DM/SD build, need enlightment


Aumakua

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightchill_EU View Post
I dont get it :x
Well, there's a WHOLE LOT to get, so that isn't surprising. Let's start back at the beginning, probably TOO far back, but hey.

First, what is defense debuff resistance? It resists defense debuffs, of course! So let's say you're running around with 45% defense to all positions. Now some minion shoots you with a machine gun for a 10% defense debuff. With no defense debuff resistance, your defense drops to 35%. With 50% defense debuff resistance, your defense drops (100% - 50%) * 10% = 5%, to 40%. With 90% defense debuff resistance, your defense drops (100% - 90%) * 10% = 1%, to 44%.

Now let's talk about cascading defense failure. Now that you've been hit by one minion with a machine gun, whether your defense is now 35% or 40% or 44%, the NEXT minion with a machine gun is more likely to hit you. Someone with 35% defense is three times as likely to get hit with that second shot. So the shots starts to pile up. Soon, your defense is solidly in the red, everyone is hitting you with everything, and you either run or die.

With 50% defense debuff resistance, this scenario is less likely, but can definitely still occur. Basically, they just have to pry you open, and then they'll just keep debuffing you until it's all over.

But with 90% defense debuff resistance, that first hit barely budges your defense. Yes, future attacks are technically more likely to occur, but not by much. Cascading defense failure, while technically possible, will probably be rare to nonexistent.

So on sets where it is possible (particularly SR and SD), it's nice to grab what defense debuff resistance we can.

Shield Defense has three powers that give you defense debuff resistance - Battle Agility, Grant Cover and Active Defense. The DDR in Battle Agility and Grant Cover are enhanced the usual way - by adding defense enhancements to those powers. So if you want good DDR, you'll take and slot both Battle Agility and Grant Cover for defense. Active Defense is a little different. First, you cannot slot defensive enhancements or sets in it. However, there's a way around that, which is to use Membranes. Membranes WILL slot there, and the defense in them WILL enhance the DDR (as mentioned earlier in the thread, this may not be intended, and may go away some day). The second difference is that it is a click power, and it can overlap, and the DDR stacks when it does.

So to get maximum DDR, the goal is to have Battle Agility and Grant Cover slotted for defense, Active Defense slotted with Membranes, and then enough global recharge in the build to double-stack Active Defense. Do all that, and you can get to 95% defense debuff resistance, the cap. Many or most people settle for less than that. The really hard part is the massive recharge, so most will probably settle for some short period of time where Active Defense isn't stacked. For example, in your original build, Active Defense wouldn't be stacked for 13 seconds out of every 60.

As far as calculating the time spent with it double-stacked vs. single-stacked, that gets fairly complicated since these builds usually have Hasten but not perma Hasten. I just use a spreadsheet I made. I could explain all the calculations, but I'm guessing that that's going farther than what you were really asking about.

Hopefully I got all that right. I'm sure someone will correct me if not.


"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightchill_EU View Post
For the build itselft, I was wondering if sacrifying Fireball for basicly more +def carriers was worth it compared to just pick Shadowmelt and drop its cooldown to about 30 sec.
Forget about Shadowmeld. You don't need it on a /SD toon.

I came up with three builds. I have issues with all three, but when not using Purples or PVP IOs, it becomes more difficult to nail all of the general build goals I shoot for. If I had to pick one of the builds, I would use the third one - I'll explain why shortly.

First Build: Has 46% Melee/46.6% Ranged/43.1% AoE. Runs MG>Smite>SL>Smite gapless. Slightly padded Melee/Ranged is good for debuffers, and the AoE not being capped isn't terribly bad. End net gain is 2.06/sec - worse than the other builds. I also dislike that SL is not slotted for any Heal enhancement.

This build has two things going for it over other builds - it has Shadow Maul(you could swap SM out for DC if you wanted) and SD is slotted with GSFC, so it won't kill your fodder as fast(with a team, this is less important than solo). The issue I have with this approach is that SD's Accuracy is kinda crappy - 79.9% vs. +4.

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Second Build: Softcapped to all positions - 46.2%/46.1%/45.2%. This build is 2.5% recharge shy in MG of running the MG>Smite>SL>Smite chain gapless. You may not even notice. Net End gain is 2.26. I shoot for 95% Acc vs. +4 in all attacks before SD, but this build falls short in all but SD. SD has an oblit set and 108.1 Acc vs. +4. The build also has Tactics which can be situationally run for a boost to teammates' Acc, as well as upping your DPS due to the GSFC proc.

This build has one major thing up on the third build - Fireblast is slotted and usable. If you don't need Fireblast, proceed to build three.

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Third Build: This build has all positions softcapped: 45.5%/46.1%/45.2%. Alternately, you could drop the 3rd Enzyme Exposure in Battle Agility and put that slot into Fireball with a Detonation Acc/Dam/End IO, which would drop your AoE Def down to 44.6% but give Fireball better numbers. Net End gain is 2.23/sec.

This build runs the MG>Smite>SL>Smite chain gapless. All attacks, sans Fireball, have 94.6% Acc vs. +4 before SD. SD has 113.5% Acc vs. +4. I also like the slotting of SL the best in this build. It has Tactics for helping teammates and for adding DPS to yourself due to the GSFC proc.

What I dislike is that, instead of having Fireblast, you have Melt Armor as a set mule in this build, and the power sucks so you will never use it. All the other numbers I like better, and I personally rarely find myself using a ST ranged attack, so this seems like a fair trade to me. YMMV. If you don't need Fireblast, this is the build I like the best.

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If you have any questions, please feel free to ask. I hope these help you out and I wish you good Scrapping!


 

Posted

Ok first thanks for the builds and explainations, cant check them out atm I m at works.
Tho, I was thinking about not going for Fireball in a 50 build. I'm definately picking it for the xp time for AoE reasons as I'll stick to me 2 basic attack till I have enough recharge.

But I was thinking lately, in a minmaxing point of vue, I have no interest on fast killing minions around me till I'm done with bosses. I mean, both AAO and Soul Drain scales on mob number, so having stuff around me actually buffes me. Right?


 

Posted

Yeah, ideal is for everything to die all at once as you trigger a final AoE, because you're buffed by numbers. However, holding off on AoE damage just sounds questionable to me except for elite bosses and AVs.

I really need to do some calculating, because I'm planning out my Fire/Shield. I'm targeting serious AoE damage, but I probably don't want so much AoE that I finish off all my fuel before the bosses are down. On the other hand, with multiple bosses (playing on +?x8), the AoE is taking them down faster as well. I'm going to guess that I'm still best off spamming as much AoE as I can, but I haven't actually done any math, and I really should before I commit billions.


"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks

 

Posted

I have a DM/SD/Weapons and I am thinking of dropping Weapons and pick up Soul Mastery. Does anyone think Shadow Meld worth getting on a Shielder? I do dabble in PvP, but it is mainly for PvE since I like to solo AV's & EB's.


lvl 50 - Elec/WP/Mu Mastery Stalker, lvl 50 - Dark/EA/Soul Mastery Stalker, lvl 50 - EM/Nin/Soul Mastery Stalker

New Toons
lvl 21 - StJ/WP Stalker

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aumakua View Post
I have a DM/SD/Weapons and I am thinking of dropping Weapons and pick up Soul Mastery. Does anyone think Shadow Meld worth getting on a Shielder? I do dabble in PvP, but it is mainly for PvE since I like to solo AV's & EB's.
If you're soft capped, Shadow Meld won't help you at all in PvE. PvP is probably different because of diminishing returns and the way defense works there.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aumakua View Post
I have a DM/SD/Weapons and I am thinking of dropping Weapons and pick up Soul Mastery. Does anyone think Shadow Meld worth getting on a Shielder? I do dabble in PvP, but it is mainly for PvE since I like to solo AV's & EB's.
Yeah you'll want to take SM for PvP. You're going to need as much defense as you can get. I'd also take OWtS if you were you.


Virtue: @Santorican

Dark/Shield Build Thread

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightchill_EU View Post
Ok first thanks for the builds and explainations, cant check them out atm I m at works.
Tho, I was thinking about not going for Fireball in a 50 build. I'm definately picking it for the xp time for AoE reasons as I'll stick to me 2 basic attack till I have enough recharge.

But I was thinking lately, in a minmaxing point of vue, I have no interest on fast killing minions around me till I'm done with bosses. I mean, both AAO and Soul Drain scales on mob number, so having stuff around me actually buffes me. Right?
If you're doing DM/SD without Fireball, you're right. You only have one big AoE, and you only get to fire it once per spawn pretty much, so what point you fire it at is irrelevant, as long as it's buffed by Soul Drain and AAO.

What I do is run in, start pounding on bosses while everybody gathers into melee, hit Soul Drain, hit the bosses some more, getting them down to about 1/4 health or so, then hit Shield Charge. If I'm taking more damage than I'm comfortable with I'll hit Shield Charge earlier, but then the bosses take longer to finish off.


Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper

Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World

 

Posted

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Tactics for helping teammates and for adding DPS to yourself due to the GSFC proc.
Does it actually works? My brother tryed it and said it never procs, like -never-.


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Nightchill_EU View Post
Does it actually works? My brother tryed it and said it never procs, like -never-.
I noticed a marked increase in DPS on pylon runs with my DM/SD. Now, it is possible I was more efficient with my attack chain/SD timing, or lucky with the damage procs, as I wasn't monitoring how often the GSFC proc fired. I know on paper it's not a huge boost, but it is a boost. I have Body instead of Blaze for endurance sustainability, so I can afford to run it. With Blaze, you won't be able to run it constantly, so it would be a situational usage barring outside buffing.


 

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With Blaze, you won't be able to run it constantly, so it would be a situational usage barring outside buffing.
Well I have speed boost perma and Transferance on demand but yeah with one Fulcrum hit I hit the damage cap pretty often.

Gaidin's build:
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is quite interesting. Actually I dont know if melt armore is such a loss compared to fire blast. I mean, ignoring the -Def it is still a -10% res that refresh faster (actually twice faster, does it stacks?) than it last. Thats a straight 10% dmg boost that technically "overcap" (the word doesnt really fits here) damage bonus.

Now maybe I could also skip Tactics and slot up Dark Consump with Oblit and save a Crush impact. Or maybe it just ***** everything up. Tho I can very much not having Dark Consum, I like almost never use it and I run already all the Leadership toggles.

I also see that you use 5x LotG 7.5 AND Basilik's Gaze 4 pieces.. does it stacks? I thought it was only 5 times that same effect.



Btw, I feel kina bad having to slot up Stamina with 6. Is it like THAT worth it to go cap AoE def?
And can anyone explain me how Grand Cover works? I mean, it doesnt looks like a toggle, duration states 0.75s...


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightchill_EU View Post
Actually I dont know if melt armore is such a loss compared to fire blast. I mean, ignoring the -Def it is still a -10% res that refresh faster (actually twice faster, does it stacks?) than it last. Thats a straight 10% dmg boost that technically "overcap" (the word doesnt really fits here) damage bonus.
The problem with Melt armor is that when you're using it, you're not attacking. I don't know how much it helps compared to not running your attack chain, though every mention of it in the Scrapper forums has led me to believe it's numbers are terrible. Werner will probably chime in on this one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightchill_EU View Post
Now maybe I could also skip Tactics and slot up Dark Consump with Oblit and save a Crush impact. Or maybe it just ***** everything up. Tho I can very much not having Dark Consum, I like almost never use it and I run already all the Leadership toggles.
Tactics has the GSFC set in it for the 2.5% Def to all positions, so replacing it with an Oblit set in a different power would keep softcap to Melee, but you'd lose softcap on both Ranged and AoE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightchill_EU View Post
I also see that you use 5x LotG 7.5 AND Basilik's Gaze 4 pieces.. does it stacks? I thought it was only 5 times that same effect.
You can't have more than five of any set bonus, this is true. However, the LotG 7.5% do stack with normal 7.5 set bonuses. Therefore, you could have five LoTG 7.5% recharge bonuses and also five 7.5% normal recharge set bonuses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightchill_EU View Post
Btw, I feel kina bad having to slot up Stamina with 6. Is it like THAT worth it to go cap AoE def?
And can anyone explain me how Grand Cover works? I mean, it doesnt looks like a toggle, duration states 0.75s...
Well, you're going to want 4 slots in Stamina anyway, especially since you don't have CP and PP from Body. The two slots give you a tad more end recovery, a 2.5% damage buff, and bumps your AoE def to softcap. In general, most people view this as worth the slots. Some AVs have some heavy hitting AoEs, so I think softcapping AoE is worth it for that purpose alone. For normal gameplay, no you'd probably not notice the difference very often.

Primarily, Grant Cover give you, and nearby teammates, 13.84% DDR and is why you take the power. See Werner's prior post about how DDR works and why having a high percentage matters. GC also gives you and your teammates 13.84% Recharge Debuff Resistance and, while useful, isn't the primary reason to take the power. Finally, GC also gives only your nearby teammates 8.44% +Def to all but Psionic, which is again not generally a reason to take the power, but may be useful to your team. By nearby, I mean 15' radius.


 

Posted

First, thanks for all the infos, even those I havent replied to. I take a look at all builds an read everything, I just dont always have time to reply.

