City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Defense glitch between Tanker and Brute builds?

Atomic_Avenger

By Atomic_Avenger,
Posted on: 2012-03-17 14:55 in Brutes

 

Posted

I have a WP/SS Tanker and got curious to see what the stats would be if I built essentially the same character as a Brute.

The odd part is that when I compare the two in Mids I am running up against a roughly 4% bump in the Brute's S/L defenses that I cannot account for.

Do brutes have some inherent bonus to S/L that I am unaware of? Am I being blind and not seeing some extra set bonus? Or is Mids just being wonky?

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.953
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Science Brute
Primary Power Set: Super Strength
Secondary Power Set: Willpower
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Punch -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13)
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- RctvArm-EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(3), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(15), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(34), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(46)
Level 2: Mind Over Body -- RctvArm-EndRdx/Rchg(A), RctvArm-ResDam(5), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(15), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(42)
Level 4: Haymaker -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9)
Level 6: Fast Healing -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Heal(7), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx(37), Mrcl-Heal/Rchg(37), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 8: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(A), KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(31), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(31), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 10: Knockout Blow -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(11), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(11), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13)
Level 12: Fly -- Winter-ResSlow(A)
Level 14: Indomitable Will -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(40)
Level 16: Rise to the Challenge -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(17), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(17), Numna-Heal/Rchg(21)
Level 18: Rage -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(19), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(19), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(40), GSFC-Build%(42), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(42)
Level 20: Quick Recovery -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(21), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(34), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(50)
Level 22: Tough -- Aegis-ResDam(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(23), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(23)
Level 24: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(25), LkGmblr-Def(25), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 26: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(27), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(27), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 28: Heightened Senses -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(29), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(29), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 30: Taunt -- Mocking-Rchg(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(43), Mocking-Taunt/Rng(43), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(45), Mocking-Taunt(45), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(46)
Level 32: Foot Stomp -- Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Erad-Dmg(33), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(33), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(37)
Level 35: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(36), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(36), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 38: Air Superiority -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(39), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(39), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 41: Superior Conditioning -- EndMod-I(A)
Level 44: Physical Perfection -- EndMod-I(A)
Level 47: Laser Beam Eyes -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(48), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48)
Level 49: Hurl -- Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A)
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Task Force Commander
------------
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(40), Numna-Heal/Rchg(46)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- Efficacy-EndMod(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(43), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Fury
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run



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Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.953
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Iconic: Level 50 Science Tanker
Primary Power Set: Willpower
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- RctvArm-EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(3), RctvArm-ResDam(3), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(9), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(33)
Level 1: Jab -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7)
Level 2: Fast Healing -- Mrcl-Heal(A), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx(7), Mrcl-EndRdx/Rchg(36), Mrcl-Heal/Rchg(42), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 4: Mind Over Body -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(9), RctvArm-EndRdx/Rchg(11), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 6: Indomitable Will -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(37)
Level 8: Rise to the Challenge -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(34), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(34), Taunt-I(37), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 10: Taunt -- Mocking-Rchg(A), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(11), Mocking-Taunt/Rng(13), Mocking-Taunt(13), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(15), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(40)
Level 12: Haymaker -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(15), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(17), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17)
Level 14: Quick Recovery -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(29), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(31), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(39)
Level 16: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(29), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(37), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 18: Tough -- Aegis-ResDam(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(19), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(19)
Level 20: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(21), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(21), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(46)
Level 22: Heightened Senses -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(23), LkGmblr-Def(23), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(45)
Level 24: Knockout Blow -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(25), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(25), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Lock-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(42), Lock-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(46)
Level 26: Air Superiority -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(27), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(27), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 28: Fly -- Winter-ResSlow(A)
Level 30: Rage -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(31), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(31), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(39), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(46)
Level 32: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(39), LkGmblr-Def(40), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(50)
Level 35: Hurl -- Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(48), Erad-Dmg(48), Erad-Acc/Rchg(48), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(50), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 44: Laser Beam Eyes -- Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(A), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(45)
Level 47: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 49: Physical Perfection -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(36), Numna-Heal/Rchg(42)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- Efficacy-EndMod(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(33), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(36)



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Posted

On the tank you have Rage 5-slotted with Gaussians.

On the Brute, you have Rage 6-slotted, providing a 1.25% defense bonus to all Typed defense and 2.5% defense bonus to all Positional defense.

That and Maneuvers is slotted out differently.

Moreover, even with identical slotting, the defense quantities in a Brute's powers is inherently lower than an otherwise identical tank.


Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

 

Posted

Tanker build has the extra 4%(more like 3% due to the reasons mentioned above), not the brute one.

As an aside, brutes do have tools to surpass a tanker's S/L defense through the use of ATO's. 3 superior ATO's in different powers net you 10% S/L defense, while the Tanker ATO's do not grant any defense bonuses.

Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster

 

Posted

Quote:
On the tank you have Rage 5-slotted with Gaussians.

On the Brute, you have Rage 6-slotted, providing a 1.25% defense bonus to all Typed defense and 2.5% defense bonus to all Positional defense.

That and Maneuvers is slotted out differently.
Quote:
Tanker build has the extra 4%(more like 3% due to the reasons mentioned above), not the brute one.

You guys aren't getting what I am talking about.

The S/L on the brute has roughly 4% more defense than I can account for.

On my Mids it is showing as 44.3% with Maneuvers running which is running 4% over the other primary defenses. The same slotting on the Tanker creates a fairly balanced set of defenses across the board except for Psi (no more than a 1% variance between them) so why is the S/L on the brute build so much higher?

Note: Maneuvers and the Gaussians bonus boost ~all~ defenses equally so the differences in slotting from those two powers are not accounting for the discrepancy to the Brute's S/L that I am asking about.

 

Posted

Willpower gets different amounts of defense to different types. It gets the most against E/NE/F/C, a little less against Psi, and the least against S/L. Since Tankers get more defense from powers, this means your Tanker's exotic defenses have a larger "head start" on his/her S/L defense than a Brute will have.

Set bonuses, however, are the same across ATs. On the brute, your S/L set bonuses are larger than that head start, so S/L defense ends up higher; on the Tanker, your S/L set bonuses are about the same as that head start, so your defenses end up about equal.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopeling View Post
Willpower gets different amounts of defense to different types. It gets the most against E/NE/F/C, a little less against Psi, and the least against S/L. Since Tankers get more defense from powers, this means your Tanker's exotic defenses have a larger "head start" on his/her S/L defense than a Brute will have.

Set bonuses, however, are the same across ATs. On the brute, your S/L set bonuses are larger than that head start, so S/L defense ends up higher; on the Tanker, your S/L set bonuses are about the same as that head start, so your defenses end up about equal.
The variable in HS was what I was not taking into account.

On the Tanker there is a 15.33% spread between the S/L and the other defenses and on the brute the difference is only 11.46% which explains the spike in S/L on the brute that I was seeing.

Thank you.