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Quote:I'd be willing to bet you have a lot more time to play than I do.Well, I believe the people doing stuff that's not very fun to obtain rewards has the idea of having more fun later in result of the rewards. Like for example, farming for influence and recipe drops in order to IO a charcter quickly. Sure, you can play the regular way and have fun although it will take significantly longer and some people may not want to invest that much time so they'll take the quicker route. Or maybe people just have more fun playing with uber builds that the period of having no fun is an acceptable sacrifice in order to have more time having fun.
Now, I don't find farming the most fun thing to do, but I do it anyways. For example I farm and PL PvP toons. Sure I can level up the character the right way and maybe have fun, but you bet I want my shiny lvl 50 now so I can have even more fun with it.
I'm lucky if I can fit in 3 hours of playtime across an entire week. When I get to play, it is one of the few times during my average day that I get to do anything just for the fun of it, without it having to be productive in some way.
It just doesn't make any sense to me to spend that time not enjoying myself so I can maybe have fun 2 months from now. If I had more time, perhaps I could stomach doing something I don't enjoy for the rewards, but since I don't have the time, I see no point in playing at all if it's not fun.
It seems the willingness to do things you don't like so you can have fun later is directly proportionate to the amount of time you have available to play. -
A guess:
It's a leftover strongpoint from the Rikti War. With the two guard towers and the wall surrounding it, it looks like it was designed to give troops some cover to fight from.
If that's the case, it's kind of a nice touch that stuff like this is still around reminding people that this city was the site of a major conflict not that long ago. I mean, you still see Civil War era forts standing in places, and medieval castles are still all over the countryside in Europe, so it isn't too farfetched that some fortified areas would still exist in a city that was a full-blown battleground less than a decade ago. -
Quote:I like the traveling. It makes it feel like a CITY of Heroes, rather than a Neighborhood of Heroes.-pre-Striga Isle content cleaned up to match post Striga Isle content( that is no more randomingly sending you all over PC w/o a good reason, fewer hunt mish, and move those missions not part of a story arc to radio missions)
It baffles me when I see people complaining about travel time in a game where we can cover a mile in 30 seconds or less. We have more options for travel powers than we have ever had and people don't want to actually use them? I still take the long way to get to a mission a lot of the time, simply because I enjoy flying or leaping through the city and getting the feel that it actually IS a city.
And it makes perfect sense to be sent to the Hollows, or Boomtown, or Crey's Folly, or Dark Astoria for a mission. If you're a villain, and you want to do something nefarious, wouldn't it make more sense to do it someplace no one goes to? There is no police presence in any of those zones, which makes them ideal places for villains to set up shop.
Personally, I'd like to see those zones actually have a couple story arcs taking place in them. Maybe something that actually explains how Dark Astoria got to be foggy and zombie infested. Or an arc that goes into why Boomtown is a blasted out ghost town. Faultline got that treatment when they introduced Jim Tremblor as a contact and revamped the zone, But DA, Boomtown, and Crey's Folly are just big empty zones, with nothing to do in them unless you are sent there randomly by a contact. Oh, and they have Giant Monsters wandering around in them, who are apparently bored and lonely because no one cares they are there anymore.
So, that's what I'd like to see sometime soon. Something to actually DO in the zones the devs created and then apparently forgot about. I suspect they were made when street sweeping was what everyone did to level and they wanted to give them different locations to do that in, but when the game gravitated more to story arcs and door missions they got left behind. -
Quote:True, but there is a caveat to that.Rule number 1 is a negative rule: Do not, on a regen, build for more regen.
Don't build for regen, unless there is nothing else useful you can gain for the slots you're using.
Like Fast Healing for example. Chances are, you probably aren't going to need more recovery, so you can go ahead and put Numina's in there for the regen bonus, because none of the other heal sets offer anything useful. -
Quote:Instant Healing is no longer a toggle. (not sure if it was when you left or not, just throwing it out there)Really? Back when it wasnt that good. I'm curious as to the reasoning behind your suggestion.
