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Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Isn't the Period for pulse & aura powers 10 seconds, to match when it actually runs the checks?
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I still don't get any of this, I'm looking at the wiki... how do I figure this out?
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Originally Posted by Caulderone
Doh! You are right!
And, my poor Lightning Field will be even WORSE off. 5.625 * 2 (act.period) / (60 + AoE Factor) Even with an AoE factor of zero (which isn't right), that's going from 33% chance to proc (Armaggedon proc) to 18.75% chance. Gah! Minimum Proc Floor please! All damage auras will see HUGE proc chance/proc damage decreases from this. |
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Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
I know this is an edge case, but something that should probably be brought up at some point.
Gaussian Chance for BU using a PPM formula in a 90s rchg power (AIM/BU) even at only 1 PPM will have an extremely high proc chance essentially allowing for double BU/AIM nearly everytime. Is this going to be WAI or is there a plan to address this? |
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Originally Posted by Synapse
The minimum proc floor will be something like 5% +1.2% per PPM. However, like I said very few powers will actually hit that.
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Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Isn't the Period for pulse & aura powers 10 seconds, to match when it actually runs the checks?
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Originally Posted by Vauluur
Is this assuming that no recharge is slotted into the power? If so, I don't see this being terribly game breaking. It would be trading consistent damage for massive burst damage. Otherwise, I assume the PPM would simply have to be less than 1.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Are you still planning on making PPM procs use activation period as cycle time for passives and toggles, and if so is the 5% floor valid for rapidly ticking powers?
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Originally Posted by gameboy1234
"Effectively" does not mean "is." The alpha slot is effected by ED, so it's not actually global. It's effectively an additional enhancement.
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Is there any chance the Stalker ATO Hide proc could be turned into a 100% like Numina's? While I wouldn't consider the loss of the 100% proc chance while its in AS a "nerf", I do think it adds a neat dynamic to Stalker game play I'd like to see stick around.
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Originally Posted by Synapse
So, some people are calling this a "nerf" but in actuality there's also a good amount of buffing going on here too.
Regards, Synapse |
What about procs slotted into pet summoning powers. For example, if I had a Soulbound Allegiance: Chance for Build Up slotted in Dark Extraction. Will that proc function based on the recharge of the Extracted Essence's attacks and thereby gain an increase in proc rate since they can't be slotted? Or will it function based on the recharge in summoning power?
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Originally Posted by Synapse
The minimum proc floor will be something like 5% +1.2% per PPM. However, like I said very few powers will actually hit that. Also...
Regarding Slash and Focus: Slash with Hecatomb: Base Recharge: 4.8 Area Factor: 1 IO Proc Chance: 33% Attuned PPMs: 4.5 (46%) New PPMs: 5.625 @0% Recharge: 57.5% @33% Recharge: 46.3% @66% Recharge: 36.6% @100% Recharge: 35% Focus with Apocalypse: Base Recharge: 6.4 Area Factor: 1 IO Proc Chance: 33% Attuned PPMs: 4.5 (56.8%) @0% Recharge: 71% @33% Recharge: 56.1% @66% Recharge: 47.1% @100% Recharge: 41% So, you're going to see an increase in performance against the current IO version of Hecatomb and Apocalypse in this particular instance. There are quite a few instances where your powers will have a greater chance to proc than they currently do with IOs. So, some people are calling this a "nerf" but in actuality there's also a good amount of buffing going on here too. Regards, Synapse |
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Originally Posted by Vauluur
What about procs slotted into pet summoning powers. For example, if I had a Soulbound Allegiance: Chance for Build Up slotted in Dark Extraction. Will that proc function based on the recharge of the Extracted Essence's attacks and thereby gain an increase in proc rate since they can't be slotted? Or will it function based on the recharge in summoning power?
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Originally Posted by Synapse
So, you're going to see an increase in performance against the current IO version of Hecatomb and Apocalypse in this particular instance. There are quite a few instances where your powers will have a greater chance to proc than they currently do with IOs. So, some people are calling this a "nerf" but in actuality there's also a good amount of buffing going on here too.
Regards, Synapse |
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Originally Posted by Synapse
The minimum proc floor will be something like 5% +1.2% per PPM. However, like I said very few powers will actually hit that. Also...
Regarding Slash and Focus: Slash with Hecatomb: Base Recharge: 4.8 Area Factor: 1 IO Proc Chance: 33% Attuned PPMs: 4.5 (46%) New PPMs: 5.625 @0% Recharge: 57.5% @33% Recharge: 46.3% @66% Recharge: 36.6% @100% Recharge: 35% Focus with Apocalypse: Base Recharge: 6.4 Area Factor: 1 IO Proc Chance: 33% Attuned PPMs: 4.5 (56.8%) @0% Recharge: 71% @33% Recharge: 56.1% @66% Recharge: 47.1% @100% Recharge: 41% So, you're going to see an increase in performance against the current IO version of Hecatomb and Apocalypse in this particular instance. There are quite a few instances where your powers will have a greater chance to proc than they currently do with IOs. So, some people are calling this a "nerf" but in actuality there's also a good amount of buffing going on here too. Regards, Synapse |
Yeah. Not to sure about this. Overall I think it's good but at the same time, it was said, when asked, that the procs were working as intended, at least regarding the Stalker ATO.
