Overall task force/trial revamp (and a side of shard)
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-01-23 12:48 in Suggestions and Ideas
I have to agree with you on the shard being the perfect place to look for new incarnate work. (I'll need time to think about your other ideas.)
I find it odd that Cole can limit or strip down our powers, yet we aren't doing the same to his forces. By heading out into the Shard, we can find things that don't have to "cheat" to require incarnate levels of power.
"I do so love taking a nice, well thought out character and putting them through hell. It's like tossing a Faberge Egg onto the stage during a Gallagher concert." - me
@Palador / @Rabid Unicorn
i'll /sign this.
Even greater bonus points for the World of Cardboard speech reference.
I suppose this would force coop zoning the shadow shard, but I'll accept it in this case.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
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i would be all for this as i completely dislike 75% of heroside tfs/trials, whatever
i also enjoy the shadow shard, but i hate heroside, and wish i could get there straight from villainside
i also thinking that adding more content to the shard is the way to go, praetoria is alright, but nowhere near how awesome the content for the shard would be
/Signed in every single language in the world, ten thousand times over. This, frankly, HAS to happen.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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to also add to what your saying, i think it would prolly be the best to actually just remove starting requirements from tfs, because with the upper tier alpha boosts coming out, tfs will be easier and not everyone runs tfs with a minimum requirement team and this is the ONLY thing in the game that you need to find pads for anymore since the difficulty settings changes
edit: trials should still require a minimum number since they are trials, although the requirements of some trials should be looked at
Alot of "cloned" missions can be removed from TFs.
Investigate Base 1
Investigate Base 2
Investigate Base 3
Investigate Base 4
That was just put in to keep us busy, the story could be told by just doing one or 2 bases.
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Heck yeah. I was really hoping the incarnate content would be focused on the shard and not Preatoria. I'm still holding out hope that some of the later slots will be shard focused though. The zones are beautiful, they need more reasons to go there.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
While we're on the subject of the shard, this is a great opportunity to put in some solo/small team, Incarnate-appropriate content, as well. After all, the Shard's the broken mind and prison of a godlike being that devours dimensions - the Incarnate "theme" is you getting that level of power. It's someplace apart from the Praetoria storyline that would be fully appropriate to pull a Superman-ish "... but you can take it, can't you. I don't have to hold back..." style fight.
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Originally Posted by Blood_Beret
Alot of "cloned" missions can be removed from TFs.
Investigate Base 1 Investigate Base 2 Investigate Base 3 Investigate Base 4 That was just put in to keep us busy, the story could be told by just doing one or 2 bases. |
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
The hollows "trial" gets turned into a task force, with a smaller (preferrably 3) person requirement. Much friendlier introduction to it than "Well, if one person drops or gets disconnected, you're all screwed."
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<.<
Is there ANYONE who ran the Cavern of Transcendence Trial as the first Trial/TF they were exposed to? Even before xp smoothing, patrol xp, and a repeatable contact in the Hollows, I had to try to unlock Karsis as a contact. Getting to Julius the Troll before lv15 is no problem. Avoiding gaining 3 levels during his mission arc so that you can be introduced to Talshak the Mystic is.
Besides, I suspect that the Minions of Igneous combined with a 90-minute timer and a door in the middle of the Tunnels of the Trolls (all at max lv15) is a far greater threat to the success of the trial than an 8-man simultaneous click.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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First, no.|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
Is there ANYONE who ran the Cavern of Transcendence Trial as the first Trial/TF they were exposed to? Even before xp smoothing, patrol xp, and a repeatable contact in the Hollows, I had to try to unlock Karsis as a contact. Getting to Julius the Troll before lv15 is no problem. Avoiding gaining 3 levels during his mission arc so that you can be introduced to Talshak the Mystic is.
Besides, I suspect that the Minions of Igneous combined with a 90-minute timer and a door in the middle of the Tunnels of the Trolls (all at max lv15) is a far greater threat to the success of the trial than an 8-man simultaneous click. |
Early, yes. (Debt starting at level 5 with the old instant-appearing high spawns made it rather... too easy not to outlevel it. Even if you weren't trying.)
Most failed by percentage? Yep. Especially when someone quits/goes AFK/gets disconnected to the trial *cannot be completed by any means,* thanks to the 8 glowie simul-click nonsense at the end.
The minions are a bit rough, sure, but someone with stealth/SS and Recall Friend - especially now with the "Assemble the Team" vet power - makes the tunnels pretty much a non-issue.
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I thought we were talking about someone who had never done any other TF or Trial before. Considering it's the lowest level team-gated content in the game, I think it's fair to assume a low level character (DOs at best, no benefit of +5 levels worth of powers, no extra slots), they're not veterans (no Assemble), and they're not prepared for the Trial (Stealth, Super Speed, and Recall Friend by level 14 on a non-vet? That's 4 pool powers out of 9 power selections by that level, and only 1 non-pool selection since lv6.)|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
The minions are a bit rough, sure, but someone with stealth/SS and Recall Friend - especially now with the "Assemble the Team" vet power - makes the tunnels pretty much a non-issue.
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I'm not arguing that it shouldn't be changed, but an 8-person simultaneous click isn't that much of a chore compared to the Tunnels and the Igneous. Also, while the player may have dealt with Igneous before, it probably wasn't Igneous spawned for 8.
Now, if the team is experienced and prepared, the current incarnation of the CoT Trial can take about 10 minutes. Last time I ran it, I was leading the team with a no-longer-with-us FF/Radiation Defender who used Teleport for his travel power. PFF was plenty to ignore the Trolls and teleport the team to the mission door, and then another player had Group Invisibility (so no need to teleport each team member to an obelisk individually). Time from entering the mission to mission complete couldn't have been more than 5 minutes.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
I'm pretty sure they are saving the Shadow Shard for some kind of big, massive "Rikti War Zone" esque revamp deep into the end game.
An event so big it could be thought of as a Coming Storm (TM)...
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I have no beef with most of the TF's. I'm all for your shard changes. If they did all that I'd like to see some sort of supression system for geysers so they put you where they are supposed to without having to deal with the O.S..t moment of missing or boucing off a rock. Geysers are much faster than most travel powers, so long as you don't miss.
I'm drifting. If/when the TF's are revamped i have no issues with the changes you propose. I think requiring less than 4 players defeats the meaning of a "task force". But if you want to run it solo an alternate version could be thrown into the oro portal. As most content that has been removed/changed ends up there anyway.
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Positron's TF only needs three to start. That's specifically what I was thinking of when putting in that "Maximum." (Well, that and a prior suggestion that came up in a different thread of "Hit 50 = can start TFs solo, if you want.") Otherwise, it's a reduction of the ones requiring six or eight to four.
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Originally Posted by the_fox_Rox
I'm drifting. If/when the TF's are revamped i have no issues with the changes you propose. I think requiring less than 4 players defeats the meaning of a "task force".
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didn't know about positron, never run it with less than 5-6 tbh. Still anything less than that is a duo. In which case maybe they ought to have some dynamic duo escapades that you could run with 2 player...maybe that's a bad idea...
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As I've heard/recall it, a lot of the trouble with the Shard TFs is that they were meant to showcase new (interior) maps and other content that was cut at the last minute... but the missions weren't.
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Originally Posted by Megajoule
As I've heard/recall it, a lot of the trouble with the Shard TFs is that they were meant to showcase new (interior) maps and other content that was cut at the last minute... but the missions weren't.
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Yeah, no.
Shard really needs an overhaul.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Simply put - some (most) of the old stuff needs help. And there's no real difference, any more, between a "task force" and a "trial" - hasn't really been at any point.
So how about if we have them have some meaning, and do a little revamping.
"Task Forces" get their minimum # to start equalized at four, maximum. Yes, some need to be adjusted for this, and some "trials" (thinking primarily of the Hollows) need actual content work - I can't think of the last time I ran this thing, TBH, but keeping eight pugged low levels together ends up being worse than herding cats.
Current task forces *generally* will end up in this. As will most current "trials."
"Trials" end up as large-group (8 or, as in the COP, more) projects. (This having some historical precedent, as Faultline was initially supposed to be a trial *zone* - essentially a raid working its way from one side to the other. This, quite obviously, never was put into play.)
While vets will still end up referring to them as whatever they were before for a while, it'll be a flag as to what to expect.
In addition, it *should* mean some old content gets a long overdue looking at. The hollows "trial" gets turned into a task force, with a smaller (preferrably 3) person requirement. Much friendlier introduction to it than "Well, if one person drops or gets disconnected, you're all screwed." And, on the other side, the hell TFs in the Shard can get *their* much overdue attention, get some of the missions trimmed out and generally streamlined and reworked for 4 people with normal scaling for higher team size, difficulty settings, etc.
While we're on the subject of the shard, this is a great opportunity to put in some solo/small team, Incarnate-appropriate content, as well. After all, the Shard's the broken mind and prison of a godlike being that devours dimensions - the Incarnate "theme" is you getting that level of power. It's someplace apart from the Praetoria storyline that would be fully appropriate to pull a Superman-ish "... but you can take it, can't you. I don't have to hold back..." style fight.