New Martial Assault set in i24


Arbiter Hawk

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkCurrent View Post
I'd say Martial Assault bodes well. It suggests a martial control set is to follow.

I also think the co-development with blasters is a good sign. If the 2 ATs get treated like the cousins they are, then more stuff will be coming for both as work on one equals work on the other.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a water assault in the pipeline for instance.

Oh, and I've been a loud critic of the lack of dev time for dominators in the past. So for me to get excited about this means hades has frozen over.
Dominators are in the odd position of being cousins to both Blasters and Controllers. So whenever a controller gets a new primary, so will the dominator. And if this double release is anything to go by, it will be like this for blaster secondaries as well.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkCurrent View Post
I'd say Martial Assault bodes well.
Yeah, that'd be my opinion too. Not spectacularly enthused about the set itself, but just seeing the AT receive any attention is nice.

Quote:
I wouldn't be surprised to see a water assault in the pipeline for instance.
I would literally start jumping around my apartment like a maniac if they announced this. I'm going to make a water/ice blaster when i24 rolls around, but the only real reason I'm doing that is because there's no such thing as a water blast dominator. I would be all over a /water set for doms.

Best part is it'd be a pretty easy port. Leave the three regular blasts, tidal forces, steam spray, and tidal power system as they are. Turn water burst into a standard PBAoE and mutate dehydrate into a melee range siphon life analogue instead of a life drain analogue. All of that can be done purely with database changes, no animation or art time required. All that you really need to do is figure out what to replace whirlpool and geyser with.

Most assault sets have two powers that aren't regular attacks, so you'd probably be adding in one extra utility/flavor power and one more attack. I could see whirlpool's art and such being repurposed as something slightly analogous to mud pots (aura, minor DoT + slow) - sure, it'd be pretty boring and not super useful, but not every power needs to be a must have. As for geyser, I'd personally mutate it into something new - the melee equivalent of a mininuke. Basically something along the lines of 60s-ish recharge, perhaps a total focus and a half's worth of ST damage, and a hefty thunderstrike-esque region of splash damage + secondary effects around the target (though with considerably more range and damage than thunderstrike's puny effect). I'd personally prefer something more interesting for whirlpool, but the advantage of this sort of setup is it allows for the reuse of as much of whirlpool and geyser's art assets as possible.


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Posted

Experienced Dominators:

Any thoughts on pairing Mind Control with Martial Assault?


You know, just to throw this out there - I had a whole mess of crepes this morning. They're just like pancakes, maybe even better.

 

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Plant Control might pair better with MA. Seeds will cause mobs to clump together more often than Confuse or Mass Confusion will. It looks like MA will benefit greatly from clumped mobs give the "foward facing cone" and "trick shot" powers. The +Toxic power, which works with our primary, fits thematically with plant as well. Personally, I can't wait to see what this does for Carrion Creepers.

My secret wish is for HTTT to get back together so we can roll another all dom super team through the isles. Last one I was on was some years ago now but I remember it being a great deal of fun.


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Posted

I'm planning on making a FC/MA. Mostly because I've never had a Fire Control character before.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal_Naughton_Jr View Post
Experienced Dominators:

Any thoughts on pairing Mind Control with Martial Assault?
It will probably be fine. You have Psionic damage in Mind Control to fall back on if Lethal is resisted - if both are resisted then you'll have to resort to Smashing or whatever you choose from your Ancillary. The only problems I can think or right now are that Caltrops will make the two sleep powers useless and that Spinning Kick, the facing cone, will likely be annoying to use - that's more of a general thing really because the majority of Control sets don't require precise positioning. Martial Assault certainly favours being in melee though so the lack of an AoE immobilise in Mind Control probably won't be too damaging simply because of Trick Shot, the chain blast, and Explosive Shuriken which will require things to be clumped together (i.e. through the use of Mass Confusion). Envenomed Blades will probably play very nicely with Terrify too so that may make up for the lack of a useful cone attack in Martial Assault.

Of course, this can all change by the time it goes live with i24.


 

Posted

I just watched the TTV broadcast (in syndication via youtube, obviously) and there was one thing that did particularly stand out to me.

