swords, but there's no Energy Sword. Or even, for that matter, a Lance or Axe. (Add a little variety)

In keeping with Rad Blast, it might also be a somewhat faster Set, something like Claws or Super Strength. The "punch with Radiation" attack could be a quick Jab.

Of course, I'm talking about a Melee Set, we're talking about Manipulation, but that's part of it. Sonic, too, there would have to be a Sonic Melee set. We need a Psionic Melee set, with some of the attacks from Mental Manipulation. And yeah, a Martial Arts or Weapon set for a Blaster Secondary, they already exist as Melee and MA could be combined with buffs similar to Energy Manipulation, only based on "chi".

The problem with a Broadsword or Katana Manipulation Set is, while it makes conceptual sense when combined with a bow, can you imagine what the redraw would be like? And of course, do you make swords, axes, maces, and all that different Power Sets, or do you try to define one set and use customization to let you pick your weapon? It will only be used for one or two attacks anyway, the rest would need to be more buff or control type powers.

Actually, a Defender at level 8 would do some serious damage with SOs, since the damage modifier is not at its lowest point yet. So that will increase the effect that you're talking about.

The biggest issue I see is the low number of Enhancement Slots at that level. Just out of efficiency, you will want to put them all into attacks. And Yin's Market, while it might provide level 10 IOs (I don't remember if the minimum is 15, actually) it only provides one type. So while you might pick the Origin that would give you Damage, that really wouldn't help boost the bubbler's defensive capabilities.

That and, at level 8, if you're building for defense you probably wouldn't have that many atttacks.

Honestly, the amount of time it would take to run AV missions and collect Defense SOs, as low as the odd seem to be of rolling them, I'm not sure it's worth it.

I'd say that the Origin for Accuracy might be more helpful, but again, at level 8 you still get your bonus to to hit for low level.

While that may not be precisely what BaBs says, it strongly implies it. The current interface allows customization of the animation or the graphics through the Power Customization Screen. Currently, you can EITHER customize the animation and color, as with Super Strength and Martial Arts, OR you can only customize the graphics. However, as there are multiple selections for the graphics, Dark and Bright options, and so on, as well as the original Legacy choices, I would guess that the ability to change the animation associated with one of those graphics types would be simple enough to add. You would just have the animations as additional choices just as the animations for SS and MA are selectable choices.

The problem is that there is ONE selector in the interface for those options. You cannot change BOTH the animation for a power AND its graphics separately. Each power has an animation and a graphic that is linked to it. There is a Bright Foot Stomp and a Dark Foot Stomp, a Bright Ground Punch and a Dark Ground Punch. But you can't select Bright and Dark separately from Foot Stomp or Ground Punch. This doesn't mean you can't have both Bright and Dark for both, but it's four different options. (And you wouldn't want to have the animation from Foot Stomp with the glow from your fist for Ground Punch anyway)

Powers that have a selectable weapon, which is selected on the Costume Screen, disable the ability to select animation and graphic. According to BaBs, this is a limitation of the system. If you could change the animation, then you could change the graphic, and if you can change the weapon, then you CAN'T change the graphic. Or at least, BaBs chose not to make it so. You can argue about that fact all you want, but if the current interface doesn't support it, then it doesn't support it.

Honestly, I don't know how Power Customization works. A while ago, I suggested an "invisible weapon", for sets like Energy Melee, from which the color information for the aura could be read. However, Power Customization is obviously on a per Power basis, and each has its own separate color information. This is saved in a power definition file of a sort, and probably broadcast from the server in its own structure, like a costume. So I can't say that the "slot" used to define the weapon uses up a slot that would be used to link to the power customization. But whatever the system, until BaBs is more clear on it, I'm afraid it's just not going to be possible.

Amusingly enough, Broadsword and Katana were the example of what Power Customization was back in Issue 1. If you wanted an alternate model for your weapon, YOU HAD TO CHOOSE A DIFFERENT POWER SET!

Fortunately, Katana was made unique, as you say, and true Power Customization did eventually come out. The potential for the future, whatever the limitations, is still pretty high. I expect we will still see different animations coupled to different graphic choices, and more options overall.

Ditto.

Clever and logical. Nice coding, man.

Now I want a Squirrel Power Set...

Seriously, though, this should not be the case with normal attacks in the game. The only attacks that should have really low damage compared to their recharge should be those that are not damage dealing powers, such as Cobra Strike or Tesla Cage. Normally the damage formula should make damage and recharge proportional.

The bigger issue is going to be animation time. You could have a situation where you have an attack that is so low DPS, it is more efficient to wait until another attack has recharged so you can use it right away. (This is the reason Sniper attacks, or Jump Kick or Propel, are not considered useful by some players)

Wikipedia has a pretty good background of the Rick Roll and the "duck roll" that preceeded it.