Regen is HIGHLY susceptible to burst damage, and there are MANY things in the game that can one or two shot a scrapper at HP cap. If they don't hit you, they can't one shot you.
You can build a BS/Regen scrapper pretty easily to be permanently at or more likely above the softcap on melee defense.
Since you left LONG before the devs gave us the numbers behind the powers, I'll explain.
An NPC that cons even to you has a 50% chance to hit you if you have 0% defense. The game will not allow the chance to hit of anything (that includes you as well) to go below 5%. So, if you reach 45% defense, your enemy's chance to hit you is as low as it will ever get.
With IOs (another thing added since you left) you can get a /Regen scrapper up to around 30% defense to melee attacks with some effort. If you do that you will only need 1 Parry to hit the softcap. If you get up to 15% defense (much easier to do) you can softcap with 2 Parries, which is pretty easy because it recharges really fast and lasts 10 seconds.
So, if your survivability is good with your heals, imagine how good it will be if only 1 out of every 20 attacks needs to be healed back at all.
Parry (and it's cousin Divine Avalanche in Katana) is actually the only real reason anymore to choose Broadsword over Dark Melee (it got buffed) or Fire Melee (it's just that freaking good) if you're after pure damage.
I have a Broadsword/Dark Armor that is the hardest character out of my entire roster to kill (including my tanks, brutes, and other scrappers), and it is largely because of Parry. -
Quote:The most you can have is 1 of each.Will the build-up procs stack from different powers? Does it matter if they are from different sets? For example, 1 gaussian and 2 decimation procs, how many can be active at once?
But yes, they can go off at the same time. However, the odds against that happening are astronomical. (In other words, it could happen, but you'll probably never actually see it happen) -
Quote:This.It depends on how you play your blaster. If you plan to be in melee range often, S/L def will be more helpful than ranged. If you plan to stay away from the mobs most of the time, ranged def is better.
There isn't a consensus that one or the other is always better.
Example: I have 2 blasters, a Fire/Fire and a Sonic/Devices. They could not be more different. With the Fire/Fire having a LOT of powers that require me to be in melee range, S/L defense is better for him. My Sonic/Devices on the other hand, is a pure Hover-blaster, who almost never even touches the ground, let alone enters melee range, for him ranged is the better option.
It really depends on your powersets and how you play the character as to which will be better for you. -
Quote:The stumbling block here is that it is outright impossible to design content that 100% of the playerbase will agree is "good". No matter what you do, there will be some subsection of the playerbase that doesn't like it.They key to making content good is to make good content first and only then worrying about rewards.
SwellGuy summed up my point nicely, even though I doubt he meant to.
I'm willing to wait for my rewards that I earn through doing what I enjoy doing. I am NOT willing to spend my limited play time not having fun just to get those rewards sooner. I'll get them eventually, there is no need for me to have them RIGHT NOW.
What I've gotten from this thread is that there are a significant number of people playing the game that are perfectly willing to not have fun if it means they can have their shinys now as opposed to later. Which I suppose is okay if that's what they want to do, but I still can't claim to really understand it. -
Quote:The difference here is: I don't really CARE that I could be getting those rewards more efficiently.What I observe is that people become offended when what they do for fun does not align with the efficient means to obtain given rewards. (This is a corollary the notion that people will do things they find un-fun to obtain rewards they want. They want what they do find fun to give good rewards.) Incarnate abilities are a great example of this: a great deal of the argument about them arises because teaming and running TFs and trials (a narrow subset of teaming) are the fastest way to get them, but a lot of people like to solo.
People want to know that what they're doing for fun is efficient. It bothers them when they know that what they want to do to have fun and what they need to do to achieve a goal most quickly are not aligned. Most people I know are wired to seek the most efficient means of achieving their goals. IMO, if you meet someone who doesn't seem wired this way, the reality is that you don't recognize that they actually just have different goals.
My priorities have changed quite a bit from when I first started playing (the reason is in my sig).
