Know Your Procs
By
Cheetatron,
Posted on: 2011-08-22 19:24 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Quote:
there are four. Don't forget Panacea. I particularly like Panacea for two reasons:|
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
Healing Set Globals
There are three Enhancements in Healing IO sets that grant global bonuses: Miracle +Recovery, Regenerative Tissue +Regeneration, and Numina's Convalescence +Recovery/+Regeneration. While these sound like ordinary global bonus IOs (which are literally single-Enhancement set bonuses), they aren't. The Healing globals are actually procs with a 100% chance to fire. What's the point, you ask? It means they continue to work no matter what level you are, since procs aren't affected by the same Combat Level limitations that Set Bonuses are. Slot a level 50 Numina global in Health and it will still function when you exemplar to level 1. Be wary, for this means the buffs will only apply to you when the power they're slotted in is cast, unlike typical global bonus IOs. If it's in an ally heal, you have to actually use that power for it to apply, and it will apply to you instead of your ally. The only way to get persistent buffs out of these Enhancements is to slot them in auto or toggle powers. Health is the usual candidate for this, but other places like High Pain Tolerance and Soothing Aura will also do the trick. |
#1 it procs a heal, not a regen bonus. this allows you to still heal when under the effects of massive -regen debuffs which are all too common. Sadly it is not enough to actually keep you alive, but it does help somewhat. This also will wake up a squishy who is asleep when it goes off. #2 it procs +endurance not +recovery. This means you can still get endurance when under the effect of a nuke or tier-9 crash, or while badly debuffed by sappers. In all of those circumstances miracle and numina's are essentially useless. Again, panacea isn't enough by itself, but it is a small help.
Handy post. Thank you!
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
Quote:
very nice post|
Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
there are four. Don't forget Panacea. I particularly like Panacea for two reasons:
#1 it procs a heal, not a regen bonus. this allows you to still heal when under the effects of massive -regen debuffs which are all too common. Sadly it is not enough to actually keep you alive, but it does help somewhat. This also will wake up a squishy who is asleep when it goes off. #2 it procs +endurance not +recovery. This means you can still get endurance when under the effect of a nuke or tier-9 crash, or while badly debuffed by sappers. In all of those circumstances miracle and numina's are essentially useless. Again, panacea isn't enough by itself, but it is a small help. Handy post. Thank you! |
and another note about the panacea proc is that it procs heal and end when placed in target aoe heals such as spirit tree and triage beacon, so if your standing in them they have a chance to do a heal on you (regardless if your the summoner or not)
Great thread
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Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
While Reactive is the most popular Interface, and the one with the most noticeable effect (these two facts are probably related (and by probably I mean they are (this is because the other interfaces suck (small resistable debuff amounts do that (HOLY COW HOW DEEP CAN I NEST PARENTHESES))))), all of them follow the same rule for determining which powers can trigger them: if it can take a Damage enhancement, the Interface has a chance to go off.
So powers like Confuse and Mass Hypnosis won't set it off, because those don't take damage enhancements, while things like Dominate and Levitate will set it off, because you can slot them for damage.
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You're right that Reactive isn't the only Interface. (-: For some reason I had "damage proc" in my head and forgot about the rest of Interface.|
Originally Posted by MechaCrash
While Reactive is the most popular Interface [...] all of them follow the same rule for determining which powers can trigger them: if it can take a Damage enhancement, the Interface has a chance to go off.
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I've examined Judgement and found that it does "accept Damage Enhancements," despite not having a mechanism to slot them directly (can only be done via Musculature), and it does trigger Interface. I've edited the original post accordingly.
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all pets can also proc interface (including lore which is also buffed by alpha except for the rech portion of spiritual)
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Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
You're right that Reactive isn't the only Interface. (-: For some reason I had "damage proc" in my head and forgot about the rest of Interface.
I've examined Judgement and found that it does "accept Damage Enhancements," despite not having a mechanism to slot them directly (can only be done via Musculature), and it does trigger Interface. I've edited the original post accordingly. |
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So the AoE sleep power has a chance to proc the healing to the caster with every target it affects right? Oh...interesting!|
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
Multiple Targets Any proc that is placed in a power that affects multiple targets has a chance to fire for every target hit by the power. This includes all procs, though the following are particularly noteworthy: * Call of the Sandman: Chance for +HP. Contrary to urban legend, this has a chance to heal more than once per activation. * Chance for +Endurance procs, which can be handy in powers like Dark Regeneration or Ball Lightning. * The global Healing procs will fire multiple times, but their effects don't stack. |
Now, the +endurance proc, I thought it "gives" endurance to the affected? Dark Regeneration goes back to you so you get good +end but Ball of Lightning gives endurance to the affected ones right?
