Quote:
As far as NCSoft and their GMs are concerned copyrights and trademarks fall under the same company policy and they enforce the policy the same way by genericing the offender.
|
Originally Posted by ComradeCommunism
Jumping in here: no. This is a common misconception. You are thinking of trademarks. Trademarks and copyrights are closely related but they are not the same thing. A trademark is essentially a word, name, symbol, color, etc. that refers to a specific item. For example, a kleenex (sanitary tissue), a thermos (vacuum container), etc. Failure to defend a trademark will lead to it becoming generic and losing its special protections under state or federal law. We call this in the industry "genericide" (generic + genocide).
Copyrights have much more substantial protections and cannot be lost in the same way that a trademark is lost. The reason is that copyright has a limited term of exclusivity, once that period has past the item becomes available to the larger public. |
Quote:
Jim Butcher|
Originally Posted by KayJMM
My favorite Copyright Violation was about someone using a character named after some kind of famous character, getting generic... then appealing and winning the appeal because... well... he actually was the owner of the copyright...
Someone remember the details? |
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=241565
Teams are the number one killer of soloists.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by SerialBeggar
|
Thanks!!!
This history is one of my favorites!!!
** Guardian�s Crazy Catgirl **
************* 22 XxX 10 *************
Yes. I can get lost on a straight-line map.
je_saist, the text you quoted has to do with account names, not character names.
To the OP, you have nothing to worry about; if a GM was going to bust everyone who had a similar name to some d-list character somewhere then that GM would be very, very busy. I expect nearly every animal-related or god-related name in game has had some kind of counterpart in pop culture if you look hard enough. A name alone is not going to get you busted unless it is the name of an A (or maybe B) - lister.
Pinnacle
Glowworm * Brrr * Lilinoe
Protector
Kid Trance * Ms. Impala * Red Helen
Virtue
Pooka Pete
Quote:
Depending on the name, you may also win the name back depending on how similar your character is (or rather, isn't) but names like "dark flash"... No hope |
Originally Posted by Phillygirl
First off, someone has to report you for it to get gen'd. Second, they usually look for name and look infringment if it's not like say a marvel toon name or something obvious. The name you mentioned seems pretty generic. Third, they give you the option to renamed generic'd toons for free they have you send them 3 choices by replying to the "you have been generic'd" email.
|
And DC did have a Dark Flash character (currently in "Where did I go?" Retcon Limbo)
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
It was very obvious that back in 2004 Marvel did the lawsuit, because of interests of money. Even they did not accept it, City of Heroes was making a lot $$$ and since they are a Super Hero themed MMO, that was the perfect excuse for the attack. It was typical that a lot of fans will be creating the memorable characters that they always have loved. The funny thing was, that Marvel was the one creating most of their characters, so that already tells us a lot of things.
I imagine this document have been added in the past, but still i will leave this link:
http://www.secretlair.com/index.php?...n_second_life/
Second Life is a perfect example of this. In others MMO'S that i have played, character naming is not a problem, so City of Heroes was the perfect target, for the theme and advance customizing character creator, and for the obvious interested Marvel had to get more money. It's not good to wish wrong to others, but I'M happy that the greedy Marvel does not have an MMO today in 2011. Since they always think that everybody is copyrighting them, maybe that is one of the reasons they don't risk to create an MMO. Thanks to those greedy actions in their patt, a lot of players don't feel safe about creating a tribute of those characters they love.
Quote:
You are right. je_Saist was referring to this section.|
Originally Posted by Glowworm_Nexus
je_saist, the text you quoted has to do with account names, not character names.
|
Quote:
|
(e) Character Name. In order to use the Service, you must create a character and choose a name for your character to identify your character to other Members (your "Character Name"). You may not select as your Character Name the name of another person, or a namewhich violates any third party's trademark right, copyright, or other proprietary right, or which may mislead other players to believe you to be an employee of NC Interactive, or which NC Interactive deems at its sole discretion to be vulgar or otherwise offensive. NC Interactive reserves the right, in its sole discretion, to (1) delete or alter any Character Name or (2) terminate any license granted herein, for any reason whatsoever, including, without limitation, any suspected or actual infringement of any trademark or trade name right, copyright, or other proprietary right. (f) Super Group Names, Super Group Member Titles, Battle Cry, and Character Description. While accessing the Service, it is possible to name your Super Group, give titles to members of your Super Group, create a Battle Cry, and write a Character Description. You may not create a Battle Cry, Character Description, give a name to a Super Group, or give a title to a Super Group member that is the name/description/title of another person, or a name/description/title which violates any third party's trademark right, copyright, or other proprietary right, or which may mislead other players to believe you to be an employee of NC Interactive or its affiliates, or which NC Interactive deems at its sole discretion to be vulgar or otherwise offensive. NC Interactive reserves the right, in its sole discretion, to (1) delete or alter any name/description/title given to a Super Group, Super Group Member, Battle Cry, or Character Description or (2) terminate any license granted herein, for any reason whatsoever, including, without limitation, any suspected or actual infringement of any trademark, trade name right, copyright, or other proprietary right. |
Feel better now?
