Quote:
No sir you sound like you're getting it perfectly.|
Originally Posted by Golden_Avariel
My usual strategy is to try and keep Dull Pain running all the time because the regen is so good with it. Recharge IO's together with AM from my controller friend keeps it up most of the time. When he isn't around I use it like you are describing - first line of healing when I get to 50%.
I use Moment of Glory to absorb the alpha and it works very well for that. Against the EB last night I triggered it before popping the lucks and after all of them expired but of course it doesn't last long enough to really help much against a persistent threat like that. Who knows when that Big Bash of Instant Death is coming until you see the animation and then it is too late. Timing Reconstruction seems like an art form. Sometimes I'll hit it too soon and then wish I had it a 15 seconds later. Sometimes I wait too long and die while activating it. Mostly I have it down about right although I wish it recharged faster straight out of the box. I only use Instant Healing when I'm fighting a very big group (like party members are starting to drop kind of big) or for the named bosses. In those cases I'll trigger it just after the first Reconstruction well after the fight as started. Does all that sound about right or am I still Grasshopper with much to learn? I haven't taken Tough/Weave on any of my scrappers and don't really want to start now. It isn't like I'm trying to do +4/x8 or anything. I just want to enjoy the set combo (which usually means taking most or all of both power sets) and play the game. |
Definitely look to see where you can fit in some +def with IO's (as it's pretty easy to get 5x of the recharge through all your powers), and add in weave.
What primary are you? That's a big factor for the awesomeness of regen for sure.
Dark/katana/Broadsword generally are the most survivable for a regen.
I rolled a bs my self.. I <3 capped melee defense +65 hp/s with dp active..
Certainly Regen is going to be harder on other Primarys, but still viable (but I can agree on it being a bit outshinned by the other defenses when not paired with the above 3).
50s:
White Valkyrie - BS/Regen Scrap
Fear of Silence - Ninja/Dark MM
Corporate Zombie - Necro/Poison MM
Ardent Cataclysm - Stone/Fire Tank
Angelic Heart - Peacebringer
Maelstrom - Elec/Elec Brute
Novastar - Energy/Fire Blaster
Martial Arts
I know she doesn't EVEN compare to my Dual Blades/SR (who called the same Shadowhunter a whimp) but she's still fun and now my highest level character that isn't 50.
I managed to cheaply add 10% defense to the SR scrapper and I'm sure I could do it for this one but I don't know about fitting Weave in. I'm not sure what 3 powers I would want to drop for the extra... what? 5%? Ah well, I don't usually have trouble getting a team for her when I want it (she's pretty popular among the coalition at large for some reason) so I guess I shouldn't worry too much about it.
This thread again? The last one hasn't had time to properly decompose. 
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
Yeah I hear you. Regen is a fun secondary, but it's definitely a secondary that doesn't mesh with as many primarys as nicely.. That's the big issue.|
Originally Posted by Golden_Avariel
Martial Arts
I know she doesn't EVEN compare to my Dual Blades/SR (who called the same Shadowhunter a whimp) but she's still fun and now my highest level character that isn't 50. I managed to cheaply add 10% defense to the SR scrapper and I'm sure I could do it for this one but I don't know about fitting Weave in. I'm not sure what 3 powers I would want to drop for the extra... what? 5%? Ah well, I don't usually have trouble getting a team for her when I want it (she's pretty popular among the coalition at large for some reason) so I guess I shouldn't worry too much about it. |
I don't have a ton of experience with MA (especially since the patch), but my MA seems to get his rear handed to him fairly frequently with /wp. So perhaps MA doesn't mesh with the +regen type sets as well?
50s:
White Valkyrie - BS/Regen Scrap
Fear of Silence - Ninja/Dark MM
Corporate Zombie - Necro/Poison MM
Ardent Cataclysm - Stone/Fire Tank
Angelic Heart - Peacebringer
Maelstrom - Elec/Elec Brute
Novastar - Energy/Fire Blaster
Quote:
You need to accept that that's never going to happen.|
Originally Posted by LordPig
Bring back toggle IH. Even that never made up for the lack of a regen debuff resistance.