How many global Healing procs are there besides Panacea? Panacea works like Entropic proc?
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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I just checked, and you're right. Performance Shifter: Chance for +Endurance affects Target, not Self. If you put it in an auto or click power like Stamina or Conserve Power it will give it to you, but otherwise it will give it to the target.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
Dark Regeneration goes back to you so you get good +end but Ball of Lightning gives endurance to the affected ones right?
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I don't believe it will give Endurance to enemies, though. Only friendlies.
Thank you very much for posting this. I've had some trouble *completely* understanding how procs work and this has been helpful... I just have one quick question-- I'm trying to figure out the best way to word this...
What is the maximum amount that a proc can stack, and is the limit applied to the function being executed or is it based on what a certain proc can contribute on its' own? For example, if the -resistance component from the Reactive interface has stacked as much as it can against a single target, will a damage aura with a Fury of the gladiator -Res proc have a chance to debuff that target's resistance further?
Quote:
the achilles heel and fury of the gladiator procs can only apply once each per target (they stack with each other but you cant get get more than 1 application of each at once)|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Thank you very much for posting this. I've had some trouble *completely* understanding how procs work and this has been helpful... I just have one quick question-- I'm trying to figure out the best way to word this...
What is the maximum amount that a proc can stack, and is the limit applied to the function being executed or is it based on what a certain proc can contribute on its' own? For example, if the -resistance component from the Reactive interface has stacked as much as it can against a single target, will a damage aura with a Fury of the gladiator -Res proc have a chance to debuff that target's resistance further? |
the reactive would also stack with that but its max limit is 4 (4x-2.5 is only -10% resist at best)
the general question of whether a proc can stack is dependent on the proc itself, some stack, some dont stack, but they will always be able to stack with each other
another quick note about the regen tissue, numina, and miracle procs, their effects wont stack UNLESS you change zones (everytime you change zones a "new" application of the proc is added)
it basically works the same way that poeple can stack ice shields with only 1 cold dom on the team
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Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
the achilles heel and fury of the gladiator procs can only apply once each per target (they stack with each other but you cant get get more than 1 application of each at once)
the reactive would also stack with that but its max limit is 4 (4x-2.5 is only -10% resist at best) the general question of whether a proc can stack is dependent on the proc itself, some stack, some dont stack, but they will always be able to stack with each other |
Cool, thanks. What is the maximum resistance debuff per target for the procs? Is it variable or a set number?
Also, one more thing and then I'll stop asking questions
For chance of damage procs--- When the proc goes off, does it have a set amount of damage that it can deal (after the target's resistance is taken into account,) is it variable, or is it dependent on the damage value of the power that it's slotted in?
Quote:
the absolute lowest resistance a target can have is -300% (pretty sure, i know its on the wiki)|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Cool, thanks. What is the maximum resistance debuff per target for the procs? Is it variable or a set number?
Also, one more thing and then I'll stop asking questions For chance of damage procs--- When the proc goes off, does it have a set amount of damage that it can deal (after the target's resistance is taken into account,) is it variable, or is it dependent on the damage value of the power that it's slotted in? |
for dmg procs, the dmg is a set number which is affected by targets resistances, purple dmg procs have higher dmg than standard dmg procs (i think the avg dmg proc is around 80, a purp proc is around 110), if you want more specific numbers they should be listed in mids, when you add a dmg proc to a power it should state how much dmg it does when it goes off
Quote:
Sort of. The damage actually scales with level. It is a fixed amount at that level regardless of power or AT.|
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
the absolute lowest resistance a target can have is -300% (pretty sure, i know its on the wiki)
for dmg procs, the dmg is a set number which is affected by targets resistances, purple dmg procs have higher dmg than standard dmg procs (i think the avg dmg proc is around 80, a purp proc is around 110), if you want more specific numbers they should be listed in mids, when you add a dmg proc to a power it should state how much dmg it does when it goes off |
Here's the link to the table of Proc damage by level.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
Quote:
One minor note, different "ranks" of pets have different proc damage. MM's minions are -2 level so their proc damage are lower than yours. The boss pet is considered +1 level to you, so their proc damage is actually higher. I did a test a long time ago and I think the proc damage difference is like 7-9? |
Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
Sort of. The damage actually scales with level. It is a fixed amount at that level regardless of power or AT.
Here's the link to the table of Proc damage by level. |
I believe this could be the case for Patron Pets as they are "yellow" color (not white color), although I've never grown enough interest in patron pets to find out.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Seems to me this should be a guide in the Guides section after all, it's pretty good.
