Avatea strike target of the week? Your kidding...


Adeon Hawkwood

 

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Originally Posted by Dispari View Post
I didn't say it's just about incarnate. But it is about incarnate. It was released as part of the i19.5 Strike Pack, which only consisted of new incarnate stuff, and the WST, which is required for the new incarnate stuff. They also didn't decide to come out with the WST system to guide people toward TFs for rewards until just now -- with incarnate. Obviously there are other rewards for people who aren't incarnates as a bonus, but that's not the reason it was put in.

Really, the real reason it was put in was to keep people busy enough without getting bored. Having enough to do without grinding the same two task forces over and over to get stuff, because they can't generate gigantic amounts of incarnate content that quickly. The idea to steer people toward other task forces is a good idea, I just strongly disagree with how they actually implemented it and what they're trying to do now.

The incarnate system is akin to actually level advancement. They're pushing us toward things that don't even utilize the incarnate bonuses we're working toward getting or have already earned, and TFs that don't even drop incarnate shards or components (other than the Notice itself). To me this is on the same level as freezing your exp gain at level 25 until you log two hours in a PvP zone and kill people. But don't worry, if you don't want to PvP you can just stop playing that character until next week (that is, unless we decide to require PvP next week too).
Have fun crying in your milk.


"The side that is unhappy is not the side that the game was intended to make happy, or promised to make happy, or focused on making happy. The side that is unhappy is the side that is unhappy. That's all." - Arcanaville
"Surprised your guys' arteries haven't clogged with all that hatred yet." - Xzero45

 

Posted

I sort of see the OPs point. First the only people that will get a Notice of the Well are the 50 levels. So anyone below that doing it gains nothing at all from Posi 1 being picked as the WTS. Then let's look at the whole Merits system and the "supposed" analysis of them that resulted in the rewards being what they are today. The Katy Hannon TF isn't very long but in the first mission alone you battle the same AV 10 times before getting a mission complete AND as you go along she increases in Level making it harder to defeat her. People stealthed missions 2 and 4 and got so good at it there were completion times under 20 minutes. The result? Completing Mayor Bower's arc in Croatoa awards more merits than completing the task force.

Now can you honestly tell me based on the huge groups of people we've been seeing camped out in IP around Statesman this week that teams comprised of nothing but 50 levels won't use every trick available to speed though a Sister Psyche since the ONLY thing they want from it, and since they CAN'T earn shards the only thing they CAN get from it, is a Notice of the Well? There are speed runs going on these TFs now because players don't care about the TF or trying to help any lower level players on the team gain levels.. All they want is the reward merits at the end. How long will it take doing this before someone at NC Soft decides to lower the merit rewards on some TFs again because everyone is racing through them?

I realize restricting the WTS, I prefer the WTF, to only those that are 45-50 does limit things a lot. Hero side you have the Kahn TF, Statesman TF, Sara Moore TF, Justine Augustine TF, and Faathima the Kind TF. Villain side it's worse with only the Lord Recluse SF and the Barracude SF. Of course both can Coop on the Lady Grey and Imperious TFs but that leave us with 7 that Heroes can run and 4 that Villains can use. But at least those offer a 50 level the ooportunity to gain more shards, add more components and actually USE the incarnate powers they have acquired.... Oh and while I shudder to think of them picking it since I just can see some of my incarnate 50s doing well on ir.. Both sides could also do the Apex and Tin Mage TFs as a potential WTF. I almost forgot those!

I don't mind doing the lower levels TFs I have a bunch of characters that have Task Force Commander and aside from a couple of them I enjoy doing those as well. But picking a TF designed for player between 20-25 and making THAT the task force required to gain a NotW needed to build a very rare enhancer for my 50 level's Alpha slots just seems sort of lame. Oh trust me if it continues I'll have my 50s out there taking down Freaksshow for Sister P, Council for Citadel or whatever but i'd rather be doing something designed around my level.