Quote:
Oh please players can make as many tribute/homage characters as they like as long as they don't use the actual names/costumes of the characters they are honoring/tributing.
|
Originally Posted by Yunalesca
Thanks to those greedy actions in their patt, a lot of players don't feel safe about creating a tribute of those characters they love.
|
Quote:
Yeah, Whatever you say. Sorry, but your answer has no sense for me. What i mean here is about that they can't make the costume look alike. Just like Haterade has mentioned on this post, i see there's a lot of people who don't use common sense when there is a discussion about this subject. It will not be the first time this happen and it gets annoying how imprudent people always try to attack.
|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Oh please players can make as many tribute/homage characters as they like as long as they don't use the actual names/costumes of the characters they are honoring/tributing.
|
Fragment of Nothing:
Don't worry about this, believe me the names are more rare and you will not have any trouble with them. I know what it is when you get attached to a character and the name is one main part of it.
I'm glad i have found names which are generic and not involved with any third party character, in the server play. Mythological/Third dimension being names, that i found back in the day of the 2007 purge.
We continue to enjoy this great game 
The following is my opinion/guess about why the Marvel lawsuit was settled and didn't even go to court.
1) A Marvel employee purchased City of Heroes, using Marvel money, and makes a Wolverine character with the look and name.
2) Marvel sues because the City of Heroes character creator allows players to make clones of Marvel characters, and shows their Wolverine clone as evidence.
3) A smart lawyer at NCSoft realized that, under the terms of service that the Marvel employee (and thus Marvel itself) agreed to, technically Marvel had transferred rights to the Wolverine character to NCSoft.
4) NCSoft points out to Marvel that NCSoft could make a claim on Wolverine, due to Marvel accepting City's ToS. NCSoft offers to police future characters for copyright infringement, as well as giving up any claim on Wolverine, if Marvel drops the lawsuit.
5) Marvel wisely drops the lawsuit.
Again, just conjecture. But if I can think of this, I'm pretty sure at least one of NCSoft's lawyers probably did as well.
Quote:
I think copyright infringement has to be more specific than what you've done... it truly has to be a copy of an existing property... I am sure many vets here remember the old days when there were a bazillion claws/regen scrappers named wolfernine, wolvyrine, xwolverinex, etc running around.|
Originally Posted by Fragment Of Nothing
Hey, this is a bit of an odd thread, but it's addressing a problem that's plagued me for a long time.
I have a serious issue with accidentally using names that I think might be associated with other things, and then lack the cash to buy rename tokens to bail me out. Yes, I know, research the names first, but I wasn't doing that back when I came up with some of this stuff. I can completely assure you this was all done by coincidence, and I'm just hanging my head and groaning in horror after googling the names on a whim one day. My issues are as follows: Void Wanderer (I'm concerned this bears similarity to Ultima Online's Wanderer of the Void character, though the two share no resemblance or traits whatsoever) (Level 50 Empathy Defender) Revenant Pyre (Regretfully shares a similar name to Runescape's revenant pyrefiends, apparently) (Level 5 or so Demons/Dark Mastermind) If Pyre has a problem, I can delete her with no real problem should the need arise. However, Void Wanderer has been a main character of mine for a long time, and I don't want to see her genericed, or worse, get me banned for violations somehow. Am I going to actually have a problem here? |
For example... having a female character named phoenix who has fire blasts and energy manipulation and uses the valkyrie costume pieces in various shades of red and yellow is fine
but having a female psi/psi dominator named phoenix who's a red head and has a red or green costume with a yellow bird on her chest a yellow belt and yellow gloves/boots is probably an infringement.
making characters that are "inspired" by existing properties is relatively safe so long as you have differences. For example I have an invuln/ss tanker named Lady Liberation who was inspired by Wonder Woman. She has black hair and her original costume has a red top, blue bottom, red boots, gold gloves, gold belt. Where she differs is she has a white star on her chest, a red mask, gloves instead of wrist bands, no tiara. Her second costume has no inspiration at all from wonder woman though.
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
Quote:
Now We're talking |
Originally Posted by Kyriani
I think copyright infringement has to be more specific than what you've done... it truly has to be a copy of an existing property... I am sure many vets here remember the old days when there were a bazillion claws/regen scrappers named wolfernine, wolvyrine, xwolverinex, etc running around.
