What would you guys have instead of Posi Blast?
By
blueruckus,
Posted on: 2012-02-17 09:20 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
I think the reason kinetic crash even has the -KB bonus is as incentive to actually use it.
That said... here's what i would do:
<insert snazzy set name here>
acc/dmg
acc/dmg/rech
dmg/rech
dmg/end/rng
dmg/end/rech/rng
proc for dmg
bonuses:
2) 2.5% recovery
3) 7% acc
4) 2.5% ranged defense (1.25% energy/negative defense)
5) 1.58% smashing/lethal resistance
6) 7.5% global recharge
This concept keeps ranged enhancement as part of the set (and cones do appreciate that) but squeezes in some more recharge. Putting the global recharge bonus as the 6pc not only encourages use of the whole set but justifies the higher recharge bonus (and there's already quite a few 6.25% recharge bonuses out there already). Everything in the bonuses is generally useful to just about anyone with targeted ranged aoes.
Just my thoughts on the subject.
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BWAHAHAHAHA!|
Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
Oblit
<snip> reasonable enhancement values in all values that need enhancement. |
Endurance Reduction would like to have a word with you.
@Roderick
Quote:
I'm sorry to have to disagree with you, but about the last ways I would choose to describe Detonation are 'good enhancement values' or 'good for frankenslotting'. What gives thunderstrike and crushing impact their good enhancement/frankenslotting values are the fact that both sets have 3 triples, each of which enhances three of acc, dam, end, and recharge. Detonation has only two triples, neither of which has any recharge and one of which wastes a slot on range. (I understand that some people like range, but imo it's almost completely useless on TAoEs and only of use on cones in relatively limited circumstances - and if I wanted to slot for it, I'd use the cheap hamis.)|
Originally Posted by Dr Harmony
Detonation has it covered in terms of the actual enhancement values.
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Detonation Positron's (like Decimation and Touch of Death/Makos) is the expensive set with the proc and some very good set bonuses. Detonation is the cheap set with no proc but very nice frankenslotting values, like Thunderstrike and Crushing Impact. The difference is, Thunderstrike and CI have good set bonuses too, and Detonation doesn't. |
I do agree with the sentiment though, it would be nice if detonation *were* the TAoE set equivalent of thunderstrike or crushing impact - a relatively cheap set composed entirely of uncommons, with good enhancement values and OK but not ridiculous set bonuses. It'd take some rejiggering of the enhancements themselves in addition to the set bonuses, though. I'd make it something like:
acc/dam
end/range
acc/dam/end
dam/end/rech
acc/dam/rech
dam/rech/range
Your suggested set bonuses are fine, although I'd seize the opportunity to make a long-overdue change and pair up the resistance bonus as was done with typed defense bonuses (so add a corresponding negative resistance). It *should* get one additional triple to cover for spending some on range, as it seems the devs do think range is important, but definitely not *all* triples.
@MuonNeutrino
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Quote:
It's pretty clear that Oblit is custom designed to be used in a long recharge, end crashing PBAoE nuke where end reduction is almost completely unneeded. Were you unaware of that or are you just trying to be purposely obtuse?
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Originally Posted by Roderick
BWAHAHAHAHA!
Endurance Reduction would like to have a word with you. |
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
Quote:
Okay Roderick probably could have phrased that differently but is that last sentence really necessary?|
Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
It's pretty clear that Oblit is custom designed to be used in a long recharge, end crashing PBAoE nuke where end reduction is almost completely unneeded. Were you unaware of that or are you just trying to be purposely obtuse?
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I disagree that obliteration was meant to be used in crashy nukes primarily because since obliteration went live the devs have shifted dramatically away from crashy powers in general. Its lack of endurance enhancement is certainly meant to be a trade-off, but surely you would agree that the vast majority of sets of obliteration are slotted in non-nuke pbaoes? I think that if the devs were to come up with new taoe sets they would probably try to give them their own unique flavor rather than simply recreating something that exists in another category.
I don't have a major problem with the Posi Blast set.
Personally I would rather see the set bonuses on Detonation changed to be in line with sets like Thunder Strike, Crushing Impact, Red Fortune ect.
Debt protection has no place being in a lvl 50 set imo.
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What it's intended for and how it's used are two totally different things. Unless you think that all those melee types using it in their builds for softcapping are slotting it in nukes. Regardless, Obliteration does not give "reasonable enhancement values in all values that need enhancement." It is incredibly lacking in Endurance Reduction, which IS a "value that needs enhancement."