To put this another way.. Let's see how many of you are saying it doesn't matter what TF they pick when some Dev gets the BRILLAINT idea to make the WTS the Doc Q TF in the Shadow Shard and you can look forward to 3-5 hours of play time to get ONE Notice of the Well. I can promise you that will be the week I skip running them and level my lower level characters. LOL


�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon

 

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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia View Post
The shard tfs would have to be out as WSTs since you know villains can't access the shard. That would be epically stupid, unless there is going to something done to that little problem (which has been asked for for ages by villains.)

And using say the Faathima the Kind as the Hero WTS and the Barracuda as the Villain WTS differs from this week where it's the STF and the LRSF in WHAT way?

It sucks that villains have few choses but the fact is aside from those three Shard TFs they have exactly the same number of choices a hero has. And this whole thread started with a discussion of why a non 50 level TF like Sister Psyche was announced as the WTS later in February. Rogues aside what "VILLAN" can do a Sister P? So I fail to see the point.

Sorry Personally I agree with you and on several occasions here I have suggested that the Shard as a whole be turned into another Coop Zone where Heroes and Villains can work together. It would give Villains 4 more SFs to run and access to 4 more zones. I enjoy the look of the Shard and think this would breath some life into it. As of now aside from a few that occasionally run one of the TFs most people use it to hunt Fake Nemesis and run back to "THE REAL GAME" The Storm Palace is amazing to see for the first time and I love the Cascades if they'd open them up to villains and ADD some actual mission content aside from the TFs people might actually go and play there more often.


�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon

 

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Originally Posted by rsclark View Post
The problem here is with the word "mix". Having the weekly task force be lower level is a great idea. Having to run a low level TF with a 50 in order to advance at 50 is a horrendous idea. The problem isn't with a low level WTF, it's with the stupid notices being tied to the WTF.
The notices are what 50s get in place of double XP. That's it. You don't have to run any TF to get a notice. You have the option to wait until i20 comes out with content specifically designed to advance your characters as incarnates. For those who don't want to wait there are the WTFs. Basically, there is no problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wicked_Wendy View Post
I sort of see the OPs point. First the only people that will get a Notice of the Well are the 50 levels. So anyone below that doing it gains nothing at all from Posi 1 being picked as the WTS.
Sure they do. They get double XP, and double merits. That may be "nothing at all" to a 50, but it is definitely something to any character between levels 1 and 49.


Quote:
Now can you honestly tell me based on the huge groups of people we've been seeing camped out in IP around Statesman this week that teams comprised of nothing but 50 levels won't use every trick available to speed though a Sister Psyche since the ONLY thing they want from it, and since they CAN'T earn shards the only thing they CAN get from it, is a Notice of the Well? There are speed runs going on these TFs now because players don't care about the TF or trying to help any lower level players on the team gain levels.. All they want is the reward merits at the end. How long will it take doing this before someone at NC Soft decides to lower the merit rewards on some TFs again because everyone is racing through them?
Doesn't seem likely to me. Double merits on one TF a week the first time you run it doesn't seem very farmable.

Quote:
I don't mind doing the lower levels TFs I have a bunch of characters that have Task Force Commander and aside from a couple of them I enjoy doing those as well. But picking a TF designed for player between 20-25 and making THAT the task force required to gain a NotW needed to build a very rare enhancer for my 50 level's Alpha slots just seems sort of lame. Oh trust me if it continues I'll have my 50s out there taking down Freaksshow for Sister P, Council for Citadel or whatever but i'd rather be doing something designed around my level.
Again, this is simply the only way to get a notice RIGHT NOW. When i20 comes out you won't need to do any of the WTFs if you don't want to. I could understand if this were the only way to get them, but it's not. All that's required is patience.


 

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Originally Posted by rlloyd View Post
Or they could just leave out the Shard TFs. That way, everyone wins.
Toucher.


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Originally Posted by SpaceNut View Post
Without an update to the lore, it makes no sense for non-level 50 tasks to be dropping Incarnate shards and/or components.