For example... having a female character named phoenix who has fire blasts and energy manipulation and uses the valkyrie costume pieces in various shades of red and yellow is fine but having a female psi/psi dominator named phoenix who's a red head and has a red or green costume with a yellow bird on her chest a yellow belt and yellow gloves/boots is probably an infringement. making characters that are "inspired" by existing properties is relatively safe so long as you have differences. For example I have an invuln/ss tanker named Lady Liberation who was inspired by Wonder Woman. She has black hair and her original costume has a red top, blue bottom, red boots, gold gloves, gold belt. Where she differs is she has a white star on her chest, a red mask, gloves instead of wrist bands, no tiara. Her second costume has no inspiration at all from wonder woman though. |
. This is an open minded message and i totally agree with your description. Reminds me of a good example, a character named Joker which can be both male/female jester or any type of generic clown, but one male, with green hair, purple suit, orange Dickie, green tie, white face and red clown makeup, now that is a copyright/trademark. The same goes with Abyss, since the Abyss of this game is an female mercenary soldier.Sleestack: You have a very good point of view and that could be very close to that past situation. We still don't know, but that is a very good speculation.
Quote:
Also, if you get Generic'd and you feel it was wrong, you can fight it. |
Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
If you get genericked, you'll receive an email with instructions on how to contact the GMs to choose an alternate available name for the character.
If you don't get genericked, then don't worry about it. |
For example, my main (Master-Blade) was generic'd, apparently just because my name was Blade. They apparently never even researched what the character looked like. That's further evidenced when my main villain (Robin Rogue) for generic'd as well, because of the name "Robin". Well, SHE is a vampyre demon and looks nothing like the Boy Wonder, so that was certainly a mistake too. rofl
Either way, they reinstated the names for me and apologized for the mistake. I did have to re-do the costumes though. Fortunately I had them saved in a costume file so it was just a matter of loading them back up. No big deal really. The whole ordeal was over in a matter of hours each time.
As for who reported my two main characters to begin with, I'm pretty sure I have an idea. They were both generc'd within a week of each other and I wasn't even playing either one of them during that time period, so it was definitely somebody that just got mad at me for some reason and thought they could get back at me by reporting my toons. Anyway, I updated my petitions to request for harassment action if they did it again and I've had no issues since. Some people are real DBs sometimes. rofl. Don't let it get ya down.
What I wonder about is, how does Marvel get away with trademarking (or copywriting, whichever) people like Thor and Hercules?
If I made a */mace tank named Thor and who really was an incarnation of the mythological Thor, like the Marvel character, but had red hair instead of blond (the "real" mythological Thor has red hair, not blond), a horned helmet instead of winged, would it get generic'd? I'm sure it would, but I can't figure out why...
And how does NCSoft get away with using Valkyrie? The Marvel Valkyrie isn't exactly a D-list character. Is it because the Marvel Valkyrie really IS a valkyrie, whereas Paragon Valkyrie is just a normal person who found a technologically advanced spear?
"Everybody wants to change the world, but nobody wants to change themselves." -Tolstoy
From what I recall hearing, part of why the Marvel MMO was pulled is that Microsoft was one of the backers and couldn't be promised it would a success of WoWing proportions and thus backed out.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
Quote:
The copyright only includes their specific version of the character (i.e., the blond-haired usually-beardless version of the character they've been using for about a half-century now), while the trademark extends only to "The Mighty Thor" as a title of a comic book. The same goes for Hercules. It doesn't apply to any other version of the character, and both characters have appeared in other comics by other companies:|
Originally Posted by GATE-keeper
What I wonder about is, how does Marvel get away with trademarking (or copywriting, whichever) people like Thor and Hercules?
|
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thor_%28comics%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hercules_%28comics%29
Quote:
| If I made a */mace tank named Thor and who really was an incarnation of the mythological Thor, like the Marvel character, but had red hair instead of blond (the "real" mythological Thor has red hair, not blond), a horned helmet instead of winged, would it get generic'd? I'm sure it would, but I can't figure out why... |
Quote:
| And how does NCSoft get away with using Valkyrie? The Marvel Valkyrie isn't exactly a D-list character. Is it because the Marvel Valkyrie really IS a valkyrie, whereas Paragon Valkyrie is just a normal person who found a technologically advanced spear? |
As I said before, copyright includes the whole package, not just the name. Marvel can copyright their version of Thor, but it only applies to their specific version, and it doesn't mean that nobody else can use Thor ever again.