Some people don't mind doing something they don't enjoy to get something they do. Those people usually have the luxury of spending several hours playing, and can do the unfun part and go on to do what they enjoy.
I, on the other hand, manage to squeeze in an hour or so every few days between working 2 jobs and other obligations. The LAST thing I want to do is spend that hour doing something I don't enjoy just because it gives better rewards than what I do enjoy.
Since my playtime is extremely limited, I COULD have gone off on a tangent about how it isn't fair that I can't get the same rewards in an hour that someone else gets in 6. But I didn't. I adjusted my expectations of what I would be able to do in the game (which I'm fine with, family is more important)
That led me to the question of why getting better rewards leads people to spend so much of their entertainment time not enjoying themselves. -
Quote:You're actually serious, aren't you?Double XP on an efficient 8-man team is what I call a decent pace. Not even fast, mind you - just decent.
So, if it takes you more than one weekend to hit the level cap in the game, it's too slow?
Because I've seen many teams do exactly that on double XP weekends.
I'm in agreement with the person who said your unreasonable expectations of the game are the problem. I'm honestly confused as to why you're still here, you claim to like the game, but I have NEVER seen a post from you that wasn't purely or at least containing a complaint about how horrible something about the game is.
It really seems like you actually hate the game, and only play it so you have something to complain about. -
Strange that you mentioned in in your OP, but I actually DID meet my wife while playing CoH.
Other things about the game and forums I appreciate.
-I can log in and not feel like I have to spend 8-10 hours playing in order to get anywhere. As opposed to other MMOs where, if you take a break you have to play catch up to get back to where the people you play with are. I can log in for a half hour and put a level on a lowbie, and it's fine because i didn't fall behind anyone else.
-The development team, which has displayed an amazing capacity for actually listening to their players. Too many games' developers take the stance of "If they don't like what we do, they can play something else". Here, our devs will listen to our feedback and make changes accordingly. (the thing with the APP power replacement leading to there now being 5 powers in the pools is a perfect example)
-The forums, for giving me an outlet to debate things that never (or very seldom at least) gets personal. Maybe it's a character flaw of mine, but I enjoy debating things, and will frequently debate something I don't feel particularly strongly about for the sake of the debate itself.
-The costume creator and available powersets, for letting me create (nearly) anything I can imagine. It has it's limits, but it is more versatile than any other character creator I have ever used. -
Quote:And your approach is fine, nothing wrong with it at all.Am I odd in that I really enjoy playing most of this game then? I'm pretty happy doing just about everything there is to do in game. Sure, if I farm for ages for a specific thing I'll get bored but go do something else and there's usually a TF to jump on for a while or something else going. A quick change of toon and the focus shifts and it keeps being fun for me.
Believe me, if I wasn't having fun playing this game the way I wanted to play it, I wouldn't, but sometimes the goals/rewards are part of the fun, in achieving them.
Now, if you farmed for ages for a specific thing and got bored, but didn't go do something else for a while, just sat there being bored and not having fun, that would be what I was talking about. -
Quote:He'll also be affected by every debuff that lands as part of an attack.The problem with a pure resistance tanker is that he'll get hit by most of the attacks thrown at him, they'll just do less damage. Even level Minions will hit 50% of the time while LT's and Bosses will hit more often... this is why resistance tankers tend to perform poorer than those that combine moderate resistance with good defense.
Resistance based sets like Fire or Dark generally don't have much (if any) defense debuff resistance. So, if you find yourself fighting a mixed mob of Crey Cryo Tanks and the mobs with machine guns, you will be getting your defense debuffed by the machine guns, meaning those Cryo Tanks will be near 95% to-hit.....with all those slows they're packing.
That alone is a good reason to add some defense to resistance based characters. -
Quote:I'm in agreement with this.First, I'm of the opinion that Scrappers should never get it - if you want to use the set, make a Stalker. Some sets simply don't need to be ported, and it's not like Stalkers get every armor set, either.