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With old IH and other tools today, I could build a character with over 3000% regen, full-time. At it's very best, you can hit that rough equivalent on a softcapped SR who has 300% Regen. (300% Regen into 1/10 as much average damage is like having 3000% Regen.) But then SR has no Dull Pain equivalent. On top of that you get to layer +Def on the Regen, while the SR is capped out on that. So while the SR caps out around 3000% (3500% ish with Tough, a bit more with scaling resists), the Regen can cap out closer to 7000% (x1.36 for Dull Pain's pseudo DR and another factor of x1.67 for 20% melee/ranged defense).
If you consider that soft-capped defense is almost certainly something the Devs seem to tolerate but probably aren't fond of from a balance perspective, it seems very unlikely that they'd allow something that much more survivable back into the mix.
No one can argue with the notion of disliking having to manage the clicks. On the flip side, I enjoy playing Regen more because of the click management. (I'll note that I complained about it back when it changed.) When I survive something really rough on a Regen nowadays, I get to feel it's because I managed my powers well, in addition to things like having a good build. As opposed to, say, SR, where I mostly get to feel like my build was good and the RNG was good to me. What I do tactically has a lot less bearing on how a passive based set survives. For WP, positioning comes into play, but not a lot else.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
Regen pairs well with lots of additional mitigation, or fast AoE killing. I dive into large spawns and use Regen's clicks to recover from or mitigation the alpha strike. Then I have to defeat my foes before I either run out of additional clicks to use, or I have to slow down their net DPS enough that I can get my clicks back before I die.|
Originally Posted by JusticeisServed
I don't have a ton of experience with MA (especially since the patch), but my MA seems to get his rear handed to him fairly frequently with /wp. So perhaps MA doesn't mesh with the +regen type sets as well?
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Sword sets provide excellent mitigation. Dark Melee can as well, though not so effectively against large spawns (but Siphon Life is really powerful). Fire Melee, Electric Melee, Spines, Claws and, to a lesser extent, Dual Blades all have good AoE kill potential. You can use these sets to really hose the minions in a large spawn if you can cluster them for your cones and PBAoEs.
Martial Arts is heavily single-target focused. It provides some decent but not amazing mitigation. In a crowd, it's mitigation is dependent on Dragon's Tail to keep stuff off its feet, and its stuns to disable singular annoying foes. The stun mitigation used to be basically non-existent in most builds before this issue. Now I consider it quite high, but it's still limited to a couple of opponents at a time.
So that's probably why you feel more squishy pairing Regen with MA.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
Regen is great if you want to have fun with level 4-20 content. Once you approach level 50, its performance falls behind Willpower in my opinion. |
Originally Posted by Deganji
Hey all, first off this isn't a whine, just an honest question to those that are more knowledgeable than me.
I'm wanting to make a new scrapper and decided on Regen since I already have a Willpower. |
It has essentially no layering, like Willpower does, only a small bit of resistance to add to its regeneration. It is entirely dependent on the timing of click powers; and when you're out of clicks you're out of tricks.
Regeneration is distracting; rather than setting priorities about which enemy to go after next, you're monitoring your health, wondering if any of your click powers are close enough to recharge to take on another. Given the many spawns that can two or three shot you, and the increasing tendency to rebalance attack sets around animation lag, you may not have the manual dexterity, the ability to wait out the animation, or the latency to react before you're dead.
If you want a different experience from WP that's friendly to a variety of concepts, I'd consider Super Reflexes. Here you will NOT enjoy the 4-20 levelling experience, and even after Stamina it's going to be tough sledding. I do not recommend trying to level a /SR scrapper in Praetoria, either. But once you conquer your endurance issues, you will be close to godly, even at SO levels.
If I made another Regen scrapper, I'd go with Broadsword or Katana, sets that can add some layering that Regen lacks, or Dark Melee, that gives you another self heal on a short timer.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
Quote:
Just curious, what do you have against tough and weave? In all cases those powers are better when stacked with existing defenses than when given to someone with no defenses. Also 4 slots into tough gives you the reasonably nice bonuses from Reactive Armor. With weave you have Serendipity if you're broke, and the juicy 5% recharge from Red Fortune for a bit more money, and the very nice luck of the gambler if you have a lot of money.|
Originally Posted by Golden_Avariel
Does all that sound about right or am I still Grasshopper with much to learn? I haven't taken Tough/Weave on any of my scrappers and don't really want to start now. It isn't like I'm trying to do +4/x8 or anything. I just want to enjoy the set combo (which usually means taking most or all of both power sets) and play the game.
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You get 24 powers, even if you take all from both sets you still have 6 left over, that's enough for two pools, or one pool and one epic. With regen and willpower you don't need fitness. These days with temp powers and ninja run you don't need a travel power (90% of my characters buy/craft jet packs). So you really have the room for fighting, and it will benefit nearly all scrappers greatly.
So, just curious why you would specifically avoid it?
Also, it is not needed. My BS/Regen made it to 50 and solo'd all the praetorians (as EBs not AVs) with a totally messed up build, using fitness, leadership, and flight pools with several very important powers from both bs and regen lacking. Also notice that I didn't mention speed. That's right my build was so gimp that I even forgot haste on the two sets that most benefit from it.
But I have taken fighting on a respec, and it is definitely more fun now that I have that extra defense and resistance both. Previously there were some specific enemies that were very common who just ravaged me. Freak Tanks, for instance, have enormous lethal resistance (and as I mentioned I use a broadsword) and deal a lot of smashing or lethal damage. Adding toughness made all the difference in being able to outlast them. And lets face it, there are a LOT of freaks out there =). It also drastically changed my survival rates in Cimerora. Nearly all gunners (Malta, Knives, Council, Nemesis, even the thorn crossbowmen and cim spears) do lethal damage. Toughness applies very often.
So it is absolutely not needed, but I would be hard pressed to recommend any other pools over fighting. It's a shame you gotta waste a slot on boxing, but if you have 4 slots dropping in a kinetic combat is like making lemonaid (or smashing haymaker if you don't have a lot of money).
I know that your 6 non-primary powers are precious, what are you using them for? Maybe we can help you find a way to fit fighting in that still leaves you what you want out of those 6 choices?
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
Quote:
I already have a DM/SR stalker, so that's a no go. I don't like playing the same powerset twice. You are right , leveling it was a little bit of a pain, but the payoff is wonderful once slotted up with sets. Such a fun character to play.|
Originally Posted by Heraclea
If you want a different experience from WP that's friendly to a variety of concepts, I'd consider Super Reflexes. Here you will NOT enjoy the 4-20 levelling experience, and even after Stamina it's going to be tough sledding. I do not recommend trying to level a /SR scrapper in Praetoria, either. But once you conquer your endurance issues, you will be close to godly, even at SO levels. |
I'm thinking Regen will be nice for a single target scrapper that takes on a couple of higher level mobs, unlike the willpower which can jump into full spawns. This will be mostly a teaming character anyway, I prefer not to solo if I can't help it. I'm thinking KM/Regen, to try the new set.
Sorry if I brought up a subject that's beating a dead horse, I did look through the threads, but can never find anything with search. I'm sorry.
GearTech 50 AR/Dev Blaster
FireFusion 50 Fire/Rad Controller
Spike Urchin 50 Spines/WP Scrapper
Sacrile 50 Earth/Fire Dominator
Necrosis Siren 50 DM/SR Stalker
Quote:
I think single target sets pair better with avoidance and mitigation sets. Once you can ignore mobs you can go thru targets one by one at your leisure. With a solid SR or Invul build for instance only bosses and up really matter; minions and lt's are mostly ignorable.|
Originally Posted by JusticeisServed
Yeah I hear you. Regen is a fun secondary, but it's definitely a secondary that doesn't mesh with as many primarys as nicely.. That's the big issue.
I don't have a ton of experience with MA (especially since the patch), but my MA seems to get his rear handed to him fairly frequently with /wp. So perhaps MA doesn't mesh with the +regen type sets as well? |
If you are trying to soak damage with a heal based set you are always going to take most of the damage up front and be in a race to take out incoming damage dealers faster than they can whittle down your hit points. Your best bet is an alpha strike that can eliminate damage dealers faster, which AoE sets excel at.
WP compensates for this with RttC; the more foes the more you soak (ie the boosted HP per second equates to damage-wipe; if you heal 75 hp and take 75 hp its like it didn't happen -- unless it happened to be your last 75 hp of course). Regen scales upward, not outward so it does better soaking larger single increments of damage from a hard target than WP.
But...looking at the usage, Claws/Regen is a popular combo (more because of a certain published comics character than anything substantive in my opinion), so if it works there it should work for MA. On the other hand Claws has lower up front numbers but better DPS and DME than MA across the board. For its part, MA has lots of secondary effects while only slash (def debuff) in Claws and a couple of knockbacks has secondary effects. So that might play a part - you will be inconveniencing targets with MA but taking targets down faster w/ Claws and thus preventing them from inflicting hp harm upon you.
Quote:
See, that doesn't really match up with my experience. Yes, you have to use your clicks well, but that's not really any different from deciding what attacks to use. Plus, it's not that hard to get a decent amount of defense or to even just grab Tough and be a lot more survivable. I had a short range in the mid-20s where I was having issues with mobs defeating me before I could pop a heal in time, but that disappeared once I grabbed Tough and IH. And now, I can usually just have Weave running (I'm at about 20% def to all positions) and ignore Tough, unless I'm facing something rough or really up my difficulty. |
Originally Posted by Heraclea
Regeneration is distracting; rather than setting priorities about which enemy to go after next, you're monitoring your health, wondering if any of your click powers are close enough to recharge to take on another. Given the many spawns that can two or three shot you, and the increasing tendency to rebalance attack sets around animation lag, you may not have the manual dexterity, the ability to wait out the animation, or the latency to react before you're dead.
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I'm not running +2/x8, mind, but he's not close to +0/x0, either.
I suppose someone could argue that they don't want to have to take the fighting pool, but I think WP is a bit too squishy for my tastes without it as well. It does not like alphas, either.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
Quote:
I found that this is not my experience at all.|
Originally Posted by KillerShrike
I think single target sets pair better with avoidance and mitigation sets. Once you can ignore mobs you can go thru targets one by one at your leisure. With a solid SR or Invul build for instance only bosses and up really matter; minions and lt's are mostly ignorable.
If you are trying to soak damage with a heal based set you are always going to take most of the damage up front and be in a race to take out incoming damage dealers faster than they can whittle down your hit points. Your best bet is an alpha strike that can eliminate damage dealers faster, which AoE sets excel at. WP compensates for this with RttC; the more foes the more you soak (ie the boosted HP per second equates to damage-wipe; if you heal 75 hp and take 75 hp its like it didn't happen -- unless it happened to be your last 75 hp of course). Regen scales upward, not outward so it does better soaking larger single increments of damage from a hard target than WP. |
My /regen has literally stood in the middle of a pack of I think 8, 9 or 10 crey tanks while I went and made a cup of tea. I came back many minutes later and killed them all. On the other hand, one Freak Tank boss can drop me in two or three hits unless I use my clickies. The Crey Power Tanks can too if I'm not careful, but not as reliably as the freaks.
Against nemesis it is very mixed, the dot damage that dragoons apply is very easy to ignore as it comes in many ticks of 4. The jaegers do big hits in melee, and their dots are a few ticks of 10 - 14. So just a few Jaeggers can drop me, but I can ignore up to about 12 dragoons.
I only have 18% S/L defense, but I do sit on 114 hp/sec with IH, 46 hp/sec base, and 59 hp/sec with dull pain up.
So I often ignore minions and only focus on the hard targets.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
Quote:
I don't really have anything against them and I have it on my Brute. If I could get either or both without having to get Boxing/Kick I'd get them a lot more often. |
Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
Just curious, what do you have against tough and weave?
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Also, I like to take all or most of both sets if I've never taken them before (both MA & Regen are brand new to me). So that's like 17-18 powers I'd like to take or 15 at a minimum. I'd kind of like to have Hasten too so between all that, fitness (no lectures please), and flight (for Air Superiority - love that mitigation) I'm up to 21 powers with 3 left which could be fighting if I didn't want the Fire Mastery for concept purposes.
So I can drop the concept and add them at 41, 44, and 47. Or stick with my concept and accept that I'll be a little squishier. *shrugs*
That reminds me, I need to respec her soon to get Cobra Strike over Thunder Kick. I suppose at the same time I could drop Revive and Char (another good damage mitigation, especially when paired with the controller to lock down a boss quickly) to get Boxing (bleh I won't even bother putting it in the tray) and Tough with weave coming at 47... but I doubt I will.
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I can grok that, but bear in mind that it's just not compatible with the notion of tweaking out a Regen for max performance. I don't think you ever said it was, so please know I'm not arguing with you. I'm just trying to point out to all reading that there's sort of two divergent goals going on in discussion here - skipping the sorta "meh" powers to make room for stuff that helps you live longer, and doing things like taking powers to learn first hand which ones are "meh".
