I have narrowed it down!

Such an extrapolation [that since I dislike anime', this automatically MUST mean that I approach everything in life with similar heavyhanded nay-say-itude - obviously my dislike of anime' was instantateous and delivered to my frontal lobes without so much as a scintilla of a rationale! omg!], is a very dangerous thing. That's just not how people in general are, much less me. Its far too great of a simplification.

I "hate what I don't understand"?! Ha. As if anime is a deep philosophical subject taking years of study to understand. Those babyfaced pre-teens wearing garters and cat-ears are a complicated concept! You know... I don't think so.

If you like this stuff, fine. And it is true that we could use some refination of the non-human parts we have in the game now.

But City of Furries? Pass, thanks.

Compared to what you *think* anime is, I'd say, yeah anime is pretty deep.

But my point is, more or less, is that hating something because you don't understand it is beyond ignorance...it's downright idiotic. Beyond that, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's a bad idea and frankly, your argument that it breaks immersion doesn't hold water.

Cheers,

Squirrel Girl: Defeated Doctor Doom and Thanos, among others, and was beat out for a spot on the Fantastic Four by She-Hulk.

Furry is a superset of catgirl, not the definition.

Bad Horse, the Thoroughbred of Sin and the leader of the Evil League of Evil (Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog)

And don't forget, Evil Dr. Horsehead, the nemesis of Supercaptaincoolman (the Curtis comic strip)

Go watch Paranoia Agent or Serial Experiments Lain. Graveyard of the Fireflies and The Sky Crawlers would be some good movies to watch; no cat ears there, and they (shock!) have meaning. If Xanatos Speed Chess isn't an affront to your intelligence, look at Code Geass (oh wait, that has Cheese-kun, the mascot for Pizza Hut in Japan; it's also got people in cat costumes for a cat-themed party in one episode) or Death Note. I would suggest Night on the Galactic Railroad, but the protagonist and several secondary characters are cats, not simply people with cat ears, so you might reject it out of hand.

What about Blood+? Dealing with issues of being thrust into a world you didn't ask for, and fighting against an opponent you don't want to beat but can't afford to lose to?

Read or Die? The irony of cleansing the world of people and their destructive technology by using even more advanced technology? Making a clone of your girlfriend and killing her whenever she gets uppity?

R.O.D. the TV? Controlling the world's information and book burning are hardly thought-provoking at all.

Pet Shop of Horrors? A spotlight on the hubris of humanity. (Admittedly, the Pet Shop of Horrors anime comes up extremely shot when compared to the manga of the same name, considering only 6 episodes were ever made.)




And this is just an edited list of anime I own, removing things with mindless action or catgirls (god forbid I suggest .hack//Roots, an anime which takes place entirely within an MMO and has both a catgirl and a cat-oldmandyingofcancer as major characters).

Or even Ghost in the Shell in all of its incarnations. Trying to say what anime "is" is about as pointless as trying to say what books "are." Anime is a medium, it is animation made in Japan. Nothing more, nothing less. It's the Japanese culture's interpretation of storytelling and aesthetics, which is something which is not at all foreign in American comic books in the slightest.

Furthermore, trying to define what American comic books are, or rather what they aren't, is just as futile, because they span themes and stories from across the world's cultures. And even then, the game isn't hamstrung into only doing things that can be found in a physical comic book.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

I understand anime just fine, thanks. I simply do not like it, and if I wanted to be playing characters which resemble what usually springs to mind when "anime" is mentioned, I'd find me a new MMO. Im sure there is one out there which is thematically appropriate. Most likely more than one.

With that said, I find your insinuations that I am "ignorant" and "idiotic" to be both uncalled-for and offensive: after all, you hold an opposing viewpoint, yet I have said no such thing to you. Pray return the courtesy.

I'll leave the baby-faced, 38-DD sporting, garter-wearing bunny girls to you, you can have 'em all. Cheers.

These two statements contradict each other.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

I know what image pops into your mind, but you seem incapable of comprehending that this is not the same image which pops into my mind, or that of other people who have posted here. To you, the image of anime is the absurdity you described above. To me, anime is Ghost in the Shell, Akira and Battle Angel Alita before it is anything else. And those three things are just a few of a much broader series of concepts that I would very much like to see the game represent in more detail.

In particular, I am very interested in a broader selection of actual cybernetic parts that don't look like mangled tech, but rather appear more humanoid in shape, but machine in nature. I would kill if I could get a decent approximation of Battle Angel Alita's Gally, though I will be fair when I say that Clockwork pieces are a good bit in the right direction. But they both belong to an existing faction and are one single solitary set of such parts among a massive selection of "humans in suits" parts.

If I had to expand on this, anime to me is also Soul Eater and series of a similar stylised design, employing unrealistic combat styles and unreasonable weapons, such as an oversized and apparently very heavy scythe. In fact, I based an entire character off Maka's outfit from the same series, which is basically a black trenchcoat over a school girl uniform, that I ended up having to modify.