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Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
It's pretty clear that Oblit is custom designed to be used in a long recharge, end crashing PBAoE nuke where end reduction is almost completely unneeded. Were you unaware of that or are you just trying to be purposely obtuse?
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@Roderick
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I believe that Oblit was dev designed with crashing nukes in mind. It was released BEFORE non-crashy was the design model. I believe that PLAYERS use it in everything regardless of it's dev intention and then complain about endurance management. I personally use it in crashing nukes and PBAoE powers that are either light on endurance costs or have extremely long recharge. If I'm building a melee defense capped toon or an S/L defense capped toon I mix and match with multistrike until I get the balance of recharge, endurance management, and defense that I want.|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Okay Roderick probably could have phrased that differently but is that last sentence really necessary?
I disagree that obliteration was meant to be used in crashy nukes primarily because since obliteration went live the devs have shifted dramatically away from crashy powers in general. Its lack of endurance enhancement is certainly meant to be a trade-off, but surely you would agree that the vast majority of sets of obliteration are slotted in non-nuke pbaoes? I think that if the devs were to come up with new taoe sets they would probably try to give them their own unique flavor rather than simply recreating something that exists in another category. |
As far as obtuse goes, that's the politest term I can think of when outlying examples get repeatedly sighted as PROOF of a point. Using the fringe cases and ignoring the heart of the issue.
The game is changing, ALOT of change is happening since F2P started. There are lots of things that are happening now that would not even have been dreamed of in terms of power levels at the time I9 was released.
I personally see no reason why a rare set should not have both balanced enhancement attributes AND good set bonuses especially considering the time it takes most players to amass enough of a particular bonus to make it meaningful. Since the bonuses are still not as good as those given by purple sets and the bonuses are still lost if you exemplar more than 3 levels down, any claim that they better than purples, is disingenuous at best.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
Quote:
So you are in favor of maintaining the devs status quo which amounts to "enhancement balance of sets should be skewed to maintain game balance" a fallacy on the level of "villains will be unfairly harmed if the markets are merged"|
Originally Posted by Roderick
What it's intended for and how it's used are two totally different things. Unless you think that all those melee types using it in their builds for softcapping are slotting it in nukes. Regardless, Obliteration does not give "reasonable enhancement values in all values that need enhancement." It is incredibly lacking in Endurance Reduction, which IS a "value that needs enhancement."
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I see absolutely no reason for the devs to create sets that have unbalanced enhancement values. Of course I also see no reason to have 3 non-purple/non-pvp TAoE sets compared to the number of TAoE powers in the game, 5 snipe sets compared to the number of snipes in the game, and 10 non-purple/non-pvp single target "ranged" damage sets yet have RANGE as an enhancement in only one of those sets and one which exists from 10-25 at that.
I tend to file those things in the "makes no obvious sense" section of my thought processes.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
No, I believe that balance should be maintained because power creep kills games. It's already happening, no need to speed it up. And your suggestion is WAY past the current balance levels.
I agree that we need more TAoE sets. I do not agree that we need a Yellow or Orange TAoE set that's better than the PVP and Purple ones.
@Roderick
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Then we simply disagree. The only reason I see to maintain imbalance for the "sake of balance" is to annoy your long term customers that still pay to play. Let's face it the players that plan builds to use lots of enhancement sets are long term metagamers that like things to either balance out without messy remainders or are goal focused and want to squeeze every ounce of performance out of every thing.|
Originally Posted by Roderick
No, I believe that balance should be maintained because power creep kills games. It's already happening, no need to speed it up. And your suggestion is WAY past the current balance levels.
I agree that we need more TAoE sets. I do not agree that we need a Yellow or Orange TAoE set that's better than the PVP and Purple ones. |
Our current invention system is not really conducive to either goal that metagamers want to use it for. Also the more different types of sets introduced the harder it is to complete a set even using the market. We may need a different type of invention system that is more universal and takes us completely away from the concept of "sets".
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
This is easy.
Crushing impact, but for TAOE. Good enhancment value, can pick if you want more rech or end reduction and still have good acc and dmg values, can frankenslot pieces of it to make uber values if you want, and the bonuses are pretty good. Plus it isnt a rare set, its just uncommon.
