City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Defense Softcap question - where is the 5%?

Carnifax_NA

By Carnifax_NA,
Posted on: 2011-02-16 08:00 in Scrappers

 

Posted

Well, I am playing my /SR toon and he has 51 def to all positions in case of de-buff to have some cushion. Anyway, what happened to the 5% chance to hit me? Not counting bosses and AVS of course. I am level 50 and I normally solo stuff on +2/+8 so they are level 52-53 or something like that and it seems nothing has 5% chance to hit me. I am seeing nothing, but 6.9 and 8.2, 9.3 and these are from minions and Lieutenants. I am currently on a tip mission fighting "spirits" but it happens with other stuff also. It just sucks to feel weaker the higher level you get ...


I do not include DE in this or Nemesis with Vengeance since I know they have a higher base chance to hit and get buffed etc.

"I have always been a fan of science fiction. It all started when my parents forced me to go to church when I was a child."

 

Posted

Accuracy modifiers are applied after to-hit and defense are calculated and bound to 5%/95%. There is an accuracy bonus when attacking something lower level, which is what critters are doing to you. See the defense equation in this thread to see what I mean.

Your 51% defense is excessive, even for a buffer to debuffs. The average defense debuff does 7.5%. With 95% defense debuff resistance (should be easy to get on SR) debuffs will do 0.375%. Three could land on you, and you would lose just over 1% defense. The odds of that happening are very low, though. At most, 1% is all you really need for a buffer. You could be getting more recharge or other set bonuses in your build if you gave up that excessive buffer.

 

Posted

First that is good to know about my def, I was kinda wondering how much cushion I would need. I am going to do a re-spec here soon and that will help me greatly with slotting.

I thought about the level difference and then I changed it to +0/8 and I still see the same numbers flying around.

"I have always been a fan of science fiction. It all started when my parents forced me to go to church when I was a child."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jharber View Post
First that is good to know about my def, I was kinda wondering how much cushion I would need. I am going to do a re-spec here soon and that will help me greatly with slotting.

I thought about the level difference and then I changed it to +0/8 and I still see the same numbers flying around.
Given recent moves with enemies getting more ToHit buffs in things like Tips missions (currently mainly DE ones but high level Resistance also have +ToHit toggles) you might want to keep that buffer.

The idea that the soft cap is the be-all and end-all is something the Devs seem to want to dislodge a bit.

 

Posted

Well, I am still going to have a buffer, I just did not know how much. Anyway, anything past the soft cap would not matter anyway would it against to hit buffs? Does having 50 def actually mean anything if they have acc buffs? I thought a buffer was only for def de-buffs?

I am going to spec into dark for the neg to hit stuff also so that should help. (Not against DE but against other stuff at least)

"I have always been a fan of science fiction. It all started when my parents forced me to go to church when I was a child."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jharber View Post
Well, I am still going to have a buffer, I just did not know how much. Anyway, anything past the soft cap would not matter anyway would it against to hit buffs? Does having 50 def actually mean anything if they have acc buffs? I thought a buffer was only for def de-buffs?

I am going to spec into dark for the neg to hit stuff also so that should help. (Not against DE but against other stuff at least)
1. Having more than 45% DEF does help against ToHit buffs.

2. Having more than 45% DEF does not help against Accuracy buffs.

It's probably a murky distinction (certainly counter-intuitive if you're not familiar with the game's mechanics), but it is an important distinction. Any buffer you get on your SR Scrapper is good against either ToHit buffs or DEF debuffs. Your native DEF-debuff resistance will help you a lot in the latter case, as Syntax pointed out, but there is no counter to opponents with unusually high ToHit except to stack more and more DEF.

That said, ToHit buffs are comparatively rare, the new Incarnate content notwithstanding -- rare enough that an SR Scrapper is probably okay leaning on Luck Inspirations and/or the occasional use of Elude in those situations. Examples of ToHit buffs include, but aren't limited to the following: Super Strength's Rage, Leadership's Tactics and Vengeance (which comes up a lot when you fight Nemesis), Build Up and Aim, Empathy's Fortitude.

There are also various powers that have inherent ToHit bonuses. Martial Arts attacks, for instance. Knockout Blow is another prominent example (a good number of PvE enemies have that power, and when it hits it surely hurts!). Various single-target control powers. And while we're on the subject of ST controls, there are also a handful of powers that ignore positional DEF (that's what you have -- melee, range, AoE DEF), like Mesmerize and Dominate from Mind Control, which are fairly common in the PvE game (most prominently among Rikti).

Then you have a couple of NPC factions that are just designed to give DEF-based characters fits. Rularuu have obscene ToHit natively. Devouring Earth have those little Quartz pets that give everyone in the area obscene ToHit (and DE spawned in Praetorian/Tip missions already have a high native ToHit).

I hate to ramble, but the point here is that you have to understand what you're up against in order to figure out the outliers in your combat logs. If you're at the soft cap, then you should never be surprised by any ToHit roll below about 10%, because Accuracy alone can plausibly push even floored ToHit up that high, and Accuracy bonuses are very common. If you see any ToHit roll higher than 10% when you're at the soft cap, then chances are you were facing one of the above examples or something similar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze View Post
Nice build

 

Posted

That was a very good read TYVM for that. I suppose I am expecting to much from my set. I know we all have weaknesses and that is fine, but it just seems like /SR weakness means death since we get hit for full amounts. It seems like while other sets lower against certain foes ours is completely gone.

I am a claws/sr brute btw, I just like coming to this forum since most people who post seem to really know what they are talking about. Although, I am having thoughts of making this guy a scrapper. I just wish when you did a re-spec you could put all your enhancements in a bank or something ... Only having 10 slots to keep and having to do more re-specs to get all your wanted sets out is annoying lol.

"I have always been a fan of science fiction. It all started when my parents forced me to go to church when I was a child."

 

Posted

Quote:
... I hate to ramble, but the point here is that you have to understand what you're up against in order to figure out the outliers in your combat logs. If you're at the soft cap, then you should never be surprised by any To Hit roll below about 10%, because Accuracy alone can plausibly push even floored To Hit up that high, and Accuracy bonuses are very common. If you see any To Hit roll higher than 10% when you're at the soft cap, then chances are you were facing one of the above examples or something similar.
This!

If I go and look at my logs and see 6 or 8 or even 15% to hit reported then I basically pay it no mind .. it's more than likely normal and from Accuracy buffs, either by rank (anything other than a minion or underling has rank bonuses in excess of 1.0), relative level, or accuracy inherent to the power (most sword sets, archery, most single target holds, etc.). If on the other hand if I look at my logs and see 40% or 60% or 95% then I start thinking and looking for To Hit Buffs from some source.

http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jharber View Post
That was a very good read TYVM for that. I suppose I am expecting to much from my set. I know we all have weaknesses and that is fine, but it just seems like /SR weakness means death since we get hit for full amounts. It seems like while other sets lower against certain foes ours is completely gone.

I am a claws/sr brute btw, I just like coming to this forum since most people who post seem to really know what they are talking about. Although, I am having thoughts of making this guy a scrapper. I just wish when you did a re-spec you could put all your enhancements in a bank or something ... Only having 10 slots to keep and having to do more re-specs to get all your wanted sets out is annoying lol.
Just thought I'd add this is why on an SR character after hitting the soft cap I next look for +max health (and with it +regen). A larger health bar effects you in at least 2 major ways. First obviously the more health you have the harder you have to be hit to get taken out rapidly. Second it "stretches" out the health range where your passive resists help mitigate the incoming damage.