I don't know what anime you've been watching, but I dare say it's prudent to avoid trying to speak about "what comes to mind" in a general sense when you show clear bias. Obviously, there is plenty of stupid stuff in anime along with the good, but I would sooner pick and choose the good bits and take in some of the bad bits than throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

In that case, we do already have tentacles, a staple of hentai everywhere.

In any case, Bad Influence, the issue isn't whether or not you dislike anime (your perogative). The issue is that you think your dislike of anime is qualification alone of condemning someone else's suggestion. Your perception of what is or is not a superhero is NOT the one true philosophy on things, nor is mine, nor is Fleetings, or Leo's or anybody's.

Frankly, if you're only comment on a thread is likely to be "no thanks" or "I don't like X, so I'll pass" then it would be better just not to post. There are plenty of suggestions that I dislike intensely. My response to them: NOT POST TO THEM. That is someone else's opinion, and it is what would make the game more fun for them. It is usually not going to impact my game play in the slightest. If it does, then I will comment.

Costume pieces are not something that falls into "affects my gameplay". If I run across a piece that so thoroughly offends me that I'd rather not be faced with it, I'll just not deal with those players that use said piece.

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What follows is basically due to me enjoying a good discussion and would more or less continue the argument that anime does not equal furry...or big breasts for that matter, and some discussion on good anime.
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Medusa, Nagas, Faerie, Satyrs, Fauns, Mermaids, Werewolves, Werepanthers (South America), Weresharks (pacific island), Raven shapeshifters (couple of places), Centaurs, Camazotz, Succubi, Echidna, Anubis, Isis, Horus, Set, Minotaur...

Anthropomorphized animals or, more precisely, human forms with added animal features are a common aspect of pretty much every culture.

As to characters that fit the trend from Western culture, there are, indeed, less of them in the Hero category. We have a long history of demonizing those particular aspects of our culture to a greater or lesser extent. In addition, we have drawn significantly from the Greek concept of perfect mind and perfect body so that we like our heroes to be physically perfect specimens: ideals.

But we do have:

Dark Angel and it's animal-hybrids (aside from the human looking ones)

numerous heroic werewolves

Wolfsbane (might fall under the same)

Hawkman and Hawkgirl

Angel

Killer Croc

A few characters from some incarnations of GI Joe's Cobra

A large number of characters from Champions' universe.

Beast

Nightcrawler

A couple of Black Bolt's people.

Wolverine to an extent.

Some phases of Spiderman's career.

Thundercats

Gold Digger (admittedly, having a Japanese style artwork and using some Japanese tropes, but still mainly drawing from Western stories)

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, which has a large variety of mutant animals heroic and otherwise

Street Sharks

There's one sci-fi western cartoon aimed at kids initially which is cow people.

There's a cartoon about mutated dogs.

Duck Tales

Tale Spin

Darkwing Duck

Bugs Bunny

Daffy Duck

Johnny Darko's Pooka

Tex Avery's Red Hot Riding Hood

In reality, the stereotypical furry/anthro art is NOT very related to anime art styles.

In fact, the most often used art styles by furry artists, at least Western, are Disney and Looney Toons style art.

Anime "furries" are generally limited to cat ears and tail, maybe with sharp teeth and some fur...they are actually somewhat LESS tolerant of full blown anthropomorphism in their main characters than Western cartoons are.

I think the catgirl there is actually a wolf-girl...she claims to be a werewolf, but I disregard that.


anyway....you could have mentioned some of the following too:

Darker than Black (this one is especially good for CoH and those of you that want anti-heroes...I may have just unleashed a host of Chinese Electric Batmen on us all): http://www.hulu.com/darker-than-blac...n-and-Cartoons

Shikabane Hime (though the last two episodes will make you want to bash your skull into a wall)

Ghost Hunt

Full Metal Panic!

Oh My Goddess!

Trigun (there's an excellent dissertation out there making the entire series into an allegory of the life of Christ in some aspects)

Ruruoni Kenshin

Monster (oh hell, Monster)

If you want a fantasy that focuses on economics rather than war: Spice and Wolf

Actually, the vast majority of anime and manga has nothing even remotely looking like a furry...and they MAKE FUN of people that dress like that regularly).

Heck, I can't even name that many real cat-girls or other animal girls that show up in anime.

As to big breasts, yeah, there are a few, most often secondary characters, most of the female characters I like are rather slender.

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Huh... Now that could be an interesting addition. But it does explain the apparent selective perception seen here.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

I have to disagree here. There's nothing wrong with stepping into a suggestion to explain why you don't like it, as long as you don't turn it into a crusade to keep the suggestion down. Suggestions need a decent discussion, and that takes both supporters and dissenters.

I come from a culture which has historically used animal characters in children's stories by giving them human characteristics. This goes beyond the cunning fox and the ever-threatened rabbit, too.