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Originally Posted by Golden_Avariel
Also, I like to take all or most of both sets if I've never taken them before (both MA & Regen are brand new to me).
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
I can grok that, but bear in mind that it's just not compatible with the notion of tweaking out a Regen for max performance. I don't think you ever said it was, so please know I'm not arguing with you. I'm just trying to point out to all reading that there's sort of two divergent goals going on in discussion here - skipping the sorta "meh" powers to make room for stuff that helps you live longer, and doing things like taking powers to learn first hand which ones are "meh".
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Yeah sure, I can see that. I'm just trying to understand the ins and outs of the set and what I can do to get the most out of her despite the limitations I've put on her. My thoughts on global recharge being a great start is confirmed and I learned that I'm using the set similar to how others play it so on that level, this thread is pure win for me.
And if I want a future uber-Jiao after she's 50 I think I can see how to do that now, probably using the second build to experiment until I get something I like.
Quote:
"unless I use my clickies" being the key thing there. |
Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
I found that this is not my experience at all.
My /regen has literally stood in the middle of a pack of I think 8, 9 or 10 crey tanks while I went and made a cup of tea. I came back many minutes later and killed them all. On the other hand, one Freak Tank boss can drop me in two or three hits unless I use my clickies. The Crey Power Tanks can too if I'm not careful, but not as reliably as the freaks. Against nemesis it is very mixed, the dot damage that dragoons apply is very easy to ignore as it comes in many ticks of 4. The jaegers do big hits in melee, and their dots are a few ticks of 10 - 14. So just a few Jaeggers can drop me, but I can ignore up to about 12 dragoons. I only have 18% S/L defense, but I do sit on 114 hp/sec with IH, 46 hp/sec base, and 59 hp/sec with dull pain up. So I often ignore minions and only focus on the hard targets. |
I'm saying that the nature of Regen is that you have tools to scale upwards to offset harder hitting opponents (i.e. your clickies), while WP auto-scales outwards to offset weaker hitting opponents as its +regen scales to the number of foes in RttC's aura - but it has no way to scale upwards for opponents that hit harder than usual.
Put a different way, the number of hp you regain per second equates to the amount of incoming damage you effectively ignore per second unless it takes you below 0. Regen has a baseline but provides tools to actively spike the number when necessary. WP automatically load-balances itself with RttC but has no ability to actively spike itself. So, vs minions / weaker hitting opponents against which the auto-escalation of WP covers the additional incoming damage WP just hums along; for Regen anything over capacity requires the player to push a button to react to it...but it gives you those buttons so that you can click them pretty reliably. Thus WP is more reliable and Regen more erratic, but Regen's peak is higher than WP's peak.
IMO, YMMV, etc
Quote:
I have to disagree with some of the stuff people with Will power has pulled off I say that the peaks are closer than you think
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Originally Posted by KillerShrike
"unless I use my clickies" being the key thing there.
I'm saying that the nature of Regen is that you have tools to scale upwards to offset harder hitting opponents (i.e. your clickies), while WP auto-scales outwards to offset weaker hitting opponents as its +regen scales to the number of foes in RttC's aura - but it has no way to scale upwards for opponents that hit harder than usual. Put a different way, the number of hp you regain per second equates to the amount of incoming damage you effectively ignore per second unless it takes you below 0. Regen has a baseline but provides tools to actively spike the number when necessary. WP automatically load-balances itself with RttC but has no ability to actively spike itself. So, vs minions / weaker hitting opponents against which the auto-escalation of WP covers the additional incoming damage WP just hums along; for Regen anything over capacity requires the player to push a button to react to it...but it gives you those buttons so that you can click them pretty reliably. Thus WP is more reliable and Regen more erratic, but Regen's peak is higher than WP's peak. IMO, YMMV, etc |
Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
Regen is still a great set to use for most of the normal content around here. And it stacks up there with Willpower as well. It takes more skill to use most effectively, but the payoff is usually higher survivability. And I say usually...
Once we start going into situations beyond "standard," then you start to see some big differences in particular situations. Debuffs will kill a Regen harder and faster than they would kill a Willpower. -Recharge won't instantly kill a Regen, but it does put a "doom" meter about its head as your clicks get slowly further away than you expected. -Regen in itself won't instantly kill a regen, but it could drop a regen faster because then you only got a "15 sec" escape power, and effectively two greens before the mobs take you down like a red-headed step-blaster; Instant Healing may not even help because the -regen debuffs that are a danger could pretty much floor that as well. And for regen builds that lack any defense at all, they will get hit, they will lose HP, and you only have three chances to make a play. And pray that those same mobs don't also have defense debuffs, which only make your non-existent defense cap out those mobs' To-Hit.
I don't know if Carnies are considered "standard" or "non-standard" situations, but I did run a Carnie tip mission, and all those -regen and -def debuffs shredded up my MA/Regen scrapper, and I couldn't even hit MoG to make a quick escape.
Quote:
OK, you're starting at zero. Add in Combat Jumping and Weave. Steadfast Protection unique in Tough. Gaussian Set. I consider those just basic stuff that everyone should have, and that gets you to about 14% defense. I'd shoot for about 25% defense, say, so another 11% or so to each position. It's a lot, but it's probably doable for an end game build. At 25% defense, you are very significantly reducing the amount of incoming damage. Uh... 20% of attacks hitting instead of 45%? So you're taking less than half as much incoming damage. Even if you don't get to 25%, it's worth it.|
Originally Posted by Golden_Avariel
I would think since you start with basically zero defense that slotting for defense wouldn't really help much.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Golden_Avariel
Agreed although the idea that I *must* (or even should) take the fighting pool to survive solo makes me sad.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Golden_Avariel
My usual strategy is to try and keep Dull Pain running all the time because the regen is so good with it. Recharge IO's together with AM from my controller friend keeps it up most of the time. When he isn't around I use it like you are describing - first line of healing when I get to 50%.
I use Moment of Glory to absorb the alpha and it works very well for that. Against the EB last night I triggered it before popping the lucks and after all of them expired but of course it doesn't last long enough to really help much against a persistent threat like that. Who knows when that Big Bash of Instant Death is coming until you see the animation and then it is too late. Timing Reconstruction seems like an art form. Sometimes I'll hit it too soon and then wish I had it a 15 seconds later. Sometimes I wait too long and die while activating it. Mostly I have it down about right although I wish it recharged faster straight out of the box. I only use Instant Healing when I'm fighting a very big group (like party members are starting to drop kind of big) or for the named bosses. In those cases I'll trigger it just after the first Reconstruction well after the fight as started. Does all that sound about right or am I still Grasshopper with much to learn? I haven't taken Tough/Weave on any of my scrappers and don't really want to start now. It isn't like I'm trying to do +4/x8 or anything. I just want to enjoy the set combo (which usually means taking most or all of both power sets) and play the game. |
Even Moment of Glory can be worth holding off on. It mitigates damage SO well that you might as well use it after you're injured, and then heal for 15 seconds while it's running. That's a little trickier, though. Still, I do try to hold off, and only use it in the middle of a nasty alpha, not before jumping in.
Reconstruction is just a matter of experience. When do you need a heal at all, is Reconstruction enough, should you click Dull Pain instead, that sort of thing.
Instant healing... well, I don't have perma Dull Pain, so I kind of cycle the two, which isn't really good advice for a normal build. Been too long for me to give good advice on it, I think.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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Carnies mish with boss are a real pain for any secondary.|
Originally Posted by SpiderTeo_OC
I don't know if Carnies are considered "standard" or "non-standard" situations, but I did run a Carnie tip mission, and all those -regen and -def debuffs shredded up my MA/Regen scrapper, and I couldn't even hit MoG to make a quick escape.
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Just /dark can do some ok stuff agains em due to the good native psionic resist and the nice heal.
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I fly by the seat of my pants with my /Regens. In my experience there is no such thing as "click these powers in this order and you'll live". Survival with a Regen is part reaction time, part anticipation, part dumb luck, and part build savvy. |
Originally Posted by Werner
It is numerically better to use Dull Pain when injured. There's really no debate on that one. You CAN keep it up full time, particularly if you're still learning to deal with spike damage and want that extra cushion, but you're missing out on half of its benefit.