Personally, I think EVERY AT should get one powerset that is unique to it, and it alone.
It's not going to happen, because very few ATs have anything unique to them anymore, but that would be my preference.
Illusion Control, Ice Armor and Melee, Poison, and Ninjitsu are the only powersets I can think of that are completely unique to one AT. I think there should be more than that, but what's done is done. -
Quote:Of course I'm trying to get the highest score possible while bowling, but I also happen to like bowling.Oh REALLY? Are you going to look me in the eye (monitor) and tell me that you aren't trying to get the highest score you can?
When I play CoH, I do so for the "express purpose" of playing CoH. And I prefer to play characters that can earn XP, rather than characters that are already 50. It's human nature. People want to accomplish something, even if it's in a game. They want to see progress. They enjoy setting and passing milestones.
Your example fails again. In both cases, aren't people KEEPING SCORE? When you go bowling, do you just toss the ball and not keep track of how many pins you knock down?
If I didn't like bowling, I wouldn't go do it just to get a high score while not having fun. That would be a case of my score being more important than my enjoyment of it.
Which is exactly what I was talking about.
Edit: Sorry for the triple post, I'm not sure how to quote in an edit. -
Quote:This is a good point.You bring up a really good point. I think a lot of people forget at times that there are multiple ways to get what you want. All it takes is a little research and a little thought, and there's rarely an instance where you have to do a certain activity that you find not to be fun in order to get your reward.
I know when the Incarnate system first came out, I saw a lot of people in various chats complaining that they'd never get X component because they'd never be able to do Y activity. The reality is, you can always just run what you want and convert the shards you get later. It's just one example, but I think sometimes people forget that they have options.
Why do something you don't enjoy to get a reward, when you can instead do something you DO enjoy, and get the same reward.
Example: I hate farming, I despise it with a passion. There is nothing in the game I hate more than running the same mission, fighting the same mobs over and over again. People do it for influence and the chance for purple drops.
I can run tip missions or a story arc at level 50, and set the difficulty a little higher, and get the exact same rewards as I would have for farming, only I will have enjoyed the process, where I wouldn't have enjoyed farming at all. -
Interesting responses.
For the record, I wasn't trying to say my way of doing anything was better than anyone else's. I was honestly curious why someone would spend their free time doing something they did not find enjoyable (grinding for shards in this case), complain about how unenjoyable they found it, and do it anyway.
It's also interesting to note that, from what I have inferred from the responses (pure guesswork), a larger number of people than I initially suspected, when given a choice between something not fun that offered a reward and something fun that didn't, would choose the unfun rewarding activity over the fun non-rewarding activity.
I work at a job I dislike because I need the reward from it (my paycheck) in order to simply survive. I don't want to spend what little free time I have feeling like I need to earn rewards in a video game to make it worth my time. I play the game and accept whatever rewards happen to come my way, but I don't do things I find unenjoyable in order to maximize them.
I suppose that's where the disconnect is occurring for me. I don't understand why people would do something in the game they find unfun simply because it gives better rewards. Especially since you get rewards for just playing the game in the first place. -
Quote:An excellent point.
For example, no pro bowler became competitive simply by bowling with his buddies. He spent hours and hours bowling alone (and some people actually enjoy it). In CoH, those willing to farm or market can get the best rewards (some of them actually enjoy it as well).
I can see people enjoying those things. What I don't understand is the ones who DON'T enjoy them, but do them anyway. In their case, the rewards became more important than their enjoyment of the activity that produced them. And that mindset baffles me. -
Okay, so, what I'm getting out of the responses to my post is:
-I'm saying that everyone who doesn't play like me is wrong.
Not at all. I'm just wondering why people spend so much time doing something the don't enjoy in order to get a reward out of it, when that time could be spent doing something perhaps less rewarding, but more enjoyable.
When people use terms like "work" and "effort" to describe something meant for entertainment, it makes me scratch my head. I can't think of any time in my life I have ever "worked" at watching a movie, or put "effort" into a TV show.
