One Dark Armor change

If it auto hit, it would lose it's damage. The damage isn't much, but some of us quite like it.

Okay, is there other solutions that you could present for problems that affect freebies?

I agree, I always thought the problem was massively severe end cost for a heal that is generally overkill in the majority of PVE.

How about we start with a presentation of an actual problem?

I'm the guy with the video of a softcapped dark tank. He also has a SO's only build that has run STFs.

Would you like to try to make an argument with math now?

No need to get defensive and bait me - I am trying to gather information and ideas.

I'll have to disagree. I have a heal that gets me close to a 50% heal, every 14-18 seconds.

Which is much like Reconstruction, only now I'm using WAY more END for a little less on the heal.

But the advantage imo, is in normal PVE play, which I've used it as such. Close to a sliver of life...DARK REGEN of the mobs! \o/ Full Health! Whooot!

And I've found times where going to full health was enough of a deciding factor over Reconstruction's less than full heal over the same amount of time.

Also, Dark Regen does damage.

Maaaybe it can use an ENDRED, I wouldn't be opposed to one mind you, I just think for any change to DA, I'd rather have the one I mentioned earlier in the thread than any other change.

Not trying to bait you. I'm asking you for an explanation of why Dark Armor needs adjusted.

Thing is, in most situations, having less targets means you usually don't need a huge heal.

Everyone is jumping on the scenario of fighting AVs and other extreme situations.

You're the one that mentioned this is for tanks. Tanking is most needed against AVs and other extreme situations.

Yeah, that's my point, and I don't know if that would be OP - no doubt lowering the end cost would require a nerf to the heal.

Correct, as it affects them, even though they are only one of four archetypes that this change could improve. Without IOs/incarnate powers, Dark tankers struggle against AVs considerably if you remove all other buffs/debuffs and just compare performance.

Do we balance a set that affects 4 archetypes in all scenarios due to the times in the game when we fight AVs?

I think you're forgetting the fact that the game existed without IO's for, what, four years? (I don't recall the official release date of I9, and Paragon Wiki is down at the moment). The concepts of the game were all designed around Single Origin enhancements. IO's are our "End Game Content" or "Loot System", they're not required but are instead a more immersive system provided by the developers to both keep the game fresh and expansive for all players and also giving them the opportunity to create harder content for players that step it up and power-game on occasion.

Trying to say, now, seven years later, than one set doesn't work cause "oh noes, someone has to use SO's again?" There's no validity in that argument. Dark Armor is one of the most powerful secondaries available, and to change something for freebies would dinadvertently cause damagingly overpowered effects to those who are paying for the invention system. In either situation, and especially in the case of SO builds, things are more than compensated with proper slotting. Yes, Dark Armor does come with an abundance of toggles, but that is in part to its unique bag of tricks. DA is the only secondary that can walk into a mob and instantly reduce 50% of its potentially incoming damage simply by standing there.

But lets run some basic mental math here about Dark Regen in specific (since this is what you're nit-picking). Dark Regen can be reduced to 15-20 End per use, for a potentially 100+% Heal. Reconstruction hits for 5-8 end per use for a rough maximum of ~50%. DR can do a base of 40+% off a single target; and in terms of using only one target, 20 end is a steep price, but you're often not using in this circumstance. Is 20 end a fair price for an 80% heal? Its definitely better. 20 end for a 100% heal? Yes, actually, that's pretty darn balanced.

The sets not broken, and the Free accounts aren't getting a bad play experience, they're just getting the Pre-I9 Experience.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again.

Could you please present some math to back up statements like this?

Because everything we've seen so far contradicts.

-buy the invention stuff for 30 days
-slot end redux into everything
-get an epic with conserve power/physical perfection
-toggle management, because you don't need that damage aura vs a single boss and you don't need that s/l resist against full psi mobs, right ?
-kiting and proper use of the powers instead of spamming
-pair it with a primary with end recovery (like dark melee... oh wait, there might even be a thematic pattern !)
-team up with some end buffing character (that's not a solo game, though sadly interdependancy between archetypes tends to be lower and lower)

Whatever... the only "problem" i can see with DA stands behind the keyboard. Each powerset has its drawbacks, DA pays the price of being end heavy, having a KB hole and no "god mode" power for being one of the best armor sets all around. Lowering the heal and end cost of Dark regen sounds like removing the damage/recharge penalty of granite and reducing its movement penalty while lowering the resistance/defense value. That quite defeats the whole point and fun of the powerset.

Some powers are supposed to be awesome but have huge penalties for using them, and that still doesn't change the fact that Dark regeneration is the best heal in the game AND the best power in the set on top of being borderline OP with a decent build (i'm not talking purples, just buy a single proc and stick it there, problem fixed). So if a free player really has an issue about being gimped compared to a fully slotted incarnate toon, i'd say Dark Armor isn't exactly the issue. DA has been like that for years with tweaks here and there so it's not exactly something new and that's why some peoples love it. So leave DA alone for the sake of diversity and for peoples who actually enjoy min/maxing and a bit of challenge in that game. There are enough powersets like that for roflstomping everything without even watching.

If anything i see the KB hole as being a FAR bigger hurdle to a free player with Dark Armor, because honestly, being knocked back constantly for a melee character plain sucks. But even that can be solved (hello acrobatics). Though i guess looking at the pool powers instead of slotting damage into everything and taking all attacks might be too much of an effort as well.

Sure, where's that video? ...the one that shows dark tankers are suddenly viable when softcapped?

So ... soloing +4/x8 Malta is what's required to satisfy viable? Please.

Again, my tank has done STFs just fine on SOs alone.

Now would you like to try again, except with math?

Five, currently.

Two tanks, both at 50. One brute at 50.

One scrapper and one stalker stalled in the 20s.

I had another stalker that I deleted at 43 because I disliked Ninja Blade.

I addressed that too, with the scenario where one should expect to run all the armors except for the CoD perhaps. The question is if the huge end cost and heal + all toggles are balanced vs survivability.

The kb was always a minor annoyance in this set vs all the complaints against the end cost. End costs were lowered for all the toggles outside of CoF many years ago to address this, and it is still the number one complaint about dark armor.

I just took some time to look at the set in general and considering everything, dark regen seems to be the problem child of the set. The heal could be argued to be better if it did, in fact, compare to reconstruction/healing flames and be used as such, simply because it requires a tohit check, unlike those other powers, still keeping it balanced due to the protection OG and CoF provide.

3 Slot for endurance cost. 1 slot for accuracy. That should lower end cost to a more manageable 17.34. Still no pocket change but still extremely powerful.

As it stands, Dark Regen can be insanely powerful and its endurance cost technically keeps it in check. A decrese on it's endurance cost would force a heavy recharge nerf, one that may not necesarely be proportionate to the endurance reduction (it may be much more than 2x the current recharge.)

As for Oppressive Gloom, and Tanks: you dont need to run it all the time. That being said, an endurance starving dark armor tank that is restricted to SOs may want to consider using Oppressive Gloom as his taunt aura, and not run Death Shroud nor Cloak of Fear.

Since the power does damage based off your melee damage modifier. This means tankers already suffer way less damage from the power than scrappers. 71% the damage to be exact.

Not only is the damage lower for tankers, but their extremely higher HP means that tankers take a 50% less proportional damage than scrappers do. The damage it removes by stunning just one or two minions should be enough to make up for the self inflicted damage.

Yeah, so does my SR/Ice tanker. The math will always support softcapping which isn't the norm, no matter how much a person is aware that the forums present a very tiny section of players.

Two currently.