Don't forget the right-hand rule! Rookies.
-Largo
Founder of A.G.O.N.Y. Supergroup on Victory
Member of Thought Sanctum VG on Victory
Member of St0rm Batallion SG on Guardian
Dammit, the forums ate my response. I'm going to short cut the thing the second time.
Pengy's illustration isn't consistent with the problem description. The illustration is a good one for the standard physics problem of decomposing a force into two perpendicular axes, but in the problem as described the object is constrained to move along the y-axis, not parallel to its orientation. Pengy's diagram would be accurate if the car was constrained to move straight up and straight down.
To apply such a force through a non-perpendicular surface is a little unusual. The example I can think up off the top of my head is a piston in a shaft with a trapezoidal surface:
Code:
* * * _ * * __ * * ___ * * ____ * * _____ * * ______ * * _______ * * ________ * * _________ * * ________ * * _______ * * ______ * * _____ * * ____ * * ___ * * __ * * _ * * * * *
Fill the top with water. The water should exert even pressure over the top of the cylinder. The water will also exert a force against the sides of the cylinder, but what we're concerned about is, given the pressure exerted by the water through the cylinder, how much of that pushes against the x-axis through the piston. And the answer is, I believe, zero.
The issue of how you apply pure force through a non-perpendicular surface is sufficiently questionable so as to bring up the point that the problem as described may not be the problem as it exists.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
Sorry, but I'm in Vancouver at the moment, and with the exchange rate, it's four times. On the plus side, the baked goods are quite tasty here.
|
Originally Posted by Rajani Isa
Hickman set the precedent of using he rule of three. For example, to summon Hickman usually requires writing Hickman three times in the post.
Of course, you clould also try posting terms like "Defense Mechanics" or "Has Accuracy been Nerfed (Again)?" |
Troy Hickman - So proud to have contributed to and played in this wonderful CoH universe
Quote:
Does that mean you're name is worth more in Canada, or you're worth less in the US?
|
Originally Posted by TroyHickman
Sorry, but I'm in Vancouver at the moment, and with the exchange rate, it's four times. On the plus side, the baked goods are quite tasty here.
|
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
Pretty common actually|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
To apply such a force through a non-perpendicular surface is a little unusual.
|
Father out in Winter pullying little kid on a sledge - (hey I know its the middle of Summer here but anyway)
He applies a force of 60N along the direction of a tow rope at 30 degrees from horizontal - this by basic Pythagoras can be envisaged as a vector diagram to identify the horizontal and vertical components - in this case its a simple 1:2:sqrt5 ratio triangle so 53N ish horizontal and 26N ish vertical components.
Or for a more game related example
Captain ShovedAround is crossing the road in Talos when he gets pushed by a stream of pedestrians - calculate the angle our superzero must set off in order to end up at the bus stop directly opposite
Mind of Gaia lvl 50 Defiant's first Mind/Storm 'troller.
Deadly Doc 50 Dark/Dark Corr
and lots more on Pinnacle,Union and Defiant
Quote:
Sorry, I might not be understanding what he was asking, or your example correctly. Isn't that image representative of an object that's unable to move along the x-axis?|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Dammit, the forums ate my response. I'm going to short cut the thing the second time.
Pengy's illustration isn't consistent with the problem description. The illustration is a good one for the standard physics problem of decomposing a force into two perpendicular axes, but in the problem as described the object is constrained to move along the y-axis, not parallel to its orientation. Pengy's diagram would be accurate if the car was constrained to move straight up and straight down. To apply such a force through a non-perpendicular surface is a little unusual. The example I can think up off the top of my head is a piston in a shaft with a trapezoidal surface: Code:
* * * _ * * __ * * ___ * * ____ * * _____ * * ______ * * _______ * * ________ * * _________ * * ________ * * _______ * * ______ * * _____ * * ____ * * ___ * * __ * * _ * * * * * Fill the top with water. The water should exert even pressure over the top of the cylinder. The water will also exert a force against the sides of the cylinder, but what we're concerned about is, given the pressure exerted by the water through the cylinder, how much of that pushes against the x-axis through the piston. And the answer is, I believe, zero. The issue of how you apply pure force through a non-perpendicular surface is sufficiently questionable so as to bring up the point that the problem as described may not be the problem as it exists. |
You have an object, It is only able to move along the x-axis and a force is exerted along the Y-axis against the object. The object is unable to move along the Y-axis, so if it were flat the object wouldn't move. However in this case the object is at a 45 degree angle, so the force pushes both down and aganst the object's angle, causing it to move along the X-axis.
I believe the question is how much of the force from the Y-Axis, being exerted, is pushing in the direction of the X-axis.