Honestly, I always thought the joke of it was that the video was "Never Gonna Give You Up", and was following you around the Internet. Like it would take over links to take you back to it. That may not be the original thought, but I think it's funny.

And that Muppet version is one of my favorites. Mainly because, although it's obviously edited and repeats a lot, the sound is so well synchronized to Beaker's mouth movements.

Yes, but Brawl has to be specifically coded, that way, and the devs have stated that Brawl breaks all the rules, to the point where it is the most complex attack in the game.

Obviously it is POSSIBLE, because as I said, Shield is able to do it. Whether or not that is due to a kludge, though, because Sheild is able to take advantage of the ability to use a limited number of stances, or what, I do not know. But from what I understand this is a limitation of the ENGINE. The devs can code around it, but they can't get rid of the restriction.

I suppose BaBs could clarify if I am wrong. It would be a lot simpler to just recode Devices so it can be used in multiple stances, instead of them all. But as you say, if that requires four animations per power, one for each of four different stances, instead of just two, well, that's a lot more work, and impossible if the maximum number of stances for one power is only two or three. (And remember that flying uses up a stance as well)

Yeah, that's the problem. While thematically and conceptually it works, technically it's not possible. You MUST have a single stance for a power, you can't have "do this if you have a weapon, do this if you don't." Either you have a weapon, which requires you draw it if you don't have it out when you activate the power, or you don't. As long as that limitation exists in the game engine, any resolution to the problem is merely a kludge.

Actually, in this case they did solve the problem. If I'm understanding correctly, they did add a whole new animation set for two difference stances. One with the shield out, one without. The problem is not that this isn't possible, it's the amount of time it would take to do it. If if they implemented a new set that used two different animations, one in the weapon stance and one not, then the players would ask, "Well, why can't I do that with Devices? Why can't I do that with Fire?"

The amount of time it would take to revamp every single Blaster Secondary would make adding the feature not worth it, no matter how useful it would be in one set.

Which is why I actually suggested adding a weapon that would have to be redrawn if the Primary DIDN'T have a weapon. Although it would be irritating to constantly redraw the Secondary weapon, the players wouldn't have a precedent to say, "remove the redraw from my favorite Set". Besides, Trick Arrow/Energy for Defenders, or Fire/Trick Arrow for Controllers forces a redraw when you use the Trick Arrows, and there is very little complaint about that. Because using the bow as a launching platform for the debuffs makes conceptual sense.

I'm not sure you were here for the original Beta, but originally the Blaster Secondary was Melee. The only difference between Blaster Melee and Tanker and Scrapper Melee was that the first power was replaced with the first power we have now, a ranged Immobilize power. Otherwise, the Set had all of the applicable melee attacks, including the powerful ones like Total Focus, Greater Fire Sword, and so on.

Energy Melee is still the most like this, probably because the stun associated with the attacks was a useful form of mitigation. With the other Secondaries, however, it was quickly determined that Ranged/Melee was unworkable. With no defense and no control powers for mitigation, moving into melee was suicide. So no one ever took the Blaster Secondary Powers. The devs finally changed the Secondary from "Melee" to "Support", and added the control powers and damage auras that the Sets have now, taking them from Control and Defense sets.

Devices was the last to arrive, and it replaced an earlier set that was based on Medieval Weapons, an early concept that combined all the Weapon types into one. You would draw a sword, mace, axe or whatever with each individual Power and swing it. The redraw, as you might guess, was horrendous. My memory fails me at this point, but I believe in early testing they had replaced Medieval Weapons with Broadsword, and the Blaster version used a Crossbow for the first Power, then the sword for all the rest as with Scrappers.

At any rate, that was thrown out entirely, and Devices was its replacement. Which is why it is so different from the other Manipulation Sets. They designed it from the ground up around what they felt the "new" Blaster needed; some control powers, some stealth, maybe a little defense, and a couple of really powerful explosive (pun intended) melee range powers. Whether the "mine" concept was considered inherent to that, or just they thought it fit a Devices idea more than a PBAoE I don't know, but to my mind the mines have always been the Devices' version of the melee attacks. That's how I use them anyway, to protect myself in case something gets too close.

That's really why the Manipulation Sets are so different, because the devs really didn't have a unified concept when they came up with them. They still need work, and the devs have said as much. It hasn't ever come to anything, but there you go. I think the Dominator Assault sets have been more unified, they are obviously Ranged/Melee while the Primary is Control. That means by inference that Blasters should probably be Ranged with Melee/Control as Secondary. It's just not nearly as uniform in implementation.

And at this point I've gone way off topic.