Not only does it draw on Western styles, but Fred Perry, the comic's creator, is American, himself. Gold Digger is an American comic book, and though it may not have been published by Marvel, DC or Image, it still counts,

It has always been thoroughly confounding to me that "furry hate" people are capable of demonising even slight anthropomorphism, yet completely neglect the kinds of Disney and Warner Bros. cartoons an entire generation (namely, my generation) grew up. I don't know when these people grew up (both companies have been around for decades), but when I was a kid, I watched shows like Top Cat, Scooby Doo, the Swat Kats, Talespin, Disney's Jungle Book, the Lion King and so on and so forth. For a time, it seemed like replacing people with anthropomorphic animals was just what cartoons did, and it was OK. Suddenly, 20 years later, it's not. Huh...

As someone who's had rather a lot of exposure to the eponymous "furry art style," I have to say that this is pretty much entirely true. The notion that "furries" are some kind of cooties that people catch from prolonged contact with anime is so absurd as to be hilarious. Wake up, people. Most "furries" are Americans, born and raised in America and drawing their inspiration from American fiction. Their art style and themes of choice reflect this, which you would know if you did, in fact, understand what you hate. In fact, the several companies who make their business out of furry comic books have modelled them after the American porn industry more than anything else, and have about as much to do with anime as Arnold Schwarzenegger's Commando has to do with Shakespearian theatre.

This is really what gets my goat (pun totally intended) about this irrational hatred of anthropomorphic characters that gets brought up even where no anthropomorphic characters were even mentioned. It's the kind of hatred that's based on precisely NOTHING AT ALL, as demonstrated by haters' complete inability to even identify what it is that they hate. Ugh!

Speaking of Trigun, Jesu Otaku made a very good Trigun review on ThatGuyWithTheGlasses.Com which I encourage everyone to see. I had not and have not seen the actual anime, or indeed read the manga, but I would still recommend the series based on her delivery.

Characters with unreasonably large breasts actually very rarely pop up outside of hentai, and when they do they're usually sporting gag boobs for the express purposes of physical comedy. I don't know where this belief that every woman in Anime has ginormous breasts comes from, but it does not reflect reality as I've seen it.

Off the top of my head, I keep thinking back to Lina Inverse from Slayers, though her NOT having big breasts was something of a running gag, and she did partner up with Naga in the movie, who actually did have gag boobs, used precisely as a gag. Moving on to other things, Ghost in the Shell's Major Motoko Kusanagi did not have huge breasts as far as I can remember, despite the fact that she had to strip naked for her invisibility to work. Battle Angel Alita's Gally didn't even have what could be defined as breasts, as her body didn't actually have skin over her metal superstructure aside from on her face. Beyond that, Paprika's titular character, as well as that scientist woman whose name I cannot remember (who were the only two women in the movie) appeared to be very average built, but then Paprika is a serious movie. Speaking of serious, Fulmetal Alchemist featured an entire host of female characters, and most of them wore military uniforms or otherwise frilly dresses which basically obscured their body shape.

Pretty much, the only time you'll see gag boobs in anime is when they're made a point of, such as the woman from the Moon in Basquash, but that brain-cavity-inducing anime has far deeper problems than "low gravity breasts." With hands embroidered on her shirt, no less.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

The crusade aspect is the one I was objecting to. Constructive criticism is, of course, necessary. Such as when there are mechanical difficulties involved.

For that matter, so are most Europeans and those Americans descended from them. Who've grown up with Aesop...at least I did.

Fred Perry is an awesome and cool guy, by the way.

Haven't read the manga, the anime is excellent though...got it while I was in Korea

I was definitely thinking Gally and Lina. Also, Yin, Akane, the girl from Escaflowne. Actually, small-chested or average build girls who are jealous of their larger peers are fairly frequent. Though one of my favorites is the repeated descriptions of Jubei-chan as having big breasts despite the fact that the art style makes them seem more average (for comic books and anime, meaning high Bs low Cs) rather than the gag boobs (Ds and sometimes Es).

It's not even about anime!(You were the 1st to mention it in the thread, by the by)

Or 'furries'.

I consider myself a creative enthusiast. I enjoy things that are varied, unique, stylized and explorative when it comes to visuals, graphics and art. Creativity should be encouraged but you take the position as villain that discourages it? Why?

You state a clear bias (I can already tell you think American Comics are the hearth of all things in the modern illustrated medium) and attempt to disprove your ignorance with more ignorance. This is idiocy.

You don't have to like a type of medium (manga, anime and comics are a *medium* not a genre! Oy!) but beyond that, what ground do you stand on to stifle creativity because of your bias and prejudice?

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

I put it about the same as the pointy ears on elves. Something to mark them as exotic without putting them into the category of alien.

So the only comments allowed out here are ringing endorsements? Better shut the forums down now, then.

Your problem here is not convincing me. Its convincing the developers that these things are mainstream fodder in the superhero genre. They make the decisions here, not me.