Quite some time ago, there was a thread in which the AS for Stalker's StJ was being discussed...specifically the animation for it that many people didn't seem to care for and would've liked something a bit different. I chimed in with the suggestion of a spinning roundhouse, affectionately known to many a martial arts enthusiast as a Tornado Kick. While there were a few people that actually liked the idea, there were of course the nay-sayers against. "Not suited for practical combat" and such were posted...to which yeah...I would tend to agree with them...in an ACTUAL fight. But being that this is a super hero MMO...it would work.

The devz actually took that very attack and gave it to MC and MA...so....YAY! I'm actually happy to see that.

As far as the sets themselves...I am defintely looking forward to them. Especially the blaster secondary.

Burst of Speed just looks like pure awesomesauce, packaged in a can made of awesome, with a code inside the can you can redeem for even MORE awesome!

The dommy set doesn't look too bad either. Though...like others, I will withold judgement on the melee cone power till I can see it in actual practice. (Damn! Now I'm gonna HAVE to re-install that blasted beta server...AGAIN!)


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is it me, or does this sound like a blapper set?


 

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It sounds like I can finally make some ninjas that use ninja magic to make ninjay stuff happen


 

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Originally Posted by spazmeer View Post
is it me, or does this sound like a blapper set?
Um...you pretty much just described most every dom assault set (sorry..the burst of speed reference was for the blaster secondary). Dom secondaries are a mix of melee and ranged attacks...with a light smattering of utility.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal_Naughton_Jr View Post
Experienced Dominators:

Any thoughts on pairing Mind Control with Martial Assault?
In addition to some of the conflicts Snowzone mentioned, I would be concerned about the damage procing from Envenomed Blades. Ticking toxic DoT would certainly interfere with the sleeps (as you can witness with Interface procs), but it may also provide more opportunities to strike back from Fear as opposed to a flat burst of damage.


 

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I don't think the extra damage from Envenomed Blades is a DoT - I think it just shows as a separate number for clarity.


 

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Thanks for chiming in on the Mind Control combo.

I'm still interested but yeah, there's definitely a few clashes between the two sets.


You know, just to throw this out there - I had a whole mess of crepes this morning. They're just like pancakes, maybe even better.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowzone View Post
I don't think the extra damage from Envenomed Blades is a DoT - I think it just shows as a separate number for clarity.
I think you're right as well...it doesn't seem like DOT just added damage that is baked into the power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkCurrent View Post
I'd say Martial Assault bodes well. It suggests a martial control set is to follow.

I also think the co-development with blasters is a good sign. If the 2 ATs get treated like the cousins they are, then more stuff will be coming for both as work on one equals work on the other.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a water assault in the pipeline for instance.

Oh, and I've been a loud critic of the lack of dev time for dominators in the past. So for me to get excited about this means hades has frozen over.
I agree, Hawk did well. Pairing the two secondaries makes sense and this is good news for blasters and doms.



 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granite Agent View Post
Please someone make a bride toon using the Wedding Pack, named "Marital Assault."
Or just a regular guy toon...wearing a wife beater.


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Posted

Honestly, as soon as this hits Beta I'm going to be campaigning to change out one of the powers (probably Caltrops) for the teleport power from Martial Combat (Burst of Speed).

If concessions need be made ("too much AoE") then I offer up the tier9 as a sacrificial lamb (it's AoE dot is of utterly trivial value anyhow, and to my notion only serves to conflict with sets that rely on sleeps).

It seems silly to me to spend the time making a new shiny, superawesome power, then give it to one set, and give the other set... caltrops.


@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oathbound View Post
Honestly, as soon as this hits Beta I'm going to be campaigning to change out one of the powers (probably Caltrops) for the teleport power from Martial Combat (Burst of Speed).

If concessions need be made ("too much AoE") then I offer up the tier9 as a sacrificial lamb (it's AoE dot is of utterly trivial value anyhow, and to my notion only serves to conflict with sets that rely on sleeps).