And that is the real issue- the two uncommon sets we have for this type are just, well.....barf. I would add another one modeled after CI, and then come up with a sort of "opposite" to Posi blast as a rare. For instance, Posi blast has overkill on dmg, but lacks rech but offers some range too. I would make a rare set that might be a tad shy on dmg, but then hits rech pretty well, and skips the range. As bonuses, it could be the standard fare, though a little better then posi blast due to the skipping of range enhancment- whatever fits well, except for sure in slot 5 instead of a rech bonus there is a 3% dmg bonus. That way, there is more variety, a set for OMG dmg, and a set for more rech for lighter more oft used powers like ball lightning, a set with range for cones, and a way to frankenslot a bit of all the sets to get very nice values for TAOE.
Right now we dont have most of those options where they are available in other types. I kind of think it is some diluded "balance" mechanic to make some kind of attempt at curbing mass TAOE onslaught. It of course fails at this, and only succeeds at making players annoyed when they try to figure out how to get the enhancment values they want out of the invention system and still come up with at least one usefull set bonus.
if i had to pick any one thing to look at out of the entire invention system, and I mean anything, this lack of options for TAOE would be it. it is the only area of the invention mini-game/crafting stuff that I find irksome to deal with when planning and then building characters.
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Agreed. "Moderate" bonuses like the other uncommon sets and replace debt protection. No new set needed.
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Originally Posted by Star_Seer
Personally I would rather see the set bonuses on Detonation changed to be in line with sets like Thunder Strike, Crushing Impact, Red Fortune ect.
Debt protection has no place being in a lvl 50 set imo. |
Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't consider 40-50% Accuracy to be sufficient. Perhaps at level 30, but I want 60%+ Accuracy at level 40+.
That's why I hate Positron's Blast and MOST of the other IO Sets, as well.
Be Well!
Fireheart
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The thing about that is that if you slot to good enhancement values across your build with any combination of positron's blasts, lucks of the gambler, various purples, thunderstrikes, crushing impacts, et cetera... Global accuracy bonuses really pile up. Just from some combination of five lotg and posi's blast sets that's 45% global accuracy. In that light posi's 40-50% seems downright extravagant since its total is actually 85-95%, far more than anyone would devote to accuracy slotting in ye olde worlde of SOs. Yes, that is contingent upon having five of those sets four-or-five-slotted, but for posi's blast you pretty much have to five slot it to get good values and the recharge bonus while lotg can give good bonuses with three slots in a defensive power but four certainly isn't overkill most of the time.|
Originally Posted by Fireheart
Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't consider 40-50% Accuracy to be sufficient. Perhaps at level 30, but I want 60%+ Accuracy at level 40+.
That's why I hate Positron's Blast and MOST of the other IO Sets, as well. |
Anyone who posts a purpled build and worries about an attack's accuracy is presumably trying to confuse me in particular.
What really sells a set for me is the overall combination of buffs to the power, set bonuses and proc effect as well as proc fire rate. For me, like many others in this thread have pointed out, Posi's Blast is simply the best set choice out of a group that runs from weak to fair/good. Targeted AoE sets are starving for new non-purple choices, even more than the other categories.
My suggestions:
Valkyrie's Strike
Acc/Dmg
Dmg/End
Acc/Dmg/End
Dmg/Recharge
Acc/End/Recharge
Chance for Damage Resistance Debuff on enemies.
Bonus for 2: +3% to damage
Bonus for 3: +2.25% to maximum Endurance
Bonus for 4: +2.5% to smashing/lethal resistance
Bonus for 5: +3% to ranged defense
Bonus for 6: +2.25% to maximum Health
Fusionette's Fusillade
Acc/Dmg
Dmg/End
Dmg/Recharge
Acc/Dmg/End
Acc/Dmg/End/Recharge
Chance to gain +7.5% endurance
Bonus for 2: +7.5% resistance to To Hit debuffs
Bonus for 3: +2.5% to Recovery
Bonus for 4: +3% to damage
Bonus for 5: Knockback protection of 4 points
Bonus for 6: +2.5% to ALL damage resistance AND +1 to Threat Level (for Blasters, Corruptors, Peacebringers, Warshades, Soldiers of Arachnos and Widows only); +2.5% to energy resistance for all other Archetypes.
Or is there some reason that a set can't have useful bonuses in all positions and reasonable enhancement values in all values that need enhancement.
Let me also point out that a toon with SOs and T3 incarnate powers is nearly as good as an uber IO build and no incarnate powers and incarnating to T3s from scratch took me a fraction of the time that it takes to IO out from scratch and I'm a dedicated marketeer.
IO sets shouldn't have to have a sucky side when compared to incarnate powers when the time it takes to get that power is so vastly skewed.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson