Masterminds on PUGs, and Other Comedies


BenRGamer

 

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Originally Posted by Klaatu View Post
I hate PUG mayhem missions. So many red-side players have this blue-side mentality with bank missions where they do as you say - fly right to the bank then get overwhelmed with LB inside the door for a fast trip to jail. From there it's a typical comedy of errors that often results in mission failure. That's why I almost always do mayhems solo, and quit teams that, after a few paper missions, go for a mayhem.
Some redside teams rush the bank intentionally, just to see how many Longbow they can AoE to death in the resultant chaos at the door.

I love mayhem missions. Running battles against armies of cops; ambushes coming at you from all sides (good practice for GR); widespread property destruction - that's what I call being a supervillain.

Funny thing is I usually hate timed missions in games - it always strikes me as an artificial way of ramping up the difficulty, but I make an exception for mayhems and always try to do the sides. It's even more fun when the Longbow follow you into one of the side missions.

One thing I do wonder, now that all ATs are available on both sides... which playstyle will prove dominant in the long run? Blueside's "Tank must go first and we need a healer", or Redside's "Everyone is DPS. Last one to grab some aggro isn't trying hard enough" ?


 

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Originally Posted by NightshadeLegree View Post
I would pay good infamy to watch a group of blueside only players running their first Mayhem Mission.

That was me! Very fun indeed


 

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Originally Posted by Jibikao View Post
Do those who play Hero 90% of the time think Longbow is a harder group to deal with at high level?

I am very used to LBs and I've seen plenty Brutes who jump in and die so quickly (those Sonic Grenade) or my squishy toons got Bean Bagged for like 30s. lol
I know from the RWZ arc that they can be a royal PITA, depending on what AT I'm on. No more or less than Malta, or Knives, off the top of my head. I just adjust my tactics accordingly. SOMETIMES that means lowering my difficulty, but I only have one half-billion inf toon, some are still just on SOs.


 

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Originally Posted by Emberly View Post
The great thing about villains and their players is that no matter what it's very easy My teams start at +1/x8 and I raise the diff until people start dying a bit. If we get a death per mission at +2/x8, that's good enough for me. If we are a bunch of MMs, brutes and corruptors and we jack it up to +4/x8, I bemoan the lack of higher difficulty and accept my sad lot in life. It seems that redside, death means you bit off a little more than you could chew and you learn from it. Blueside, death means someone wasn't following the tank and it's time to piss and moan about it

One of the best things about villain teams is that players often tend to play as a soloist with some (unreliable) support from teammates. Keeps things interesting, speeds up XP gain, and maintains some social interaction. If a character dies often, s/he learns to stick close to someone else, and they quickly become a stronger fighting element. Compared to the all-too-common srs bsns blueside teams, it's a lot of fun. Nobody really wants to follow the tank
To be fair, the redside ATs (in general) seem better at soloing than blueside ATs (thinking particularly of the traditional blueside "squishies" - there is a reason they got that name). So this is in product of what the classes are capable of (especially at SO level slotting), and not necessarily player skill. A blaster might run off and solo ONE spawn, but it's pretty rare to see him/her do it non-stop (I don't think I ever have). There's also the blueside vs. redside player population discrepancy: way more players blueside = way more PuGs blueside = way more playing to the lowest common denominator: stay safe, follow the tank. 99% of PuGs will be successful blueside with that tactic (made up percentage ). I don't think I know of another tactic that is nearly so consistently successful (blueside). Granted, who/what tanks isn't always a tanker - even blueside - but the tactic remains. "Let the person capable of handling the spawn's alpha engage first."

I do look forward to discovering new tactics with my red/gold/blue side teammates though.


 

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I don't know. It's been my experience that Red and Blue teams wipe in equally preposterous situations. There are plenty of good teams on both sides too.

At the same time I also know I don't currently have ANY Dominator, Controller, Defender, or Corruptor who can leap headfirst into a x8+4 spawn and expect to survive longer than a few seconds without teammate support. In fact it's typical for me to die in about 2 hits from a boss on the hardest difficulties. I mean, maybe I could do Council for twenty seconds if they didn't mezz me. But Longbow? Carnies? Malta? Knives of Artemis? It just wouldn't happen without massive IOing, and even then probably still wouldn't happen. Soloing +4 Carnies on an Ice/Thermal Controller? Yeah... no.


 

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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex View Post
I don't know. It's been my experience that Red and Blue teams wipe in equally preposterous situations. There are plenty of good teams on both sides too.

At the same time I also know I don't currently have ANY Dominator, Controller, Defender, or Corruptor who can leap headfirst into a x8+4 spawn and expect to survive longer than a few seconds without teammate support. In fact it's typical for me to die in about 2 hits from a boss on the hardest difficulties. I mean, maybe I could do Council for twenty seconds if they didn't mezz me. But Longbow? Carnies? Malta? Knives of Artemis? It just wouldn't happen without massive IOing, and even then probably still wouldn't happen. Soloing +4 Carnies on an Ice/Thermal Controller? Yeah... no.
Other than /elec elec/ I don't know anyone foolish enough to dive into +4 carnies.


 

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My only rough spot with blueside MMs so far has been cave missions. It can be a bit of a chore to try to wade through all those pets to get anything done and it's all too easy to find yourself staring at the backside of a giant demon for most of the mission.

Strategically, the math always favors a tightly packed group of opponents subjected to a deluge of AOEs. Whatever it takes to make that happen will be more efficient than a mad scramble. Players can play however they want to, redside or blueside, but that won't change the math. Teams without AOE damage just don't have the option of efficiency, so they can go with the scramble without much loss, if any.

What's probably most important is that the team has a clear idea of how things are going to happen. If Blasters are going to be left to their own aggro because "Brutes aren't Tankers!", then they need to know that. If Dominators are supposed to wait for a herd or corner pull before firing off their AOE hold, then they need to know that. Most will figure it out after the first couple fights, but you might need to send a tell if things are getting out of hand.


 

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Originally Posted by NightshadeLegree View Post
I would pay good infamy to watch a group of blueside only players running their first Mayhem Mission.

Do blue side only players even exist? I could not imagine playing only the half part of a game I love so much.


Originally Posted by Megajoule
We're being invaded. Again. This time, instead of aliens, zombies, or eyeballs with teeth, it's the marching band.

 

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Originally Posted by Razia View Post
Do blue side only players even exist? I could not imagine playing only the half part of a game I love so much.
They do indeed. I teamed with friends from my SG in the Isles (they only play the Blue-side ATs) on my Thugs/Poison MM (built as a Tankermind). I told the Tanker repeatedly that I didn't need him to tank so I just went ahead and steam-rolled the rest of the mission by myself as he and the Blaster faceplanted against the Wailers.

Might I add that the Tanker was going to the Isles to "show them how it's done".


 

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Originally Posted by NightshadeLegree View Post
Some redside teams rush the bank intentionally, just to see how many Longbow they can AoE to death in the resultant chaos at the door.
My preferred approach is clear to the bank, everyone in and deal with whatever ambushes and then someone goes outside with Fly and buzzes around to annoy all the Flying "death" squads and comes back in.

Then lots of flying bags of XP show up and die horribly


 

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Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA View Post
My preferred approach is clear to the bank, everyone in and deal with whatever ambushes and then someone goes outside with Fly and buzzes around to annoy all the Flying "death" squads and comes back in.

Then lots of flying bags of XP show up and die horribly
Yeah, getting the Eagle Death Squad is awesome if you're prepared for it. Doubly so if you have a Traps anything on the team.


Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.

 

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Originally Posted by Deacon_NA View Post
This does make me want to check out some heroside pugs to see "I'm invincible" tanks meet up with stacked disruption fields and a liquefy, among all the other goodies Longbow offers.
I have always maintained that Longbow are the baddest bunch of enemies in the game, causing Red-side to be harder as you get your Longbow love starting in Mercy.

I'm also curious to see how the Heroes are handling the increased debuffs and aoe-mania that is Longbow.

Longbow is just one of the reasons that the LRSF is harder btw.

Noght


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Originally Posted by Noght View Post
I have always maintained that Longbow are the baddest bunch of enemies in the game, causing Red-side to be harder as you get your Longbow love starting in Mercy.

I'm also curious to see how the Heroes are handling the increased debuffs and aoe-mania that is Longbow.
I'd go the other way, myself. On everything but my melee characters, I consider Longbow to be little more than slightly beefed-up Hellions with defense debuffs, apart from the bosses. (Especially pre-40.) Debuffs and controls can pretty easily neuter them compared to a lot of groups--they tend to spawn in nice little clumps, they don't like to scatter, they don't have much in the way of exotic damage, and they don't have much mez or debuff resistance. I think I have a single character where I'd choose to fight Arachnos over Longbow, given the choice.


Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.

 

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Originally Posted by Noght View Post
I have always maintained that Longbow are the baddest bunch of enemies in the game, causing Red-side to be harder as you get your Longbow love starting in Mercy.

I'm also curious to see how the Heroes are handling the increased debuffs and aoe-mania that is Longbow.
I agree with you here, but I'll take it a step further. Before GR, I don't think LB were ever prevalent enemies heroes had to fight against, if they fought against them at all.

Villains had to go up against LB and Arachnos from the get go. If you chose Burke over Kalinda, Arachnos is in your very first mission.

Honestly it's a toss-up for me, which group is harder. My crab spider doesn't really flinch when he sees a pack of 0/8 LB with a bunch of Nullifiers. However, I'm 110% alert when facing my own (Arachnos). I hate Tarantula Mistresses and their massive -def debuff that always always hits me Once I have that psy debuff on, I can forget about my near capped defenses.


 

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To be fair, level 1-10 Longbow and Arachnos are more-or-less Hellions with different skins. I mean, the minions are even weaker, lacking the varied melee weapons your average thug packs. Maybe the lieuts are a mite tougher. Arachnos start getting tough in the teens with end-draining Mu and hold resistance, whereas Longbow only really take off at higher levels with Spec-Ops and sonic grenades.


 

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Originally Posted by Dr_Ohm View Post
To be fair, level 1-10 Longbow and Arachnos are more-or-less Hellions with different skins. I mean, the minions are even weaker, lacking the varied melee weapons your average thug packs. Maybe the lieuts are a mite tougher. Arachnos start getting tough in the teens with end-draining Mu and hold resistance, whereas Longbow only really take off at higher levels with Spec-Ops and sonic grenades.
Granted, but my point was that villains are exposed to both them for day 1. Heroes are only exposed to Arachnos.


 

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Originally Posted by Red Pirate Boggarts View Post
Granted, but my point was that villains are exposed to both them for day 1. Heroes are only exposed to Arachnos.
Yeah, and even then, they can largely avoid Arachnos if they don't do Faultline and just don't pick them on newspaper missions.


Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.

 

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Originally Posted by Snowzone View Post
They do indeed. I teamed with friends from my SG in the Isles (they only play the Blue-side ATs) on my Thugs/Poison MM (built as a Tankermind). I told the Tanker repeatedly that I didn't need him to tank so I just went ahead and steam-rolled the rest of the mission by myself as he and the Blaster faceplanted against the Wailers.

Might I add that the Tanker was going to the Isles to "show them how it's done".
Ick Wailers, another of the lovely treasures Villains get to enjoy...


 

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So has anyone here seen a hero die because they followed the Stalker to the mobs?


 

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Originally Posted by DMystic View Post
So has anyone here seen a hero die because they followed the Stalker to the mobs?
I've had heroes follow my cloaked bane while I was looking ahead of the group in some door missions. I'm talking about non cloaked heroes, and not the usual stealth + SS guys that usually like to scout like my bane.


 

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Originally Posted by Red Pirate Boggarts View Post
I've had heroes follow my cloaked bane while I was looking ahead of the group in some door missions. I'm talking about non cloaked heroes, and not the usual stealth + SS guys that usually like to scout like my bane.
That would cover it then.
Thank you for the smile.


 

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Originally Posted by DMystic View Post
So has anyone here seen a hero die because they followed the Stalker to the mobs?
Stealth + SS is extremely common blueside. I can't recall a team I've been on in the past several months that didn't have someone using Stealth & SS. So it's kind of surprising that anyone would get caught out following a Stalker at this point.


 

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Originally Posted by Boerewors View Post
Ahahahahh! Stop Stop! It hurts so much to laugh like this!

I had a heated discussion with a tank in a Praetorian team about herding. I kept insisting that the days of herding are over, all hail the redside steamroller! The tank kept disagreeing with me, stating that she herds to keep squishies like me alive. I kept trying to tell her that I am not a squishy, I am a DOMINATOR! And proceeded to hit my "I win" button and locked down an entire spawn. ;-P

I am just so loving the whole change of perspective. I never played blueside because I was just so sick of the herd, nuke, next, yawn game play. Steamroller chaos is the best thing since canned Enriche! Bring it on!
I was a blueside only player for a very long time, and in my experience, a good Tank herds primarily when a mob is spread over a large area (and they don't switch to melee) and after they are saturated enough, they get nuked. For a team to just breeze in on such a mob, hero or villain, it just slow things down.

However, like you, I get cold feet when a team becomes TOO dependent on the Tank to keep the team alive and moving. Sadly that is the case when a team lacks support, or one or more of players doesn't know how to play their AT. The tank does make things safer, but a good hero AT only team won't have to worry about the alpha and can steamroll just as well as villain AT teams.


 

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Originally Posted by streetlight View Post
Stealth + SS is extremely common blueside. I can't recall a team I've been on in the past several months that didn't have someone using Stealth & SS. So it's kind of surprising that anyone would get caught out following a Stalker at this point.
Plus there is illiusion controllers, so I'd be surprised at people being caught out by stalker stealth.


I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.

Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.

So sad to be ending ):

 

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Originally Posted by Zombie Man View Post
As a well played MM heroside, I know exactly which role I fill: All of them.
Amen!

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Originally Posted by DogTags View Post
I mentioned Heel and Goto are your most important tools. The first thing I see in response "I never use those" /floored
Heel is passive/follow, right? Yeah, I never use that. I occasionally use goto, and if my pets are way off chasing something I spam my defensive/follow bind until they lose the aggro (since pets won't attack for a couple seconds after being given a stance command). For the most part, though, my MM play is basically me in the thick of it with my pets serving as my rearguard and meatshield (hooray, bodyguard mode!).

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Originally Posted by Chaos Creator View Post
Other than /elec elec/ I don't know anyone foolish enough to dive into +4 carnies.
*waves hand*

Heck, I'll dive into the Snake Temple at full of lv54 Cobra bosses (+4/x8) if you don't go in first.

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Originally Posted by Razia View Post
Do blue side only players even exist? I could not imagine playing only the half part of a game I love so much.
Golden Girl isn't just a blueside only player, she's a single character player. O.o


http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt