Overlapping Lore, or "How to use old stuff to make new ideas"

(Little cross-posting between Virtue and this Forum!)

I've seen a few times, often done in a way that just bugs me in more ways than I can say, so I'll just address it here:


If you're going to use already existing, non-CoH lore to make a character in CoH, at least TRY to make it work within the lore of CoH. Please?

This includes, but isn't limited to:
- Dungeons and Dragons
- World of Darkness
- WH40k
- World of Warcraft
- Etc, etc, etc

I know of MANY folks who use the first two, only seen a few of the latter. But really, I know an entire VG who uses WoD setting-style characters...in a manner wholly inappropriate to CoH, that just makes me facepalm.

It's perfectly acceptable to make a WoD-clan vampire/werewolf/hunter in CoH.

Just don't try to apply the basis of the WoD/DnD/etc setting to CoH haphazardly. What does this mean?

- People are not prejudiced against you because you're not human. That sort of thing (according to CoH lore) died out AGES ago. Only people like Malta still outright hate you, and that's because Malta hates metas, not because you're a supernatural critter.

- No such thing as a Masquerade, of ANY kind. Don't EVEN try to make that one fly. In a world where plenty of heroes can see or sense the energies of others, you'd be hard-pressed to keep it a secret, and even if you could, again, folks don't care.

- You're welcome to say your character is from some other Elemental Plane or what have you (DnD is RICH with planes of existence for characters to originate from), but remember how "Gods" work in CoH. All those Deities and Demigods from your handbook? Are basically Incarnates with the Omega slot unlocked. Even Mot is no exception, he didn't start as a 'god', he just got so strong that killing him became next to impossible. But he's basically a glorified Incarnate, just like Hamidon.

- Your origin story is just fine. Just...don't claim the origin story for the setting you're drawing from is factual (unless your character believes that, then it's cool to claim in IC, whether they're right or not). But to claim that the origin of the world/reality/universe is what this other lore says, disregarding CoH? Is just silly.

- If there's a clash between your lore and CoH's lore...go with CoH if you really, REALLY can't make a compromise. Why? Because it'll help other people RP with you. If there's a gray area in the lore? Try to compromise between yours and CoH as equally as possible. I've seen far too many people attempt to use rulesets or lore laws from other settings when it's silly or just plain stupid.


Sorry, all I can up with at this moment, but these stood out as the biggest things that just bugged me incessantly.

I'm new to the game, and I do very much try to embed my characters in the CoH lore. I do find that it's not very easy to figure out what the CoH lore is. I have been reading the Paragon Wiki and Unionverse quite extensively, but your comment about gods is completely new to me for example. I have been reading about Oranbega, Mu, Ermeeth, Hequat and such, but I haven't found any references to incarnates.
Anything related to the Well of Furies and gods like Zeus and Hera, just links straight to Wikipedia, so one would assume that the Greek Pantheon is part of CoH lore.

There are lot's of other things that clearly must exist in CoH lore, given that you can have costume pieces related to them, but are nearly completely absent from things like the Paragon Wiki. For example elves and fairies. It's not explained if they exist in the world, or are a figment of human imagination in some form. There is some mention of "The Lost Sands", but I can't find what that is or what it means.

Some of my characters have originally been created for pen-and-paper role playing, either Mutants and Masterminds or D&D, and others have influences from other fictional universes. I have been posting on these forums, trying to avoid the mistakes you mention, but my point is that figuring out CoH lore, at least for a newbie, isn't very straight forward.

A lot of issues can be solved because in CoH lore there exist parallel universes and portals to connect to them. (Praetorian Earth, Rikti Earth, Delta Zeta 24-10) With this there could easily be portals to other lore universes. It could explain a character from such a universe, but it would not explain the inhabitants of Primal Earth behaving like that universe. It could allow a character from such a universe to initially assume they would though.

So in general, I think for example a character from a Lords of the Rings Middle Earth could exist, but should not assume anyone in the CoH universe knowns about Sauron, elves, orcs or Numenor.

What is your view on this matter?
Would you have other sources for me, that explain more of the lore beyond what the Paragon Wiki offers?

Agreed wholeheartedly with the OP. Sure, people make some awesome and funny cross-over-esque characters (someone on Union made a goblin mechanist in a giant punchy mech suit, for instance) but, for the love of [Pancake] this is CoH. End of.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

The 'Destined Ones' are easy enough to explain, if you don't mind-

SPOILERS!!
















The Destined Ones are on the list because 'someone' has been seen by Recluse's Fortunata's as helping him achieve global domination and the victory of Arachnos. As you go through the main villain arc at the end, you are suspected to be 'The Destined One'. As it turns out, Recluse want's to use you to get his way and then dispose of you, so you cannot challenge him. You go forward to the time where he has won, is supposedly at the height of his power, and then kick his face in. Bringing his future-helmet back to the present day makes him a clear point 'Don't even try it.'

Recluse, suitably impressed, makes you a counter offer of helping him conquer the world and you being part of the army of strongest Villains who will then rule. He also mentions how your part as a pawn in Project: Destiny is over, and he will no longer try and manipulate you.

With the VEAT story line (such as it is, it's quite a bad example of writing in some places) you are, supposedly, basically sick of being a lackey and try and get your name on the list...thus making yourself a different kind of lackey, really >_<
I personally hate that story line, and my Webmaster Commander is a fully loyal soldier in command of a regiment (actual SG) rather than some wannabe rogue who isn't

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

I hear you OP I hear you...

As a long time lore based RPer on virtue, running such characters like my forum handle here on this baby account now for a few years among others I always enijoy good casual RP with newly met heroes and villains while running a TF or just relaxxing at the D, Midnighters, or paragon Us around the city. Or our new roof top park in AP( thanks devs!)

Ill freely admit my first characters where D&D based, I was a D&D player rolling dice when a friend first showed me this game while he was in BETA. It was only a few months after launch I broke down and bought the game, relized I couldnt run it yet, and had to upgrade my system lol. ah the good old days.

Then as I played the game it wasnt long before I got to enjoying a fair bit of the plot, even if I was as some say already twisting it to suit my tin foil hat view of the world.

But I new a few things about Jack. Like the fact he worked on Planescapes Torment, one of the greatest D&D pc conversion rpg of all time. And that jack himself was a huge fan of D&D and that paticular setting in it. I dont think any who played it wont see more similarity in our portal corp/ourobros method of travel then say when comparing star gate to portal corp as so many non D&D folk do. or the wowtards calling it our demon gate knock off. like get real. Jack was also a huge greek myth buff, and Ive even read articles saying he wrote and ran alot of mythical history type D&D campaigns in his college days. So how our games constant greek god influences kept increasing as time went on never surprised me nor conflicted with most of my later concepts that started expecting more connections with the ancient greek world.

Eventually I would even take the last of my first years on my vet account, a drow named Istyn'Dor Alvyr based on one of my most beloved D&D PCs of old, a simple sword master. I did alot with him first year then shelved him near perma status for a long time after ED took the legs out from under perma elude builds.

While he collected dust id make such characters like Bentley Berkeley, Demetrios Vasilikos, and maybe the most important one in my crey is really good RP The Invisible Falcon. Who even once by mere chance met ghost falcon in game when he was running that apex TF with a group who had a player in it who won some contest. I was just passing through the war zone and saw him, couldnt help but introduce myself to my praetorian twin I will always admit that is the one thing I do wish I could of been on. somehow it would of been right to have a master of the ghost falcon task force badge on my IF but ah well, we cant all win time with the dev icons.

Eventually though Id finally settle on the right concept to recreate my old drow as. A few costume changes, and a name change and T'Keron Valmaz was born. Simple enough concept using game lore really, Infernals background mentions how his best friend and closest rival t'keron tried to bind the lord of demonkind valmaz. some cosmic mishap occurred and all 3 beings where sucked through.

Now I RP that the Infernals of primal earth and praetoria are in fact two halves of the same being. the idea that two infernal earths exist seems abit much to me always has. So instead I figure since both infernals arrived in primal and praetoria at the same time the two worlds each got one half. Meanwhile I RP that T'Keron and Valmaz where fused into something unholy and frightening. I imagine all gods,demons,immortals what have you can largely only function on such a level because they lack alot of human traits, hell traits any mortal sentient has.

So Valmaz, once a being with not even the concept of love or mercy etc is now flooded with such things, and the memories and will of the mans soul still haunts him, trying to fight for control every second. In my RP T'Keron is one of the great unsung heroes of the cox multiverse for his sacrifice has done what no other could, taught the devil himself how to love humanity even as he hates it.

Saying all that, nothing. I mean NOTHING kills my immersion faster these days then probably that WoD vampire stuff. I can get blending D&D pantheons and the Multi Verse presented in its older school settings as there are imo many similarities as i said earlier. However when it comes to things like vampires and were wilves in coxverse I do tend to assume its more a case of our council friends and time travel planting those legends in history. I have met many great Vamp RPers who use those aspects.

I have even seen one who blends the anne rice queen of the damned concept well into the above. altering it in that it was council who during the time seen in the cimorea zone discovered her the last of some ancient species, who was experimented on and turned into the first vampyri. she would escape, and on occasion create another on accident.

That I can at least easily random LRP with but the WoDs I meet have these hang ups that would in the COXverse make them seem well delusional is the best word I have for it. Its about as bad as everyone saying they are psychic/immune to mental intrusion but have no powers in thier sets to make that have any logic.

I tend to feel that if your new, then sure drawing from outside RPGs is likely as drawing from comics or movies. However if your going to RP in the world outside of some tight knit little RPSG then you need to be a part of our world not expect us to become a part of your smaller one.

So...Dem, what if they eventually release something canon that actually features the real Invisible Falcon?
Because, really, commandeering a canon NPC is just setting yourself for a really large fall, in my opinion.

I remember seeing someone mention they RP'd Count Alphonse Crey....the guy who's, y'know, been in a freaking COMA for years now. I....eh...wut?
People twisting NPCs gets on my wick. There is so much room for original characters without 'Son of Recluse 62' walking around.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.