Even Moment of Glory can be worth holding off on. It mitigates damage SO well that you might as well use it after you're injured, and then heal for 15 seconds while it's running. That's a little trickier, though. Still, I do try to hold off, and only use it in the middle of a nasty alpha, not before jumping in. Reconstruction is just a matter of experience. When do you need a heal at all, is Reconstruction enough, should you click Dull Pain instead, that sort of thing. Instant healing... well, I don't have perma Dull Pain, so I kind of cycle the two, which isn't really good advice for a normal build. Been too long for me to give good advice on it, I think. |
The build savvy is probably the least important out of the things within your control. A well played Regen with an average build will outlive a badly played one with an awesome build every single time.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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I can feel you there.. however if you can somehow find three extra slots to put in boxing or kick you can get a nice addition to melee defense through IO sets with it
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Originally Posted by Golden_Avariel
I don't really have anything against them and I have it on my Brute. If I could get either or both without having to get Boxing/Kick I'd get them a lot more often.
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50s:
White Valkyrie - BS/Regen Scrap
Fear of Silence - Ninja/Dark MM
Corporate Zombie - Necro/Poison MM
Ardent Cataclysm - Stone/Fire Tank
Angelic Heart - Peacebringer
Maelstrom - Elec/Elec Brute
Novastar - Energy/Fire Blaster
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I don't know, I don't have a big problem with them since the MoG improvements. I now consider my Regens my best Scrappers for opposing them.|
Originally Posted by Nemeros
Carnies mish with boss are a real pain for any secondary.
Just /dark can do some ok stuff agains em due to the good native psionic resist and the nice heal. |
Master Illusionists I can pretty much out-heal, even with their summoned friends. The Dark Servants are annoying, but not specifically dangerous.
Dark Ring Mistresses used to be a big problem for me, because they would always land Mask of Vitiation on me. But now I've learned to run in to start beating on them, let them use a couple of powers, and then pop MoG. Generally they'll try to use Mask on me while MoG is running, and generally they'll miss. Unless something unusual is going on, I'll have a +2 or +3 Mistress down before she recharges the Mask for a second use.
Edit: The above assumes one boss. Two (or more!) DRMs is a pretty serious problem for any character I have. I can deal with two MIs, but I usually have to wait for their mass of pets to expire - especially the Dark Servants.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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From what you said, I would strongly recommend dropping fitness. And I totally hear you on the boxing/kick requirement. I think we all feel that way =)|
Originally Posted by Golden_Avariel
Yeah sure, I can see that. I'm just trying to understand the ins and outs of the set and what I can do to get the most out of her despite the limitations I've put on her. My thoughts on global recharge being a great start is confirmed and I learned that I'm using the set similar to how others play it so on that level, this thread is pure win for me.
And if I want a future uber-Jiao after she's 50 I think I can see how to do that now, probably using the second build to experiment until I get something I like. |
I can say if you want to get the most out of her, then really fitness is not the way to go. The others seem like solid choices, but you'll get a lot more mileage out of tough and weave than health and stamina.
I took focused accuracy and physical perfection so that I could slot gaussians in accuracy, and I had one power instead of swift/health/stamina as three choices. That freed up two powers for me. But if you're going with fire for your APP, hmmm. Let me think about this a bit.
Ok, what about putting the Kinetic Combat proc into boxing? It is by far the cheapest piece in the set (I got one for 2 million not that long ago, compared to 100m+ for the triple), and gives you comparable mitigation to air superiority, but saves a power pick?
What in Blaze Mastery do you see as the key powers for your concept? Char/blast/fireball? Melt Armor? Thinking slotting options that can maximize results.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
My usual strategy is to try and keep Dull Pain running all the time because the regen is so good with it. Recharge IO's together with AM from my controller friend keeps it up most of the time. When he isn't around I use it like you are describing - first line of healing when I get to 50%.
I use Moment of Glory to absorb the alpha and it works very well for that. Against the EB last night I triggered it before popping the lucks and after all of them expired but of course it doesn't last long enough to really help much against a persistent threat like that. Who knows when that Big Bash of Instant Death is coming until you see the animation and then it is too late.
Timing Reconstruction seems like an art form. Sometimes I'll hit it too soon and then wish I had it a 15 seconds later. Sometimes I wait too long and die while activating it. Mostly I have it down about right although I wish it recharged faster straight out of the box.
I only use Instant Healing when I'm fighting a very big group (like party members are starting to drop kind of big) or for the named bosses. In those cases I'll trigger it just after the first Reconstruction well after the fight as started.
Does all that sound about right or am I still Grasshopper with much to learn? I haven't taken Tough/Weave on any of my scrappers and don't really want to start now. It isn't like I'm trying to do +4/x8 or anything. I just want to enjoy the set combo (which usually means taking most or all of both power sets) and play the game.