I'll adjust as always, but when it was asked repeatedly in beta, and told many times WAI, and now to have that taken away...:/
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Originally Posted by Caulderone
I new I took a damage hit using Dark Melee and not going for the uber chain (Sm-MG-Sm-SL). Guess I need to consider scrapping my concept/theme build and joining the min-max crowd.
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Originally Posted by Vauluur
Is this assuming that no recharge is slotted into the power? If so, I don't see this being terribly game breaking. It would be trading consistent damage for massive burst damage. Otherwise, I assume the PPM would simply have to be less than 1.
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Originally Posted by Synapse
Okay, here's what I've come up with. The differences are FAR less dramatic than my first proposal:
....... Thoughts? |
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
I have to say that this statement confuses the tar out of me. Why are you agonizing over a change like this in a concept/theme build? Maybe it's just me, but that brings to mind the whole "casually purpled Warshade" shtick.
I'm seriously not trying to make light of the unpleasantness that comes having something you've worked at building be changed downward in effectiveness, but I have a really hard time reconciling that feeling with concerns that you need to abandon a concept/theme character in order to go with a min/max one. |
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Originally Posted by Mystic_Fortune
I'm still on the 'wait and see' fence though, as I'm not a huge fan of in-game mechanics being changed long after they've been established simply because you folks introduced a more complex mechanic for the Paragon Market bought IOs what was making them 'pay-to-win' IOs.
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Originally Posted by Caulderone
I understand the oddness you perceive. I built the character into it's theme, and then eked every ounce of performance I could out of it. So, the theme came first, then I maxed it out.
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| It still falls well short, damage-wise, of what the powerset is capable of. And, now, it will fall further or abandon theme. |
I decided to take a look and see how this change would affect the AoEs in my favorite set (Fire blast).
For a normal proc (20% chance or 3 PPM) we have the following.
Fireball with 0% recharge enhancement = 39.5% chance to fire
Fireball with 33% recharge enhancement = 30.3% chance to fire
Fireball with 66% recharge enhancement = 24.7% chance to fire
Fireball with 100% recharge enhancement = 20.9% chance to fire
Fire Breath with 0% recharge enhancement = 62.4% chance to fire
Fire Breath with 33% recharge enhancement = 49.1% chance to fire
Fire Breath with 66% recharge enhancement = 41.1% chance to fire
Fire Breath with 100% recharge enhancement = 35.7% chance to fire
Rain of Fire with 0% recharge enhancement = 16.4% chance to fire
Rain of Fire with 33% recharge enhancement = 12.3% chance to fire
Rain of Fire with 66% recharge enhancement = 9.9% chance to fire
Rain of Fire with 100% recharge enhancement = 8.2% chance to fire
Assuming I didn't make any serious math errors, and that that % chance to fire is per target, it's not nearly as bad as I thought it would be. The changes are beneficial to both Fireball and Fire breath (very beneficial to fire breath). They're detrimental (quite so at large amounts of recharge) to rain of fire though. The low percentage chance to proc is based both on it's large area of affect (25 feet) and the fact that as a patch, the 'recharge' that the PPM is based on is the 10s of its activation time rather than the 60 seconds of the power's actual recharge. That brings up a couple points.
First is that basing the area factor only on the area of affect doesn't seem quite right. It leaves out maximum number of targets. While rain of fire covers about 2.75 times the area that fireball does, it usually isn't going to hit 2.75 times as many targets due to them both having the same target cap. I wonder if it wouldn't be possible to factor target cap into the area factor somehow to better account for the differences between powers that have different areas, but the same target caps.
The other point is that basing the PPM calculation off of activation time for patch powers that has a recharge doesn't work quite right. It works quite well for something like a damage aura, since that can be on all the time. For something like rain of fire though, that can have the proc go off more than once while it's active, but then can't be activated again for quite awhile, it doesn't really work right. I'm honestly not sure how to fix the problem, but it seems like something that ought to be addressed.
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Originally Posted by Garent
As for area powers and PPMs, you mentioned that you think they're being penalized too much, but from what I've seen of the (current live) numbers, cones are the ones with the poor proc chances while targeted area attacks are just fine. For example, blaster's wrath has an 89% chance of going off in fireball and a 58% chance of going off in breath of fire, despite both of them having the same recharge and breath of fire having a much smaller area and target cap. Honestly, I think procs in area powers in general could use a nerf.
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| Also, I think that proc chances in toggle powers should ignore the recharge time of the power. Again using blaster's wrath as an example, it doesn't make much sense for the 8 radius blazing aura to have a 23% chance to go off because of its 2 second recharge time while the 20 radius hot feet has a guaranteed proc chance because of its 20 second recharge time. |