VEATs and HEATs not so epic?
And I didn't say Kheld's suck I just know most people dislike them for some reason. I know someone else did though. I like them both so far.
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As far as future epics, latest word we had was "nothing in the works right now." Prior concepts and their status? *points to sig* last word we have, go through EAT at Posi's in the sig.
I know you didn't. They USED to have various penalties when introduced (I3.) They USED to not have their inherent stay through form changes. Voids and Quantums USED to be a threat instead of "Hey, look, more XP for me!" People remember that, unfortunately. Now, the only issue they have, really, is slot crunch as a multiform - and that's offset by IOs and frankenslotting.
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"An army is a team. It lives, eats, sleeps, fights as a team. This individuality stuff is a bunch of BS." -General George Patton
-Lord Azazel
I think it all boils down to what makes you happy (what you find rewarding) in a game. Me - I get a sense of accomplishment from the journey, and don't really care if I ever get to 50. I like having lots of alt archetypes to dabble with, so I'm happy that I can play VEATs even with my only lvl 50 being a hero. I don't like teaming or raiding (after years of doing it in EQ), so I have never done a Hami or even a task force. I love the casualness of COX, which is perfect for my non-competitive/lazy/scattered style of gaming. If the devs introduced "Epitome Archetypes" of the kind suggested, I'd probably shrug and resign myself to the fact that I'd never get to play 'em. I fully acknowledge that I'm not a typical MMO kind of person, but I think COX is the perfect MMO for me.
Hey i'm cool with that. I don't really want to single anyone out, or limit anything. Im just throwing ideas out there and stuff. I just would like to see new things in general. I'm enjoying GR so far too so.
So what you're saying is you want an AT that normal players won't ever get access to because they usually don't get far enough to run hamidon raids or gather every single badge in existance so you and a select handful of people can run around feeling special?
No thanks. And they don't need to be super powerful. Epic means storyline driven, not HOLYOMGOVERPOWERED. Also, this paragraph right here: So yes, you did suggest an AT that the majority of players won't be able to play. |
What's really wrong with saying "here's an AT but it requires you to PLAY THE GAME"? Pfffft...you don't play the game, you don't get the reward, it's that simple.
Kinda like PvP IOs (well before anyways)...you didn't PvP you likely werent going to get the reward, even if by PvP you farmed it.
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I'm still trying to wrap my head around this one:
I think that we should have some real Epic godmode like archtypes. Not something so overpowered that it's unbalanced, but something that makes you feel more epic. |
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
So a softcapped VEAT with team buffs, decent aoe damage, mez protection , around 50% of resistance to most damage types, 6 pets and unique costume parts isn't epic enough?
I agree with some points about Kheldians and SoA's not feeling epic. I enjoy playing them however, and don't get hung up on that word.
I'm not really sold on the idea of introducing some "Ultimate Good/Evil" archetypes thast have devilish or angelic dark/light powers respectively.
Thats just forcing some other restrictive concept on the player.
The incarnate system will let you become a jacked up Dark/Dark Brute if you chose to play one, and everyone else will become a jacked up whateevr they are. The IO system already makes many characters pretty epic if they choose to invest lots of time in it. Incarnates will push that another step further.
The incarnate system will let you become a jacked up Dark/Dark Brute if you chose to play one, and everyone else will become a jacked up whateevr they are. The IO system already makes many characters pretty epic if they choose to invest lots of time in it. Incarnates will push that another step further.
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If there were an AT that did that, maybe that would be really epic-feeling.

I agree with some points about Kheldians and SoA's not feeling epic. I enjoy playing them however, and don't get hung up on that word.
I'm not really sold on the idea of introducing some "Ultimate Good/Evil" archetypes thast have devilish or angelic dark/light powers respectively. Thats just forcing some other restrictive concept on the player. The incarnate system will let you become a jacked up Dark/Dark Brute if you chose to play one, and everyone else will become a jacked up whateevr they are. The IO system already makes many characters pretty epic if they choose to invest lots of time in it. Incarnates will push that another step further. |
I laugh every time I see someone comment on how the Epic Archetypes don't feel "Epic" to them. Please, go look up the standard dictionary meaning of epic, rather that defaulting to the internet/mmo colloquialism of it.
epic - noun - 1. a long poem, typically one derived from ancient oral tradition, narrating the deeds and adventures of heroic or legendary figures or the history of a nation. 2. a long film, book, or other work portraying heroic deeds and adventures or covering an extended period of time.
"Epic" Archetypes are those that are fundamentally tied to the storyline of the game universe in question. Your Blaster or Mastermind (for example) could reasonably fit, story-wise, into a great many other settings. The HEATs and VEATs in CoH BELONG here, more than any of your other rather generic characters ever will. They are part of the CoH epic.
Where to find me after the end:
The Secret World - Arcadia - Shinzo
Rift - Faeblight - Bloodspeaker
LotRO - Gladden - Aranelion
STO - Holodeck - @Captain_Thiraas
Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.
As I said I enjoy playing Khelds and SoA's. At least you get what I mean about them not feeling epic. I'm not so much "hung up" on it as i'm just trying to suggest an idea. and the Ultimate Good/evil isn't any more restrictive then being an SoA or a Kheldian. It's less if anything, imo. But that's just it, my opinion.
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To some people, Ultimate Good looks like light-based or angelic borrowing from Christian mythology. To others it looks like a guy in a blue suit with red undies and a cape who fires red laser beams out of his eyes. To many people, Ultimate Good (or Evil) may look like the character they've invested their time and imagination in making.
What we have now is the ability to make our characters look how we want and have the powers we want (within limits) and any of them can be made epic through effort in game - levelling, IOs, accolades etc.
Wouldn't it kind of suck to have a pre-packaaged character who was more powerful than all of that?
Currently, any concept can achieve 100% power.* Thats better than any concept can get 90% power, but to get to 100% you have to be a purple tinted squid or carry a gun or have light/darkness powers or whatever restriction a single epic archetype would impose on us.
*Some more easily than other, I know. I've got a level 50 Grav Controller