Not true. First off, they don't drop Shards afaik. Second: "There are many paths to the well," as per Mender Ramiel. That's all the lore I need to justify getting Notice of the Well by helping lower level supers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JD_Gumby View Post
Wouldn't even be difficult to justify, either. Just need to throw in some generic Vanguard NPCs, add a portal to the Vanguard base in Grandville, and alter the dialogue of the existing contacts to reflect the fact that operations in the Shadow Shard are now under Vanguard jurisdiction (since they're in charge of defending against extra-dimensional threats).
Yea, I'm surprised they didn't do this a long time ago. It would be Very easy and would leave open the possibility of adding more Villain specific stuff later.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dispari View Post
The WST is for the new incarnate system.

As has been pointed out, this assertion is not supported by the facts.


Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.

 

Posted

I welcome the lower level TFs being included in this. This looks like fun to me, and that is all I need.


 

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Originally Posted by Dispari View Post
"Wow, ITF and LGTF are way too popular. People have way too much fun running these task forces, and do so willingly quite often. Let's try to make people not play them."
LGTF is the WTF week after next.


 

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Originally Posted by Wavicle View Post
As has been pointed out, this assertion is not supported by the facts.
Yes it is. The facts are, the WST is the only way to obtain incarnate salvage required for the rare and very rare pieces. The only thing the exp/merit bonus prove is that incarnate is not the only thing the WST is for. But I never said that it was exclusively for incarnate. Just that it does exist for incarnate. Are you trying to tell me it has nothing to do with incarnate?


Quote:
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU View Post
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Wicked_Wendy View Post
First the only people that will get a Notice of the Well are the 50 levels. So anyone below that doing it gains nothing at all from Posi 1 being picked as the WTS.
Except the extra XP and merits. But if you don't count what sub 50s get, then you are right that they gain nothing.


 

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Originally Posted by Eisenzahn View Post
But anyway... why is the OP addressed to Avatea? I doubt she has much, if anything, to do with the selection of TFs.
Nope, I understand it was Black Pebble's job to pick the TF order. So as usual we can blame marketing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU View Post
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

 

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Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
I thought this thread was about Avatea being the strike target of the week?
Fixed.


 

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Originally Posted by Dispari View Post
Are you trying to tell me it has nothing to do with incarnate?

no, of course I'm not saying it has nothing to do with it

You repeatedly said Incarnate "is the reason for" the weekly, with no qualifiers.

that's clearly misleading, since the WST involves lower level TFs and it gives double XP. We have yet to see WST Hamidon, Cathedral of Pain, or Rikti Mothership Raid, and I'm not sure we will. We might or might not.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dispari View Post
The facts are, the WST is the only way to obtain incarnate salvage required for the rare and very rare pieces.
No, it's not. The other way is coming in i20.


Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.

 

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Originally Posted by brophog02 View Post
Apparently the fun factor of these events wasn't high enough when Edens and Katies were being run every 12 nanoseconds.

Miss the Katie train sometimes.


Enjoy your day please.

 

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Originally Posted by BashfulBanshee View Post
Miss the Katie train sometimes.
I do too.


 

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Originally Posted by BashfulBanshee View Post
Miss the Katie train sometimes.
Me too. I just happened to be working on a Warshade at that time, so it was perfect for running quick Katies.


 

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Originally Posted by WenDarkFall View Post
The above is posted...Doing the Sister Psyche in the 20's...Give me a break. Your Alpha slot won't work...not that it needs to just "facepalm".

We should be doing CONTENT that will generate SHARDS meaning lvl 50 opponents.

Extremely disappointed.
Personally, I'm extremely PLEASED.
There simply aren't enough level 50 task forces to restrict the WST to level 50 content.


Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project

 

Posted

It’s good to see all the different opinions on the WST. Thank you all for responding to my initial post. Even the comments on grammar or spelling errors were noted.

The WST was proposed/advertised as a way to get Notice’s of the Well. That is strictly an incarnate system reason.

To get shards you have to defeat level 50 opponents. Doing lower level TF’s is just NOT efficient use of a level 50’s time. Especially if he already has the TF.

