Is there any point to using lvl 50 set IOs?
By
Camper,
Posted on: 2010-09-29 06:21 in Player Questions
I hope I'm thinking about this the right way. ED doesn't discriminate based on level. You get less % benefit from the third enhancement of a type regardless of whether it's level 50 or 30. Overall you still get more benefit from the 50's since they're higher base %.
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@Mr.Catastrophe
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oh so it's based on the number of enhancements in a slot? I always thought you hit a wall when you reach a certain % of benefit
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Originally Posted by Catastrophe
I hope I'm thinking about this the right way. ED doesn't discriminate based on level. You get less % benefit from the third enhancement of a type regardless of whether it's level 50 or 30. Overall you still get more benefit from the 50's since they're higher base %.
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Yes you always have to factor ED into your planning. But the thing about IO sets is that they usually affect so many different aspects of what you can buff up that ED doesn't really get in the way as much as you'd think.|
Originally Posted by Dz131
Assuming you're slotting say 3-4 of the set wouldnt' you hit ED really fast when using lvl 50 versions? So you wouldn't benefit from their higher +% amounts much more than say using lvl 30 ones
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For example if you slot all 6 of an IO set into a power it might collectively buff up Damage, Accuracy, Recharge, END, Range and so on. Because the set buffs up so many different things there's not really any one single aspect (like Damage for instance) that gets buffed up so much that ED chops it down too much. Instead of having one quality buffed up too high a set usually balances out all the collective buffs well enough that you don't lose any significant benefit to ED.
The real advantage of IO sets is the fact that each enhancement usually buffs up 2 or 3 different things. It's like getting extra slots for a power WITHOUT suffering most of the ED drawbacks.
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This is incorrect. ED works on the % enhancement of the aspect not the level of the enhancements providing the aspect. The 3 enhancement barrier stems from the numbers provided by SOs.|
Originally Posted by Catastrophe
I hope I'm thinking about this the right way. ED doesn't discriminate based on level. You get less % benefit from the third enhancement of a type regardless of whether it's level 50 or 30. Overall you still get more benefit from the 50's since they're higher base %.
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Example:
Common IO Damage slotting:
2 Enhancements:
Level 30s: 69.6 %
Level 50s: 83.32 % (reduced from 84.8 %)
3 Enhancements:
Level 30s: 95.66 % (reduced from 104.4 %)
Level 50s: 99.08 % (reduced from 127.2 %)
There is a nice chart on Paragonwiki that shows the breakpoint: Chart
Depending on how many pieces you use there is not much difference in enhancement values between level 50 sets and say level 35 sets. Level 50 recipes are much more available than lower level ones, while the set bonuses of the lower level ones would exemplar farther without failing.
Also, while a set may ED cap for one attribute (like Damage), it may not ED cap on other attributes (Accuracy, EndRdx, Recharge). The level 50 sets will thus give you a fair amount of extra enhancement of the non-capped attributes over level 30 sets.
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I thought that's what I said, just without the fancy chart link and exact numbers. Thanks for clarifying.
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Originally Posted by Krogoth
This is incorrect. ED works on the % enhancement of the aspect not the level of the enhancements providing the aspect.
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Pinnacle
@Mr.Catastrophe
The thing that hasn't been mentioned is that, when dealing with specific sets for set bonuses, many sets have been designed so that the do not add enough enhancement to get every type of enhancement to the ED cap.
For example, the top level Touch of Death set, at level 40, only gives 43.4% enhancement to recharge -- nowhere near the ED "soft cap" of 95%. You could use lower-level Touch of Death IOs so that you'd get the set bonus when exemplared, but then you'd get even less recharge enhancement.
Many, many sets -- maybe all of them -- are like this; there's nothing that will give you 95% acc and recharge and damage and end reduction, for example. You can get enhancement like that, or close to it, but you have to "frankenslot," giving up set bonuses. You can't have it all.
There are benefits to going as low as possible -- earlier set bonuses when exemplaring -- and benefits to going as high as possible -- better enhancement % especially in areas where the set is weakest.
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There are a few sets that are "over the ED cap" by a lot - crushing impact, for instance, has Dam in every piece and is over the ED cap at level 30, with one of the triples not slotted.
There are a few sets that are UNDER the ED cap even at level 50, on crucial aspects. Mako's, if I remember, gets you only 92% damage by slotting all 6. [it has a 3% global damage boost, but still... kinda cheap.]
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Actually this is pretty much -exactly- what I said about it. |
Originally Posted by Sailboat
The thing that hasn't been mentioned is that, when dealing with specific sets for set bonuses, many sets have been designed so that the do not add enough enhancement to get every type of enhancement to the ED cap.
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But since you probably explained it a little better than I did I won't quibble too much.
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Not really, sorry. What you said made it sound like the exact opposite of what it is. Depending on the Stat, there's several different ED caps (Schedules). Schedule A is the most common, covering Acc, Dmg and other common attributes. The closer you get to 100% bonus, the more ED kicks in.|
Originally Posted by Catastrophe
I thought that's what I said, just without the fancy chart link and exact numbers. Thanks for clarifying.
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What you said made it sound like lower level enhancers had lower caps, and the caps kicked in based on the number slotted in a power. Not at all true. You could slot 6 Damage Training Origins in a power and most of them would be fully effective, for example.
After reading what you wrote 4 times, I see what you were getting at, but the third sentence really garbled your meaning.
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Thunderstrike also goes over the ED damage cap buy a good amount, if I remember right.
Another thing to keep in mind is the effect of exemplaring on the %s.
Exemplar reductions apply before ED. So if you have 127% slotted at 50 it gets ED'd to 99%. If you exemplar down to a point where that 127 is only giving you 90%, ED no longer applies. If you had 90% at level 50, when you exemped, you'd be sitting on 70-ish.
Frankenslotting you can bypass this altogether and keep the full bonus from 50 to 21.
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Assuming you're slotting say 3-4 of the set wouldnt' you hit ED really fast when using lvl 50 versions? So you wouldn't benefit from their higher +% amounts much more than say using lvl 30 ones