But playing online video games is different. For an apparently overwhelming number of people it seems to be not only normal, but expected that you should put a lot of effort into the game in order to advance, or keep up with other players.
That's fine, as long as you're having fun doing it. But when it gets to the point that the rewards are more important than whether you're having fun or not, maybe it's time to do something else for a while.
I casually mentioned once that since I had never done a particular TF, that I would like to take my time with it. I was actually told: "It's not about having fun, it's about getting our merits as fast as we can." I was leading the TF, and was given no choice about the pace of it, even though I stated when I was recruiting for it that I was not interested in speed running it.
I guess what confuses me is that people actually seem to have the mentality of "Who cares if it's fun? We're getting STUFF!"
And I was misunderstood in my last post, by a couple people. When I said "In my opinion, if rewards are the sole reason you play the game, you're doing it wrong" it was interpreted wrong. If rewards are what make it fun for you, okay, I don't rally understand it, but it's your definition of fun, not mine.
But, if you DON'T find it fun, and are doing it JUST for the rewards, then you've missed the point of doing it. Unless getting the next shiny IS the point of the game, in which case I guess my approach of doing what I find fun regardless of the rewards involved makes ME weird. -
It was an example of something people do for fun, where having fun doing it is the entire point of doing it. Whether you personally enjoy bowling is not relevant for the illustrative purpose of it being used as an example. I happen to like bowling on occasion, so it was the example I chose.
Now, in my opinion, if getting the next goody is your sole reason to play the game, you're doing it for the wrong reason. An example of that would be the people who despise farming, but do it anyway for the rewards it gives, and then complain that the activity they don't enjoy isn't rewarding them fast enough. If you're not enjoying the time you spend entertaining yourself, what's the point of doing it?
A lot of people are seeing the whole Incarnate system as just another grind to get the newest shiny.
I see it as something new to do with my level capped characters, some of which I had forgotten how much I enjoyed playing. I fully expected my main to be the character I had the most fun with running that stuff. Much to my surprise, I'm having more fun with a scrapper that had been collecting dust for the past 8 months. It didn't feel like a grind just because I was enjoying playing the character again, and didn't really care how fast I collected shards.
Now, I understand that different people find different things fun, so I suppose what I'm really asking is why so many people keep saying "This isn't fun!" and then they keep doing whatever it is anyway. -
Something has been bothering me slightly for a while now.
That thing is: Why are so many people obsessed with being rewarded for the time they spend playing City of Heroes?
I see complaints about the drop rate of Incarnate Shards, purples, and any other thing that you get while you're playing, and I can't for the life of me figure out why it is so important that people get these things.
Try something real quick: Think back to when you first started playing the game, and why. I can guarantee that, whatever your reason for playing the game was, it did not involve purple drops or Incarnate Shards. In fact, I would go so far as to say you started playing the game because it was fun.
Now, when I read the forums, it seems that for a lot of people, the amount of fun they have is directly connected to the amount of rewards they get while playing.
Look at anything else you do for enjoyment. Lets say you enjoy bowling, for example. When you go out bowling with your friends, you're going out for the express purpose of going bowling. Having fun while bowling is it's own reward. You don't get upset that you didn't get a trophy for it, you had fun bowling and that was the point of doing it.
Why are video games, and MMOs in particular, so different? You would think that it would be the same. If you go bowling to have fun, why wouldn't you play video games for the same reason?
But I see a lot of people saying that they are playing to get the rewards associated with it, and complaining when they feel that they aren't getting them fast enough. That would be the same thing as going bowling and getting upset that you didn't get a trophy at the end of the night.
What happened to the fun? Why do people feel the need to be rewarded for entertaining themselves? You don't expect a reward from watching TV or a movie. You don't expect a reward for playing catch with your son (or dad, as the case may be). You don't epect a reward for going bowling, or hanging out with your friends. In all of those activities you do to entertain yourself, the fun you have while doing it IS the reward.
