Electric / Shields Scrapper vs Brute - Some Numbers
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Having more spare slots helps SR close the gap a bit. Having access to Dual Blades helps SR close the gap a lot. What's there to argue about?
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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
What you're saying is DB with enough +Damage and +Recharge can close the gap of AAOs boost.
And what I was originally saying is that SD gives any scrapper that uses it regardless of their primary a boost to their overall damage and DPS that is not made up for equally (imo) on the Brute SD side of the equation in terms of resilience gained - outside of OWTS with +HP slotting, which is very good but is often both difficult to slot for and on 1/3rd uptime. |
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I don't know, you brought up this singular combo in response to a broad statement about what SD does across the board for any scrapper primary that it is paired with.|
Originally Posted by Auroxis
Having more spare slots helps SR close the gap a bit. Having access to Dual Blades helps SR close the gap a lot. What's there to argue about?
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Unless you feel that you can do the exact same thing (close the gap of AAO) with SR using FM, DM or KM (I'm not saying you can't build it, honest question).
EDIT: PM sent, since we are far off topic.
Given Scrappers' base damage advantage coupled with AAO and the proven way Shield Charge favours them it is widely accepted across all forums SD is better damage-wise on a Scrapper.
Detailed analysis is always welcome so thank you for the work put in.
Discussing power combos that alter that balance is interesting though. Anyone got any thoughts on SS/SD brutes bucking or shifting that 'Scrapper for SD damage' belief?
Permanent/stacked rage works well with AAO and Footstomp is arguably one of the best AoE's in CoH. It's downside used to be end use but Alpha and Incarnate solve much of that.
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I'm not sure fully saturated DM beats it, at least not from what I've seen. What both SR and SD lack is a damage aura |
Originally Posted by Auroxis
Dual Blades is a top scrapper ST DPS performer, the best out of all the primaries with the exception of fully saturated DM. Not having access to it is a disadvantage and it doesn't matter how you paint it.
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/backtotopic
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I'm not really arguing. It's just that you said better OWTS numbers are the "only real advantage" for making a Brute. Are they significantly better than that 12% hit point difference?
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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
Those HP are 12% extra HP native to Brutes that has nothing to do with SD for the most part.
And the regen your talking about is like 3 HPS. (Off the top of my head, haven't checked). This is a silly thing to argue |
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What makes OWTS good on the Brute is that if you are able to slot it with +Heal IOs (most builds are not able to) you can get the Brute up to 2700~2800 HP.|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
I'm not really arguing. It's just that you said better OWTS numbers are the "only real advantage" for making a Brute. Are they significantly better than that 12% hit point difference?
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Which is beyond the Scrapper HP Cap.
Other than that, the base 12% extra HP the Brute AT gets across the board is largely overshadowed by the offensive improvements SD gives to a Scrapper.
This is mostly just an issue with SD.
Auroxis has made a good case for his DB/SR build, and he will definitely be putting out DPS very far beyond what an equivalent Brute build could do - but I don't think it is the same as the across the board advantage that a Scrapper gets from going SD for the most part.
There isn't a single primary that both ATs get that you wouldn't get the response "Scrapper" if someone asked "??/SD Scrapper or Brute?"
In contrast for builds asking the same about FA, you almost always hear "Brute" as the answer.
I'm not saying SR can surpass AAO's boost, but it can certainly close the gap a bit with the extra slots and recharge. Like I said, primary access is the main thing.
And what I was originally saying is that SD gives any scrapper that uses it regardless of their primary a boost to their overall damage and DPS that is not made up for equally (imo) on the Brute SD side of the equation in terms of resilience gained - outside of OWTS with +HP slotting, which is very good but is often both difficult to slot for and on 1/3rd uptime.