It seems silly to me to spend the time making a new shiny, superawesome power, then give it to one set, and give the other set... caltrops.
Yanno...I gotta admit i'd rather see BoS in the MA set rather than caltrops myself (I skipped Thorntrops on my plant/thorn dom too)...I seriously would never concider dropping the t9 power for it. Especially for the reasoning of sleep conflict. You're basically talking about...what...2 power sets? Electric and MC. This will be slightly less of an issue with Electric as the sleep re-applies AND drains stuff of blue. MC...well...yeah...that kinda gets hosed. But honestly...in a team setting...anything that ain't you is gonna conflict with those powers.

Plus...as I understand it...the range on the "splash" is probably gonna be pretty small. Think /Poison/.


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Originally Posted by RaikenX View Post
Yanno...I gotta admit i'd rather see BoS in the MA set rather than caltrops myself (I skipped Thorntrops on my plant/thorn dom too)...I seriously would never concider dropping the t9 power for it. Especially for the reasoning of sleep conflict. You're basically talking about...what...2 power sets? Electric and MC. This will be slightly less of an issue with Electric as the sleep re-applies AND drains stuff of blue. MC...well...yeah...that kinda gets hosed. But honestly...in a team setting...anything that ain't you is gonna conflict with those powers.

Plus...as I understand it...the range on the "splash" is probably gonna be pretty small. Think /Poison/.
I don't know. The only reason why I never made an Elec/Thorn is because of the DOT of thorns...especially trops and burst...both of them tick fast...enough to make Static Field useless...just like the pairing with Elec/Fire.

I guess I could wait until everyone is drained but that takes a lot of patience.



 

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I'll be campaigning for some sort of secondary effect, a usable cone attack, removal of the snipe (if there is no domisnipe) and Thunder Kick changed to the high damage attack, like what other Assault sets get. As well as swapping Caltrops for something infinitely more useful as a utility power.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaikenX View Post
Yanno...I gotta admit i'd rather see BoS in the MA set rather than caltrops myself (I skipped Thorntrops on my plant/thorn dom too)...I seriously would never concider dropping the t9 power for it. Especially for the reasoning of sleep conflict. You're basically talking about...what...2 power sets? Electric and MC. This will be slightly less of an issue with Electric as the sleep re-applies AND drains stuff of blue. MC...well...yeah...that kinda gets hosed. But honestly...in a team setting...anything that ain't you is gonna conflict with those powers.

Plus...as I understand it...the range on the "splash" is probably gonna be pretty small. Think /Poison/.
I apologize, I probably could have been clearer.

I didn't mean putting Burst of Speed in place of the tier9, I meant that if it was felt BoS in place of Caltrops gave the set too much reliable AoE, that they could eliminate the "splash" from the tier9 (which I'd frankly prefer anyhow since IMO unless the value on the DoT is drastically altered in Beta) it only serves to de-synergize /MA with the sleep using primaries, without proving any appreciable damage.


@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater Todd View Post
I don't know. The only reason why I never made an Elec/Thorn is because of the DOT of thorns...especially trops and burst...both of them tick fast...enough to make Static Field useless...just like the pairing with Elec/Fire.

I guess I could wait until everyone is drained but that takes a lot of patience.
Oh no doubt. That's the very reason I never did the same, myself. But we're also talking about assault sets that have DoT in nearly every power. MA only has it in like...2 powers. One of which i would personally skip (caltrops). But...that could very well just be me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Oathbound View Post
I apologize, I probably could have been clearer.

I didn't mean putting Burst of Speed in place of the tier9, I meant that if it was felt BoS in place of Caltrops gave the set too much reliable AoE, that they could eliminate the "splash" from the tier9 (which I'd frankly prefer anyhow since IMO unless the value on the DoT is drastically altered in Beta) it only serves to de-synergize /MA with the sleep using primaries, without proving any appreciable damage.
Ah...gotcha.


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Originally Posted by RaikenX View Post
Oh no doubt. That's the very reason I never did the same, myself. But we're also talking about assault sets that have DoT in nearly every power. MA only has it in like...2 powers. One of which i would personally skip (caltrops). But...that could very well just be me.
I actually love the stuffing out of caltrops because not only does it deal damage but it can be used as mitigation...but I guess if I pair it with Elec it would be best to drop Caltrops...*sigh*.

