City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Recharge: Alpha slot vs. Set Bonuses and LOTGs? (WM/SD)

Deus_Otiosus

By Deus_Otiosus,
Posted on: 2011-01-08 17:36 in Brutes

 

Posted

Yet another returning player here, been gone since a little after CoV dropped. Pretty pleased with a lot of the new stuff - dinged 50 with the wm/sd brute I started along with my return.

Anyway, I just slotted the recharge Alpha (can't recall the name) on him just for kicks, and I got to say the buff was significant. It got me wondering though, the Recharge/Resist line is appealing to me to try to get a little more out of resists in /sd.

Are either of those ideas viable, or is the general consensus that you get more bang for your buck going the set bonus/LOTG route to get recharge, then using Alpha for something else?

My thought was to get recharge out of the Alpha slot, and be able to have different goals for slots. Blue bar management isn't quite up to par with the new SpeedMace (tm), but I'm not optimized there quite yet anyway.

I imagine there are as many ways to answer this as there are any other general build question, but I'm not quite savvy enough with the numbers to know the difference between 33% recharge on a power (alpha slot) and a 7.5% global recharge bonus. Do global bonuses translate 1:1 with enhancement bonuses (before ED)?

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MayorOfAngrytown View Post
Anyway, I just slotted the recharge Alpha (can't recall the name) on him just for kicks, and I got to say the buff was significant.
It's the Spiritual Boost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MayorOfAngrytown View Post
It got me wondering though, the Recharge/Resist line is appealing to me to try to get a little more out of resists in /sd.
I think you mean Cardiac, which is Endurance Reduction & Resistance, not Recharge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MayorOfAngrytown View Post
Are either of those ideas viable, or is the general consensus that you get more bang for your buck going the set bonus/LOTG route to get recharge, then using Alpha for something else?
Recharge from sets & LoTGs is global, it is not affected by ED.

The Spiritual Alpha (Recharge) is like a global +recharge SO to any power that can slot a Recharge SO - it is affected by ED. The amount that is affected by ED depends on the tier of the boost.

Here's some reading at paragon wiki: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Alpha_Slot_Abilities


Quote:
Originally Posted by MayorOfAngrytown View Post
My thought was to get recharge out of the Alpha slot, and be able to have different goals for slots. Blue bar management isn't quite up to par with the new SpeedMace (tm), but I'm not optimized there quite yet anyway.
Well, that depends on your build, the sets you slot and the epic pool you do or no not choose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MayorOfAngrytown View Post
I imagine there are as many ways to answer this as there are any other general build question, but I'm not quite savvy enough with the numbers to know the difference between 33% recharge on a power (alpha slot) and a 7.5% global recharge bonus. Do global bonuses translate 1:1 with enhancement bonuses (before ED)?
Global Recharge bonuses function exactly as if every single power you have has that amount of Recharge added to it, except it completely ignores ED. So yes, a 1:1, but it's more powerful in how it functions.

 

Posted

Thanks Deus, the paragon wiki link was very helpful, as always. I did get my secondary effects confused. Cardiac was the other line that I was looking at. I imagine the healing secondary works with powers that increase max hp, like True Grit in my case, so that's an interesting bit as well.

I did have a question on resistance, how significant is a 2% difference really? Is say, 17% fire resist enough better than 15% that it's worth using the slot for a res io rather than a set piece or a global?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus View Post
Well, that depends on your build, the sets you slot and the epic pool you do or no not choose.

Global Recharge bonuses function exactly as if every single power you have has that amount of Recharge added to it, except it completely ignores ED. So yes, a 1:1, but it's more powerful in how it functions.
I resolved a good portion of the end problems by slotting a couple of Perf. Shifter process (in stamina and physical perfection). Big difference.

I'm mostly thinking about this from the sense of where to put slots. Let's say, for instance, that I'm getting 1/6th of 33% that is immune to ED. That's 5.5% which is slightly less than 1LoTG. I think the far end of the Spiritual line is 2/3 of 45% which nets 30% immune to ED. Am i crazy for thinking that functions basically like slotting 4 LoTGs for comparison sake? If that's the case, then I'm wondering if that gives me a little more flexibility in slotting for other bonuses.

I'm on a work break at the moment, so I can't post a build. I've kind of wanted to, just to see what folks thought I could do next. At the moment I'm built for soft-capping (that's 45% right?) positionals (44.6/45.2/44.8 currently in game I think). Got to that through a lot of 6 slot bonuses, hence my need to economize to get recharge, or rethink my build completely. Power wise I think if I can find a way to drop Maneuvers and keep my def numbers up then the last shreds of blue bar issues might just disappear.

I'll probably toss the build up on here later tonight, just to see what folks think.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MayorOfAngrytown View Post
I did have a question on resistance, how significant is a 2% difference really? Is say, 17% fire resist enough better than 15% that it's worth using the slot for a res io rather than a set piece or a global?
In actual play, I doubt you will ever notice.