Why is a video game so different? -
Pretty much this.
Name one scrapper that can: Heal his teammates, and buff their defense, to-hit, regen, recovery, recharge, damage, and keep them free of mez, all at the same time. (Empathy)
Name one brute that can: Debuff an enemy's to-hit, defense, damage, damage resistance, regen, and recharge, all at the same time. (Radiation Emission)
Melee ATs get protection from mez because they really do only ONE thing: Hit stuff. Support ATs can do many things, often on the same character at the same time. The price they pay for that versatility is vulnerability to mez.
As illustrated by the OP's response in the thread, where he said that an adjustment in his tactics made all the difference, mez is NOT unmanageable by a support AT if you know your enemy and are paying attention. -
Quote:They aren't meant to be combat pets, in fact it says so right in their description (Non-Combat Pet)What good are these (Demon Pet, Clockwork Pet, Red Cap Pet, Rikti Monkey Pet, Robot Pet) if you can't use them in battle?
The devs don't seem to like giving veteran players an unfair advantage over non-vets, so all the vet rewards have downsides. The vet attacks for example: Yes, they hit fairly hard, but they also cost a lot of endurance, and can't be slotted for accuracy or end reduction. So if a vet is using those attacks a lot, they are going to run out of end sooner than someone who is not.
The Buff Pets? Yeah, I've seen tissue paper more durable than those things. They give you a tiny buff, and they die if anything looks at them sideways.
The ability to take travel powers at level 6 is nice, but most of the prerequisites are useful in their own right. Combat Jumping, Hover, Hasten, and Recall Friend are all useful powers that most people I've talked to don't skip anyway. Add Ninja Run and the ease of acquiring temp travel powers into it and you have a vet reward that is a lot less useful than it sounds (I have that one, and I haven't taken advantage of it yet)
I suppose the map reveal power is useful, but it doesn't really give any kind of significant advantage.
The point of Vet Rewards is to give players a cool little thank you gift, without making it unfair to the players that don't have them. So far I think they've done a good job in that. -
Quote:So you REALLY believe that we could get a massive increase in the duration of buff powers, without seeing an accompanying massive decrease in their effectiveness?I am unconvinced by your certainty, especially given previous game/power changes where players had been making similar assertions prior to the change.
The devs seem to have decided that the balance point of those shields being as good as they are is having to recast them every 4 minutes. If the shields were more powerful, the duration would likely be shorter. If the duration was longer, the shields would be less powerful. -
Quote:Actually it is a very valid argument.Regardless of the merits or otherwise of changing how these buffs work, this is a nonsense argument. If it were valid, then there would be no reason to change anything in the game at all, and we'd be at I1 with bugfixes.
Further, mechanics are not a simple binary 'fine' or 'not fine'. It turns out that something can start good, and be made better! Or something can be fun and annoying by turns!
Explained:
If you have a problem with something, but many other people do NOT have a problem with it, then it should not be changed just to suit YOUR desires, while ignoring the desires of the many others.
A few people saying "I don't like this" is NOT a valid reason to make a change, especially when there is a another camp saying "I like it just fine how it is". Now, if everyone said "I don't like this", it might be a different story, but I highly doubt you are going to get such a consensus.
Therefore, if you do not like buffing, you should play something else, instead of trying to get buffing sets turned into something you like, which may not be well received by those people who enjoy the sets as they are.
Simply put: The easiest solution is for the players who do not like spending time buffing to play different sets, and leave the buffing sets to the people who enjoy using them. With as many options as this game offers, I'm sure you can find some powerset that AT offers that you will enjoy.
It is not only impossible to make powersets EVERY player will enjoy, it is also foolish to try. The devs are well aware that their playerbase likes different things, they are NOT going to change their powersets around for a limited section of the playerbase, when there are other players who like it like it is already.
Those buffs are as potent as they are because of the short duration. I can all but guarantee that, if durations were increased, the potency would take a sharp drop off.