For as awesome as the VEATs are, and how much easier they are to get into and play than the HEATs... the SoA 'Epic' is anything but epic. 'Do this pointless task, then go play regular villain content until I'm ready to have you do the pointless task again.' Someone really phoned that one in...
-This Space Intentionally Left Blank.-
Massive. Understatement.
For as awesome as the VEATs are, and how much easier they are to get into and play than the HEATs... the SoA 'Epic' is anything but epic. 'Do this pointless task, then go play regular villain content until I'm ready to have you do the pointless task again.' Someone really phoned that one in... |
The final one though....
I have to admit, facing off against the clark kent copout with my fortunata ranks among the best times in my cox experience. You think unstoppable is gonna save you huh?
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But neither that, nor the satisfaction of beating down Statesman could make up for the awful "story" behind the mission:
"Go kill Statesman"
"Why?"
"Cos"

I like the VEATS, find the HEATS to be not worth the bother, but whether or not they are "all that" am pissed that any n00b on a steamrolling team can have one in a day. I don't think that having to wait until 50 was unreasonable, just that most people misunderstand what HEATS/VEATS are all about. They're not meant to be "godmode" but that is why people are disappointed in them. IMO they are/were (whichever) meant to give the veteran player an opportunity to play an AT that would be flexible, allowing them to explore several different ability types and playstyles all in one character, letting them either concentrate on one or diversifying and trying to be more of a JOAT. Of course, one thing that many people tend to forget is the MON that accompanies that.
Incarnate is (will be) our new "Epic".
Team of veats....+4 manti, 45 minutes. Im thinking no that is not that good....oh crap Im trolling and you are too
Right now, Warshades, Crabs, Widows, and Forts are pretty frikken epic in the "tank-mage" way. So I would argue that epic=OMGBBQ and we have it!

The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
The term "Epic" is continuously being misused here.
The epic sense for VEATS and HEATS, are the same "Epic" meant to describe the lvl 40+ power pools. They are suppose to be powers that are outside of the normal AT's powerset. For VEATS and HEATS, its basically EPIC AT b/c they mix together ranged, mele, armors, pets, etc, and creates new AT that are similar to or a mixture of the other AT.
The story driven part is just extra, and is informing the player how these AT fit in the world etc.
Just because your character is hard set to Normal origin etc, you can make whatever backstory you want. Sure the VEATS sound AWOL but what kinda villain are you that follows orders, why wouldn't you as a villain try to be at the top or best.
The reason people don't like khelds are because they are much harder to build and use than VEATS. Veats don't have quantom voids that just kill you in two shots with all your buffs on, or make shadow cyrstals in the missions that wipe out teams. Personally I'm glad they didn't do that with VEATs.
You're right, my SoA is just a normal person. No superpowers, no heat vision, no conjuring demons from the nether to do his bidding. He's got his rifle. He's got his grenades. He's got his training. And he still regularly goes up against superpowered PPDs, signature heroes, the most badass, overpowered, pinnacle of perfection beings out there.
And he wins. That's what makes him so special and hardcore. Thanks for asking ![]() |
Right I thought it was something like that. And I'm surprised but not that you can't play a Nictus villainside? Going Rogue FTW though.
And I didn't say Kheld's suck I just know most people dislike them for some reason. I know someone else did though. I like them both so far.
So if this is the case with Epics then I think we've answered my question, mostly.
Epics are mainly for story arcs etc. Right.
Any hopes of new ones in the future? Would anyone like to see any particular kind of "Epic" AT and one to follow? I know one friend of mine wishes we could have a Coralax or something. Not sure how that would work exactly but *shrug*.
Anyone else got some ideas? I still like mine though :P maybe toned down for a magic origin epic though