If you are someone who is willing to spare no expense for every last shred of performance, 2% can be a lot.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MayorOfAngrytown View Post
I resolved a good portion of the end problems by slotting a couple of Perf. Shifter process (in stamina and physical perfection). Big difference.

I'm mostly thinking about this from the sense of where to put slots. Let's say, for instance, that I'm getting 1/6th of 33% that is immune to ED. That's 5.5% which is slightly less than 1LoTG. I think the far end of the Spiritual line is 2/3 of 45% which nets 30% immune to ED. Am i crazy for thinking that functions basically like slotting 4 LoTGs for comparison sake? If that's the case, then I'm wondering if that gives me a little more flexibility in slotting for other bonuses.
No, not crazy. The Ultra Rare will ignore 2/3rds of ED, so the Core at +45% rech will be adding something like 30-33% recharge to every power that can slot recharge.

That's pretty huge.

Since you went for Energy mastery, I would say you should go that route as you probably don't really need more endurance assistance.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MayorOfAngrytown View Post
At the moment I'm built for soft-capping (that's 45% right?) positionals (44.6/45.2/44.8 currently in game I think).
Yes 45%, and you want Melee, Ranged & AoE at that number.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MayorOfAngrytown View Post
Got to that through a lot of 6 slot bonuses, hence my need to economize to get recharge, or rethink my build completely. Power wise I think if I can find a way to drop Maneuvers and keep my def numbers up then the last shreds of blue bar issues might just disappear.
Toss up a build, unless you have some very specific and extensive concept powers that you must have, softcapping a WM/SD without maneuvers or the Gladiator Unique is relatively easy (you should have at least 3 solid melee attacks for melee/ranged def & 3 AoEs for Sciroccos or Obliteration for AoE or melee+rech).

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus View Post
In actual play, I doubt you will ever notice.

If you are someone who is willing to spare no expense for every last shred of performance, 2% can be a lot.
Well, I'm still in "no purples, no pvps" territory, at least for now. Outside of that, getting what I need hasn't really been that much of a problem. The build I'm running currently is below. Pieced it together over span of time starting around 45 or so. Didn't seem to take that long really.

I do want to see how much I can juice this brute though. I go back and forth, do I want to keep enhancing resist in TG, or do I want to move those slots, or do I want a set in there? :lol:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus View Post
No, not crazy. The Ultra Rare will ignore 2/3rds of ED, so the Core at +45% rech will be adding something like 30-33% recharge to every power that can slot recharge.

That's pretty huge.

Since you went for Energy mastery, I would say you should go that route as you probably don't really need more endurance assistance.
Thanks. I had a feeling it would work like that, but I didn't entirely understand how ED factored in before.

The more I think about it, the more Spiritual makes the most sense for the way I've built so far. The damage bonus might be nice, but the secondaries on that are less useful, the accuracy might be nice, but I'm not sure I'll need it. I could take Cardiac and choose a different epic/patron, but I'm not sure any of them benefit wm/ like Energy does.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus View Post
Toss up a build, unless you have some very specific and extensive concept powers that you must have, softcapping a WM/SD without maneuvers or the Gladiator Unique is relatively easy (you should have at least 3 solid melee attacks for melee/ranged def & 3 AoEs for Sciroccos or Obliteration for AoE or melee+rech).
Nope, no concept powers here, well save for the idea that I don't want anything that adds more redraw (AD and SC create enough).

Here's what I've put together thus far. The build is basically where I am in game, the only differences are that Deflection has a +Res IO instead of the Def/End piece and I don't have the +rech in Grant Cover just yet.

I'd love to dump Manuevers, and maybe Shatter. I want to like Shatter and sometimes it comes through as an AoE, but the animation seems so long and the cone is so narrow. Feh. I think as my recharge goes up I won't want it at all. I think there's a few <lvl 50 IOs left in there as well. I'm not really sure what to do with those spaces. Medicine pool? Hasten and something else?

One change I definitely want to make is taking the extra slot off SJ and putting the slow resist there, assuming it's worth keeping.

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.91
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Brute
Primary Power Set: War Mace
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Pulverize -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(3), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(3), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), T'Death-Dam%(7)
Level 1: Deflection -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/EndRdx(A), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(21), LkGmblr-Def(34), LkGmblr-Rchg+(42), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(43), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 2: Battle Agility -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(31), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(37), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(42), RedFtn-Def(45), RedFtn-EndRdx(45)
Level 4: Jawbreaker -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(7), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(9), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(11), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11)
Level 6: Build Up -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(31), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(43), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(46), GSFC-Build%(46), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(48)
Level 8: True Grit -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(13), ResDam-I(21), ResDam-I(39)
Level 10: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(13)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I(A)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Winter-ResSlow(A), Jump-I(40)
Level 16: Clobber -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(17), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(17), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(19), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), Mako-Dam%(39)
Level 18: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 20: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 22: Whirling Mace -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(23), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(23), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(25), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(25), Zinger-Dam%(27)
Level 24: Tough -- Aegis-ResDam(A), Aegis-Psi/Status(37), EndRdx-I(39)
Level 26: Shatter -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg(A), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(27), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(29), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx(29), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 28: Phalanx Fighting -- Ksmt-ToHit+(A)
Level 30: Grant Cover -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Crowd Control -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg(33), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(33), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Erad-%Dam(34)
Level 35: Shield Charge -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(36), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Oblit-%Dam(40)
Level 38: One with the Shield -- Heal-I(A), ResDam-I(40)
Level 41: Superior Conditioning -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(42)
Level 44: Physical Perfection -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-End%(45), Heal-I(46), Heal-I(50)
Level 47: Weave -- DefBuff-I(A), EndRdx-I(48), EndRdx-I(50)
Level 49: Maneuvers -- EndRdx-I(A), DefBuff-I(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Fury
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(15)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(15)
------------
Set Bonus Totals:
  • 13% DamageBuff(Smashing)
  • 13% DamageBuff(Lethal)
  • 13% DamageBuff(Fire)
  • 13% DamageBuff(Cold)
  • 13% DamageBuff(Energy)
  • 13% DamageBuff(Negative)
  • 13% DamageBuff(Toxic)
  • 13% DamageBuff(Psionic)
  • 8.938% Defense(Smashing)
  • 8.938% Defense(Lethal)
  • 8.313% Defense(Fire)
  • 8.313% Defense(Cold)
  • 10.5% Defense(Energy)
  • 10.5% Defense(Negative)
  • 3% Defense(Psionic)
  • 14.88% Defense(Melee)
  • 13.31% Defense(Ranged)
  • 13.63% Defense(AoE)
  • 1.8% Max End
  • 30% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
  • 34% Enhancement(Accuracy)
  • 15% FlySpeed
  • 140.56 HP (9.377%) HitPoints
  • 15% JumpHeight
  • 15% JumpSpeed
  • MezResist(Held) 6.05%
  • MezResist(Immobilize) 10.45%
  • MezResist(Sleep) 1.65%
  • MezResist(Stun) 3.85%
  • 4% (0.067 End/sec) Recovery
  • 20% (1.252 HP/sec) Regeneration
  • 20% ResEffect(FlySpeed)
  • 20% ResEffect(RechargeTime)
  • 20% ResEffect(RunSpeed)
  • 2.205% Resistance(Fire)
  • 2.205% Resistance(Cold)
  • 3.125% Resistance(Negative)
  • 5.5% Resistance(Psionic)
  • 20% RunSpeed
  • 2% XPDebtProtection



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Posted

Here's the same build with some slotting changes. I worked this up pretty quickly, so there might be some things I've overlooked.

Keep shatter, aside from being a great place for PBAoE sets, it's a solid attack overall. I'm not great fan of cone attacks, but this is one of the better ones IMO.

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Posted

Thanks again Deus!

I'll take a peek when I get home tonight. It'll be interesting to see the slotting choices, I had several powers I wasn't entirely certain what to do with.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus View Post
Here's the same build with some slotting changes. I worked this up pretty quickly, so there might be some things I've overlooked.

Keep shatter, aside from being a great place for PBAoE sets, it's a solid attack overall. I'm not great fan of cone attacks, but this is one of the better ones IMO.
Thanks again man. I do think Shatter is going to stay. There are times when mobs line up in a way (like doorways) that's just too juicy to give up.

I knew you got that together really quick, but it helps give me an idea of how to use multiples of sets to get where I want to be. My approach was to just use one of something for a while to get a feel on how bonuses add up. I also like the idea of taking a broad range of set bonuses, thinking that would suit /sd fairly well.

I noticed though that there's an extra 3% damage bonus that breaks the rule of 5's, and that resistances are down in favor of HP. That makes sense in one sense as I try to team when I can, and want to do more TFs which means running with buffers.

OTOH, I like the idea of the base resistances bolstering me under the soft-capped defenses. I also end up playing late-night PST hours, and I often am stuck soloing.

I only need a couple of shards before I can bump up to the Uncommon level Spiritual. I'll be taking the rech/healing line, so I'm curious to see how that impacts TG and OWTS. After that I'll fiddle around somewhat with the build some more.

I'm noticing too that I'm gaining inf a lot faster the more I put into this guy. I think I'll also mess around with a build that throws in a little purple just to have a goal. Any suggestions on staying soft-capped while going that route?

Working mad hours for the rest of this month, so might take a bit to get these things going.