I might try it with Grav, Earth or maybe even Ice.



 

Posted

It's not like Earth or Ice Control NEED Caltrops because they already do a ton of -Speed. It's just Thorntrops with the Metal Spikes customisation - is it really needed? If you skip Caltrops and Masterful Throw then that's 18 levels of no secondary power. If I remember correctly Dark Assault originally had Moon Beam at level 28 which, alongside the aura that Engulfing Darkness replaced, resulted in 8 levels of useless secondary powers. The only difference in this is that Dark Assault had a somewhat useful utility power (Life Drain) whilst Martial Assault's (Caltrops) is either overkill or power destroying.

You can tell that Synapse made Dark Assault whilst Hawk made Martial Assault - the former was competitive with other Assault sets once Engulfing Darkness was added, whilst the latter will need a lot of work to be competitive.

Smite = Melee, High DMG (Smash/Negative), Foe -To Hit
Ice Sword = Melee, Moderate DMG(Cold/Lethal), Foe -Recharge, -SPD
Stone Mallet = Melee, High DMG(Smash), Foe Knockdown
ABone Smasher = Melee, High DMG(Energy/Smash), Foe Disorient
Skewer = Melee, High DMG(Lethal), DoT(Toxic), Foe -DEF(All)
Mind Probe = Melee, High DMG(Psionic), Foe -Recharge
Incinerate = Melee, High DoT(Fire)

If it remains the same Thunder Kick = Melee, Minor DMG(Smash), Foe Disorient.

If it's made to be High DMG then why not just use Cobra Strike (some variation so it's not just Shuriken/Kick), Crane Kick (a more exciting animation), or Martial Combat's Storm Kick (again, a more exciting animation)? As it is, I think the melee attacks picked don't have any Punching customisations.

As for the Utility power, I firmly believe that some of the powers, such as Chilling Embrace, should be given the Blaster secondary treatment to make them competitive with Drain Psyche. Caltrops doesn't do anything for survivability, in my opinion, because it's a location DoT with no useful mitigation. A melee character may love the aggro it generates but a Dominator won't. I feel the exact same way about Thorntrops but it's a bit too late to get that changed. Replacing it with Burst of Speed or even Reaction Time would be better.

If Martial Assault is not going to ever get a secondary effect then its damage better be comparable to Fiery Assault's to make up for it. Even then, Lethal damage is more resisted and I doubt Envenomed Blades will make up for this by much looking at the numbers from the Coffee Talk - around 7 or 9 Toxic damage if I remember correctly. This was on a Dev hacked character too.

As for the snipe... No To-Hit buff in Envenomed Blades seriously hinders its usage, so you'd have to rely on IOs, Tactics and Soul Drain in order to make it useful. No thank you. It's a shame that the effort put in to make it look cool is a complete and utter waste.

Facing cone? No thanks. This is another case of missing the point completely - Dominators get a ranged cone that can, you know, hit more than one enemy at a time. The fact that it's a facing cone will even make that unlikely if an enemy decides to run away just before you click the power or if you're in mid-spin from using a power in a different direction. Sure, the set does get a chain blast but that is a lot slower than the AoE damage that a cone could put out. If I was designing it then I would have made a Shuriken cone attack and put in a superior damage Melee attack instead of the snipe.


 

Posted

Well I actually like Caltrops because with the right procs it can be turned into a KD patch which adds a lot of safety especially when you stack it. The Damage procs also add up...but again I can also see the issue with it because it doesn't play Nice with Electric Control at all.



 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oathbound View Post
It seems silly to me to spend the time making a new shiny, superawesome power, then give it to one set, and give the other set... caltrops.
QFT

I normally don't post in the beta forums. But I will certainly be posting about this powerset after I try it out. At first glance, it looks pretty damn sad to say the least. The short cone range and mostly lethal and fire damage are what's most worrying to me. Definitely would have been better off going with straight up toxic damage, at least that's not resisted like crazy in the game.


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