Code:
************** <- _ \/\/\/\/\/\/ <- __ \/\/\/\/\/\/ <- ___ \/\/\/\/\/ <- ____ \/\/\/\/\/ <- _____ \/\/\/\/\/ <- ______ \/\/\/\/\/ <- _______ \/\/\/\/\/ <- ________ \/\/\/\/\/ <- _________ \/\/\/\/\/ ***************
Murphys Military Law
#23. Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy other people to shoot at.
#46. If you can't remember, the Claymore is pointed towards you.
#54. Killing for peace is like screwing for virginity.
Quote:
In that case, you are not applying a force through a non-perpendicular surface in the context being described. The problem as stated specified that the force you apply is along a particular axis, but is being directed through a surface that is tilted relative to that axis. You're applying a force parallel to a tow rope which is obvious and simple. Imagine standing behind a box and pushing straight ahead. Now imagine the box isn't perpendicular to the direction you're pushing, but set at an angle. Now try to push through that angled surface in the same direction as before without applying any other forces to the box. That's not trivial.
|
Originally Posted by Gaia
Pretty common actually
Father out in Winter pullying little kid on a sledge - (hey I know its the middle of Summer here but anyway) He applies a force of 60N along the direction of a tow rope at 30 degrees from horizontal - this by basic Pythagoras can be envisaged as a vector diagram to identify the horizontal and vertical components - in this case its a simple 1:2:sqrt5 ratio triangle so 53N ish horizontal and 26N ish vertical components. |
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
Actually, you're right: my diagram is 90 degrees off.|
Originally Posted by William_Valence
Sorry, I might not be understanding what he was asking, or your example correctly. Isn't that image representative of an object that's unable to move along the x-axis?
|
However, the answer is still the same because of a little bit of basic vector analysis, or static physics.
We start here:
Quote:
| The direction the force be applied would be perpindicular to the positive x axis on on graph in the positive y direction. |
Quote:
| The question I'm trying to answer is how much force is being transfered to the object in the direction of the x-axis? |
Since the object cannot move in the y direction, at best all that force will act to squish the object flat, pushing itself outward along the x-axis in both directions. The vector sum of those forces should still be zero along the x-axis though, meaning you'd see an equal push to the left and to the right.
I'm increasingly convinced the problem as stated is not the problem as it exists.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
Its exactly the same.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
In that case, you are not applying a force through a non-perpendicular surface in the context being described. The problem as stated specified that the force you apply is along a particular axis, but is being directed through a surface that is tilted relative to that axis. You're applying a force parallel to a tow rope which is obvious and simple. Imagine standing behind a box and pushing straight ahead. Now imagine the box isn't perpendicular to the direction you're pushing, but set at an angle. Now try to push through that angled surface in the same direction as before without applying any other forces to the box. That's not trivial.
|
Just rotate your axes such that the x axis is parallel to the tow rope. That way you are directing the force along the x axis and it is directed through a surface - the ground which is at an angle to that axis.
Mind of Gaia lvl 50 Defiant's first Mind/Storm 'troller.
Deadly Doc 50 Dark/Dark Corr
and lots more on Pinnacle,Union and Defiant
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Rajani Isa
Hickman set the precedent of using he rule of three. For example, to summon Hickman usually requires writing Hickman three times in the post.
Of course, you clould also try posting terms like "Defense Mechanics" or "Has Accuracy been Nerfed (Again)?" |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by TroyHickman
Sorry, but I'm in Vancouver at the moment, and with the exchange rate, it's four times. On the plus side, the baked goods are quite tasty here.
|
...or was that the Phantom? I keep confusing the two, but dang, they both can sure sneak up on you!
"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"
"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."
Quote:
That force will be anchored to a point and not distributed across an entire surface. Because of this, you will induce torque about the center of mass of the object, unless your tow rope's line just happens to pass through the object's center of mass. Which would then be yet another contrived example. Furthermore, the object being towed is not constrained in the matter described in the original problem statement.
|
Originally Posted by Gaia
Its exactly the same.
Just rotate your axes such that the x axis is parallel to the tow rope. That way you are directing the force along the x axis and it is directed through a surface - the ground which is at an angle to that axis. |
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
Everything I know: The apple falls down not up.
|
Originally Posted by Kinrad
Everything I know about physics: F=MA
 |
I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
My first thought on reading the title: Physics is what makes the ragdoll stuff happen, right?
Fail.
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
|
Nope just trying to better understand the math involved in this problem. I'm trying to predict the outcome of an slightly expensive home experiment to decide if its worth building and testing and tried to explain the forces involved as best I can. Its been several years since I've had any practice with physics or more than basic algebra.
Work in progress no more. I have decided that I'm going to put my worst spelling errors here. Triage Bacon, Had this baster idea, TL
"I'm going to beat the Jesus out of Satan!" My Wife while playing Dante's Inferno