BrandX

Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg88

Okay i am trying to make ma/shield work in pvp, but i keep getting slaughtered and i need input on how to improve or change my build. here it is:

Cobra Strike- Absolute Amazement(To Hit Debuff)
Focus Chi-Adj. Targeting full set
Crane Kick-Force F'dbk full set
Warrior's Challenge-M'cking B'ratemnt full set
Crippling Axe Kick- P'cing of the Turtle full set
Dragon's Tail- Kinetic Crsh full set
Eagle's Claw- Stupefy full set

That's the primary...and my secondary is shield. Just tell me how to slot shield proper for pvp.

Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim

Wait, what? Barrage is a 1.33 second animation, which is plenty fast for this game... whether that's slow for the real world or not isn't much of a consideration... this is a video game, and it's fast for an attack animation. Having Barrage's damage get upped made the length of the animation even better... you're doing much more damage in the same activation.

If you're going to complain about animation times, you had better just be complaining about Energy Transfer and Total Focus (and even then there can be some debate, depending on the DPA, etc.), because the first three attacks for Energy Melee are pretty fast-activating and brawlerish.



Ummm, so? Are we supposed to be suing our big hitters more than once on a big team (it would be good to remember that your example would only apply to a steamrolling team, which you won't always be on)? Other than EBs or AVs, of course. I don't see this as an issue. If your lower tier attacks were like this, sure, that could be an issue, but not for a big attack like ET or TF.

This is getting into the trouble of perception, rather than an issue with the set, per se. If your target is mostly dead, it's your fault you used a big attack like TF and had your target die before you used it (and if you're solo, it's your fault for wasting all that extra endurance instead of using a smaller attack). I was on my Peacebringer the other and had a few mobs die while Incandescent Strike was animating (same animation as Total Focus)... but that was my fault... it was way too big of a power for how much health was on the mob, and most of my team was shooting at them.

Frankly, these comments make looking at Energy Melee correctly rather difficult. People got used to things like ET being a one second "I win" button and refused to adjust tactics after the change (2-3 seconds is NOT that long, you can determine if you can generally determine if ET or TF are justified before firing them). Adjust your tactics to the way the set plays NOW, and see what needs adjusting.

Originally Posted by black_barrier

archery is really bad... you sure you dont have another 50 to toy with?

Originally Posted by Ironik

Apparently Bane and Killer Croc have different backstories now. Well, the versions of the characters I was referencing were both Science origin; I'm going to ignore other versions.

It's kind of like the shake-up of the X-Men where some new writer changed a bunch of them from Mutation to Magic origin. I find it best just to ignore that sort of thing. (Spider-man has never and will never have organic webshooters, either, so there.)

Originally Posted by Fireheart

I don't want more AoE - unless they'd buff Whirling Hands a bit - that would be good. I want my 'fast' set back!

I built my Inv/EM Tanker because I wanted a fighter with the ability to move around in a fight. I accepted the limitation that I'd never do that much damage to a Crowd of enemies, as long as the particular one in my sights was going to have a bad day. My character is a Boxer and footwork is important - if you stand still you're in trouble - Someone is gonna drop a big hurt on you.

So, yeah, he's a Tanker, not a Scrapper and a Tanker survives the fight, he doesn't necessarily end it himself. But I still wanted a Tanker with an aggressive, fast-moving feel. Besides, Tankers were the only fighters with 'fists of light' and I loved that!

So back to the issue of Animations...
. . If they nerf my Damage, I've got Enhancements and Inspirations that can fix that.
. . If they nerf my Accuracy, I've got the same tools to overcome the dificulty.
. . If they nerf my Recharge, I can take Hasten or use Enhancements - I can even hang around a Kineticist and get Speed Boost.

But there is jack-all anyone can do about animation speed. That's locked into the code. In fact, animation speed can effectively nerf Hasten - since it's on a Timer and not related to the number of attacks one does.

Animation speed is what killed Barrage at first, when it was otherwise an Excellent power. Now they've boosted the Damage of the power, but it's still slow! If a real boxer threw a combination that slowly... he'd lose. It needs to trim a half-second or more off the time to deliver the combo.

Further, I suffered through 35 levels of relative mediocrity in order to get Energy Transfer. This nerf is not to one of my 'normal' powers, it was a change to what is arguably the defining power of Energy Melee - not that I exactly wished to be defined by it. It's the big kaBoom. It is the power that little EM Tankers stand outside the toyshop drooling over - what they say, 'When I grow up, I'm gonna get That!' about.

My tanker is level 50 now and I've finally gotten Energy Transfer slotted fairly well, at obscene cost - the IO market is nuts. Now the power has been changed and there's no Enhancement I can slot to compensate, even a little.

Sure, Total Focus is another great power. Use it as your opening move against a Boss, because, if your team is on the ball, you'll never get to use it a second time. By the time it comes around again, your target is gonna be Down.

So changing the Animation time (and the Rooted time, for that matter) are two things the Devs can do, which we players have No Way to mitigate! I'm not angry because Energy Transfer is changed, changes are almost inevitable - I'm angry because it's changed in a way that I can't mitigate in game. If I was rich enough to buy every Purple set I could slot, I still wouldn't be able to change this.

I'm angry because it limits my choices. I'm angry because all I can do about it is gripe on the forums.

Here is my gripe.

Be Well!
Fireheart

Originally Posted by Werner

And Super Strength seems plenty Scrappery to me. Brutal destruction seems no less Scrappery to me than expertly-trained finesse. I've never felt that finesse was central to the Scrapper archetype. To me, the Scrapper is a melee AT. So is the Brute. So is the Tank. Whether you melee with finesse or just raw power seems a completely different subject than what archetype you're playing. I see nothing strange about brute strength scrappers or finesse Tanks. To me, archetypes are more about roles and strengths and weaknesses than they are about whether you fill those roles with finesse or brute strength, which I consider to have all the importance of a costume option.