Nobody who has commented knows why a lower level TF was picked as a “Target”.
I only address Avatea with the subject, is because she/he is the one that posted it. It matters NOT who does, only that it is inefficient and therefore poorly thought out for the above reasons.

Double experience, influence and merits seems to be incentive for people who have NOT done the incarnate system to help the level 50’s who have…not the other way around as many of you seem to think.

Do you realize that if you have not unlocked the incarnate doing the WST actually prevents you from getting a “Notice” until the next week’s target? So a level 49 doing the WST and making 50 has to wait another week..To get a “Notice”. So the double experience is actually a “Problem”, at least for him.

I would not mind doing a lower level TF – if it was boosted to 50 for the week it was the target.


LvL 50 Dark Dark, Emp/Rad Defenders
LvL 50 Inv/Axe, Fire/Fire, Stone/Stone, Mace/Shield Tanks, EM/Inv
LvL 50 Spines/DA Scrapper
LvL 50 Ice/Storm, Ice/Rad, Earth/Rad, 2 Fire/Kin, Ill/Rad, Grav/FF, Controller Elec/Storm
LvL 50 Bots/FF, Merc/Traps, MM Thugs/Traps, Demon/Thermal

 

Posted

Oh no! Not the alpha slot! Even though we've played without it for years now that it's here we've suddenly lost the ability to do anything below level 50!

Seriously, get over it. If you hate it so much then run it ONCE for the notice, then run the ITF a million times over for the shards.


Characters!:
Pinny - Scrapper
Shadewing - Defender
@Pinny

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinny View Post
Oh no! Not the alpha slot! Even though we've played without it for years now that it's here we've suddenly lost the ability to do anything below level 50!

Seriously, get over it. If you hate it so much then run it ONCE for the notice, then run the ITF a million times over for the shards.
Try and follow me here: people doing the WST for incarnate stuff are doing so as part of incarnate content. But being asked to do content that disables their incarnate and gives no additional rewards for incarnate (shards or components other than Notice).

It's kind of like hyping up new PvP content and then delivering it -- in Steel Canyon, with the PvP part removed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU View Post
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinny View Post
Oh no! Not the alpha slot! Even though we've played without it for years now that it's here we've suddenly lost the ability to do anything below level 50!
I've always hated exemplaring, because I've always hated losing my powers. The alpha slot is no different in this regard from the APPs/PPPs my high-level builds tend to rely on.

I don't think this is an uncommon dislike; I think it's probably the central driving motivation behind requests for "end game". People want more stuff to do with their awesome powers, and don't want to have to go back and do lower stuff without their powers instead.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dispari View Post
Try and follow me here: people doing the WST for incarnate stuff are doing so as part of incarnate content. But being asked to do content that disables their incarnate and gives no additional rewards for incarnate (shards or components other than Notice).
I'd still do it on my 50. Why? Weekly TF/SF gives Notice of the Well.

It's that simple. Obviously I won't do it multiple times, since there's no point. But there is still a point to doing it at least once.


Characters!:
Pinny - Scrapper
Shadewing - Defender
@Pinny

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinny View Post
Obviously I won't do it multiple times, since there's no point.
No point? But...but...there are badges!


Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.

 

Posted

Most people already have the badges....or will by then.

Thats not the point....I don't mind doing the tf...I do them all the time - for my friends as well as merits.

Will i enjoy the extra merits? Of course.

Again not the point...the choice of the TF is messy. It doesn't seem to fit the scheem of incarnate system or its purpose.

Maybe it's just not understanding the developer purpose...

Incarnate is an excellent reason to dust off the old 50's, using a lower level TF doesn't.


LvL 50 Dark Dark, Emp/Rad Defenders
LvL 50 Inv/Axe, Fire/Fire, Stone/Stone, Mace/Shield Tanks, EM/Inv
LvL 50 Spines/DA Scrapper
LvL 50 Ice/Storm, Ice/Rad, Earth/Rad, 2 Fire/Kin, Ill/Rad, Grav/FF, Controller Elec/Storm
LvL 50 Bots/FF, Merc/Traps, MM Thugs/Traps, Demon/Thermal