Quote:
I seriously doubt that is how it went down. Copyright law is very protective of the rights holders and transferring ownership simply isn't that simple. It's also not permanent.|
Originally Posted by sleestack
The following is my opinion/guess about why the Marvel lawsuit was settled and didn't even go to court.
1) A Marvel employee purchased City of Heroes, using Marvel money, and makes a Wolverine character with the look and name. 2) Marvel sues because the City of Heroes character creator allows players to make clones of Marvel characters, and shows their Wolverine clone as evidence. 3) A smart lawyer at NCSoft realized that, under the terms of service that the Marvel employee (and thus Marvel itself) agreed to, technically Marvel had transferred rights to the Wolverine character to NCSoft. 4) NCSoft points out to Marvel that NCSoft could make a claim on Wolverine, due to Marvel accepting City's ToS. NCSoft offers to police future characters for copyright infringement, as well as giving up any claim on Wolverine, if Marvel drops the lawsuit. 5) Marvel wisely drops the lawsuit. Again, just conjecture. But if I can think of this, I'm pretty sure at least one of NCSoft's lawyers probably did as well. |
What I think more than likely happened is NCSoft lawyers smacked Marvel with the DMCA and its safe harbors and told them to shove it.
Marvel can sue all they want, but assuming NCSoft follows the DMCA, Marvel would lose.
I'm sure the DCMA had a large part to do with it as they have always been quick to react to this kind of thing. That, and the fact they [NCSof & at the time Cryptic] could press that since clones of Marvel's characters were made by it's employees under it's direction those where authorized duplications and thus fall under the aforementioned non-exclusive rights claim hidden in the EULA.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
Quote:
I think this is close to the truth. Marvel, by how the copyright laws are written, was obligated to sue once they learned that copycat characters could be made, and the DMCA was a big factor in why they didn't win.|
Originally Posted by MunkiLord
I seriously doubt that is how it went down. Copyright law is very protective of the rights holders and transferring ownership simply isn't that simple. It's also not permanent.
What I think more than likely happened is NCSoft lawyers smacked Marvel with the DMCA and its safe harbors and told them to shove it. Marvel can sue all they want, but assuming NCSoft follows the DMCA, Marvel would lose. |
It seems to me to be one of those situations where the only winners are the damned lawyers because neither company won. Both wasted a ton of cash going around in legal circles.
Quote:
I don't think that's entirely accurate. Sure they may have had a couple of employees check the game out to see if it was possible, but they could easily take plenty of screenshots of regular players running around with their Hulk, Ironman, Dr. Doom, Wolverine, etc clones. Heck every time a new super hero movie comes out theres a bunch of clones running around for about a month or so until the GM's get them all genericed.
|
Originally Posted by Rajani Isa
I'm sure the DCMA had a large part to do with it as they have always been quick to react to this kind of thing. That, and the fact they [NCSof & at the time Cryptic] could press that since clones of Marvel's characters were made by it's employees under it's direction those where authorized duplications and thus fall under the aforementioned non-exclusive rights claim hidden in the EULA.
|
Quote:
I'm not saying that they didn't necessarily have screen shots of others with clones, but they made some themselves.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I don't think that's entirely accurate. Sure they may have had a couple of employees check the game out to see if it was possible, but they could easily take plenty of screenshots of regular players running around with their Hulk, Ironman, Dr. Doom, Wolverine, etc clones. Heck every time a new super hero movie comes out theres a bunch of clones running around for about a month or so until the GM's get them all genericed.
|
I know also that apparently they took the message "That name is unavilable/taken on this server" to mean there already was a character with that name - but that's how the banned list reads/read at the time.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
Quote:
Also, if you read the EULA further (I did, just to make sure for myself), it implicitly states that any character you create in the game is the property of NCSoft.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Yes. That's the Law. If the owner of a copy/trademark knows of a violation and does not take legal action the trademark may be deemed void and the owner can lose all rights to it.
As crazy as it sounds that's how it works in this country. In order to defend itself NCSoft has to be able to show the court that they take action by enforcing the genericing of copyright/trademark violations when they find them or they are brought to their attention. |
If you create a copyrighted/trademarked character in the game, it can be viewed as NCSoft claiming to own that character. If NCSoft is shown to be aware of said violation and does nothing a lawsuit could be the result of it, because of the clause Forbin already mentioned that requires the copyright owner to take action in order to retain their rights to their IP.
That said, the OP probably has nothing to worry about, since it would be a bit of a stretch to say his characters are violating any particular copyright or trademark.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
This is armchair laywering at its best!
Someone remember the details?
There are also a few cases of character names getting generic'd due to matching in-game NPCs, then having the generic reversed because they had the name in game before the NPC did.
"My inner mind has become a reality-cracking overgod. He torments me! Help!"