Anyway, if you don't like the idea of brute strength Scrappers and finesse Tanks, don't play them. But is it really going to ruin your game if someone else plays them? Is the fact that they exist going to break your immersion or something?

Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master

energy melee should get better AoE dmg, the longer animation times dont really bother me at all, but i hate how i cant kill larger mobs fast enough, yes ST dmg is good, and the stackable stuns are very nice to take out boses or EBs, but the sad pathetic amount of AoE dmg is horrible, whe i first used EM, i thought TF would have been a AoE similar to thunderstrike, they both have the same animations and yes, TF does a lot more dmg than thunderstrike, but i would give up TF for thunderstrike anyday. they both have the same dmg types (energy/smash), same animations, but TF does slightly more dmg but it cant hit more than 1 target.

the EM/SR brute i have now i hardly ever play and never even took taunt on because he cannot handle the larger mobs because of a lack of AoE attacks, if it gets a buff to set, i would gladly respec him if they changed EM at all.

Originally Posted by Griff Mender

Theres a great article on longbow on Paragonwiki.com that will provide you with good info on them. Doesnt say what year or when they were created. Im assuming it was a gift from statesman to Ms liberty for her sweet 16 since she doesnt need a car. thats just my theory tho. But it says the are a division of freedom corps, so the members must have been recruited from existing Freedom corps soldiers. All a moot point really since Vanguard>Longbow and you should really be asking questions about vanguard and all their awesomeness. Lady Grey/Serpent Drummer for president 2012.
.....ok im done now. hope the wiki helps tho in all seriousness.

Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim

Heh, that's the difficulty with changing animations. I bet you anything if BAB were to change the current animation, hordes of people would suddenly come out of the woodwork to say they "love it!" It's happened far too many times.

When looking at Fiery Melee, do keep in mind that Combustion, Fire Sword Circle, and Fire Breath all have 2.67-3 second animations, so there are longer ones. I tend to lead off encounters with those to make them useful for the team, and my EM Tanker adjusts as needed with the attacks he uses. Part of the issue is people not liking the change and not rolling with it.

That said, I do think it would help to have Total Focus animate faster (though I do wonder how it would look like speeded up), to get it somewhere on par with KO Blow (faster animation, similar numbers for everything else, but five seconds longer for recharge). I think most people would say that KO Blow recharging five seconds slower is okay, and would take that over the length of TF's animation.

Part of the trick with TF's animation is that it is used for different attacks in Electric Melee, Peacebringers, and I think Seismic Smash (can't recall if there are others), so I don't know how much that has held back its being tweaked, or what. Whirling Hands seems to be the other contender for a tweak, as well.

Originally Posted by Biospark

Well, my main defender would get zero benefit from it.

I will say that its an interesting idea that fits with the "spirit" of Vigilance, but it would only benefit Rad and Dark in a "Big" way. Everyone else will get little or no benefit from it.

hmmm, unless your also saying that while mezzed, my Charged Armor, Tactics, Maneuvers, and Combat Jumping would still be protecting myself and my team. That might be interesting. Probably would cause defenders to go more toggle-heavy than they already are, which would be nice if we could get some endurance reduction somewhere in the inherent too. Hehe, oh wait....

Originally Posted by UberGuy

Anyone who's soloing AVs w/o an Illusion Controller or a Mastermind is very likely investing in IO sets to do so.

Originally Posted by Garent

Do you mean the toggles wouldn't suppress?

Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim

Okay, can someone remind me what the changes to EM were?

I believe they were dropping TF's stun from Mag 4 to Mag 3, changing/lengthening ET's animation, and upping Barrage's damage while also increasing its endurance use and recharge. Am I missing something?

If not, it seems really odd to me that increasing ET's animation by 1.67 seconds nerfed the set THAT badly. Yes, that's now 2.67 seconds, which certainly does feel longer than one second. At the same time, it does a big chunk of damage more than Greater Fire Sword, which animates only .33 seconds faster (mildly noticeable, but not that much). And I don't hear people whining about GFS much.

Was Energy Melee that much in the lead before? It doesn't seem like 1.67 seconds on one power is enough to drop it down and make it as bad as some people are saying. Or are we now looking evaluating the performance of powers in a different way than before the changes to EM (and how much do changes to other powersets account for this? I'm thinking the dropping of "redraw time" from the weapon powersets, etc.)?

I'm also curious about this. How much of the disgruntlement with Energy Melee is purely by the numbers after the nerf, and how much is it with aesthetic? I hear a lot of grumbling about the animation look of ET and how the set is slower now, so I'm trying to separate the emotion from the reality.

I don't have quite as much issue with EM that some here seem to, so I also wonder if it's partially a difference in expectation. I have plenty of experience with longer animating attacks from Fiery Aura (the AOEs and GFS are all between 2-3 seconds), Shadow Maul, Full Auto, etc. So I'm comfortable with longer animations and knowing when to fire them (I generally don't have targets drop before the attack I selected goes off).

Anyway, just some honest questions to dig down into the issue.

Originally Posted by Clouded

You're nuts.

ET on a 1 sec animation was what made EM the AV-soloer of choice for Brutes.

Originally Posted by Vitality

For Scrappers.

I need to wait until we know the powers from the Blaster primary to elaborate on this more but...

Tier-1: Rubber Bullet: Minor Damage: Immobilize: -res

Tier-2: Cryo Round: Minor DoT (Cold): Hold

Tier-3: Ranged Shot: Moderate Damage

Tier-4: Poison Tipped Bullet: Single Target: -res, -def (double the values of Melt Armor)

Tier-5: ?name?: ?PBAoE or Targeted AoE?: Moderate damage