Quote:
That makes panacea a lot more attractive to my bot's traps now
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Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
very nice post
and another note about the panacea proc is that it procs heal and end when placed in target aoe heals such as spirit tree and triage beacon, so if your standing in them they have a chance to do a heal on you (regardless if your the summoner or not) |
Just thought I'd jot down some notes regarding procs. This isn't meant to be a guide or anything, but it might clear up something or teach you something you didn't know.
When Interface Does
The Interface Incarnate Abilities add a chance for some kind of effect to "most of your damaging attacks." What does that mean? It seems that any power that accepts Damage Enhancements will trigger Interface Abilities. This means that, while it's possible for powers that otherwise do no damage to deal damage with procs added in, those powers will never trigger Interface.
It's worth noting that the Judgement Abilities do accept Damage Enhancements, but you can't slot them directly: you can only boost their damage through Musculature Alpha. Having said that, Judgement Abilities will trigger Interface.
Healing Set Globals
There are three Enhancements in Healing IO sets that grant global bonuses: Miracle +Recovery, Regenerative Tissue +Regeneraiton, and Numina's Convalescence +Recovery/+Regeneration. While these sound like ordinary global bonus IOs (which are literally single-Enhancement set bonuses), they aren't. The Healing globals are actually procs with a 100% chance to fire.
What's the point, you ask? It means they continue to work no matter what level you are, since procs aren't affected by the same Combat Level limitations that Set Bonuses are. Slot a level 50 Numina global in Health and it will still function when you exemplar to level 1.
Be wary, for this means the buffs will only apply to you when the power they're slotted in is cast, unlike typical global bonus IOs. If it's in an ally heal, you have to actually use that power for it to apply, and it will apply to you instead of your ally. The only way to get persistent buffs out of these Enhancements is to slot them in auto or toggle powers. Health is the usual candidate for this, but other places like High Pain Tolerance and Soothing Aura will also do the trick.
Multiple Targets
Any proc that is placed in a power that affects multiple targets has a chance to fire for every target hit by the power. This includes all procs, though the following are particularly noteworthy:
* Call of the Sandman: Chance for +HP. Contrary to urban legend, this has a chance to heal more than once per activation.
* Chance for +Endurance procs, which can be handy in powers like Dark Regeneration.
* The global Healing procs will fire multiple times, but their effects don't stack.
The Sum of Procs
The likelihood of having a proc go off for a given power is not the sum of the individual procs' chances. This is like saying since the chances of a coin coming up heads is 50%, you should have a 150% chance of flipping heads after the third throw. Obviously that's not correct, but there's got to be some way to calculate the likelihood, right?
Let's say you go bananas and put 4 damage procs in Brawl:
* Touch of Death = 15%
* Mako's Bite = 20%
* Hecatomb = 33%
* Gladiator's Strike = 20%
It may be tempting to add those all up and say "Oh, that gives Brawl an 88% chance to proc," but that's not how to do it. The question we need an answer to is as follows: In the context of all the random rolls that can possibly happen with the above configuration, what percentage of them actually result in a proc?
Consider six-sided dice and that a "proc" is one of them coming up a 3. If you roll one die, you have a 1 / 6 chance of rolling a 3, right? But what if you roll two dice? Well, there are 36 possible results for 2 dice (6 * 6), and 11 of those contain at least one 3. Every combination where the first die has a 3 counts, and the same can be said for the second die. This would be 12 (since each of the two dice has 6 outcomes), except there is one combination where they're both 3, and that still only counts as one combination. So 11 it is.
11 / 36 = ~30.6% chance of proccing.
So how do we calculate this? It's the product of all the chances that the procs have to fail, subtracted from 1. In the case of the six-sided dice, there was a 5 / 6 chance to fail for each of two dice. So we start with (5 / 6) * (5 / 6) = (25 / 36). Subtracted from 1, we get (36 / 36) - (25 / 36) = (11 / 36), aka our 30.6%.
So in the example of Brawl having all 4 damage procs that it can accept, the chance of at least one proc going off is calculated like this:
1 - (1 - 0.15) * (1 - 0.20) * (1 - 0.33) * (1 - 0.20) = ~63.6% chance to proc.
The easier calculation is if you want to know the likelihood of more than one specific proc going off during the same activation. This is simply the product of the proc chances. For exmaple, the likelihood of all 4 procs going off on the same activation is calculated like this:
0.15 * 0.20 * 0.33 * 0.20 = ~2% chance of all 4 going off at once.