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Primarily, Grant Cover give you, and nearby teammates, 13.84% DDR and is why you take the power. See Werner's prior post about how DDR works and why having a high percentage matters. GC also gives you and your teammates 13.84% Recharge Debuff Resistance and, while useful, isn't the primary reason to take the power. Finally, GC also gives only your nearby teammates 8.44% +Def to all but Psionic, which is again not generally a reason to take the power, but may be useful to your team. By nearby, I mean 15' radius.
What I dont get is how the power works exactly, the tooltip says its 10 sec cooldown and 0.75 sec duration.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightchill_EU View Post
What I dont get is how the power works exactly, the tooltip says its 10 sec cooldown and 0.75 sec duration.
It's a toggle that costs 0.16 EPS.


 

Posted

Well well well... I'v been toying around with all of your builds. I came up with this:
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1,803
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Dark Melee
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Shadow Punch -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(25), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(31), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), T'Death-Dam%(33)
Level 1: Deflection -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(3), LkGmblr-Rchg+(3), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(5), ImpArm-ResDam(5), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(7)
Level 2: Smite -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(13), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(13), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Mako-Dam%(40), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 4: Battle Agility -- HO:Enzym(A), LkGmblr-Def(7), LkGmblr-Rchg+(9), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(23)
Level 6: True Grit -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(9), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(11), Numna-Heal/Rchg(11)
Level 8: Siphon Life -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(25), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(31), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), Heal-I(46)
Level 10: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(15), RechRdx-I(15)
Level 12: Active Defense -- HO:Membr(A), HO:Membr(17), HO:Membr(17)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(19), Zephyr-ResKB(19)
Level 16: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 18: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(21), P'Shift-End%(21), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(23)
Level 22: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 24: Phalanx Fighting -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Dark Consumption -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(27), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(27), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(29), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(29)
Level 28: Soul Drain -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(42), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(42), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), Oblit-%Dam(48)
Level 30: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 32: Midnight Grasp -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(34), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Mako-Dam%(42)
Level 35: Shield Charge -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(36), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Oblit-%Dam(37)
Level 38: Tough -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Aegis-ResDam(39), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(39), Aegis-EndRdx/Rchg(39), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(43), LkGmblr-Def(43)
Level 44: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(45), LkGmblr-Rchg+(45)
Level 47: Focused Accuracy -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(48), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(48), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(50), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(50), GSFC-Build%(50)
Level 49: Grant Cover -- Ksmt-ToHit+(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 4: Ninja Run



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Why?
1- It has no purples and quite a minimum of HamiOs.
2- It has both Shaodw Punch and Smite so I will actually be able to pull a decent amount of damage before I'm fully enhenced with whooping recharge and stuff.
3- It sadly doesnt have Fireball, maybe I can live with it. Tho it does have a travel power and I dont relay on a stupid jet pack.
4- Siphon life has some heal
5- I dont 6 slot stamina and true gift enhencing recharge, end cost etc.. what makes me feel bad.
6- I have a meeting **** I m late, see ye


 

Posted

Feedback my friends?


 

Posted

I was thinking bout switching cmbt jumping for maneuvre and focused accu for tactics.

Pro: Caps def on every positions (since maneuvre is more def), gives team bonus.
Con: I lose the mini travel power hurdle+CJ.

Endo-wise its about the same, CJ cost almost nothing but Focused Acc is about twice the leadership toggles.

Now the real question is what is Tactics vs Focused Accuracy. Mids states:

Tactics: 7% to hit, 48%perce, 36%res blind
(I dont need the res status on it, tho its always good for the team)

Focused Accu: 5% to hit, 60%perce, 70%res hit debuff, +20% accuracy



The problem is that I have no idea what this 20% accuracy actually gives compared to the +hit.


 

Posted

Can anyone confirms that Membrane Exposure actually WORKS to raise DDR in active defense?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightchill_EU View Post
Can anyone confirms that Membrane Exposure actually WORKS to raise DDR in active defense?
They do, as do Enzymes.


 

Posted

But Enzymes brings end reduc and so would better fit into Battle Agility right?
Sorry for the dumb question but they cost a huge crapload of cash I dont want to mess up with this.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightchill_EU View Post
But Enzymes brings end reduc and so would better fit into Battle Agility right?
Sorry for the dumb question but they cost a huge crapload of cash I dont want to mess up with this.
Correct. Typically, you'd use Membranes in AD and Enzymes in defense toggles.


 

Posted

Or sets in defense toggles. I seem to end up about half and half, but that's not from some a priori plan, but rather just how things come together. Enzymes are good for saving slots, but sometimes you want to spend those slots on set bonuses instead. Membranes in Active Defense are a given, though.


"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
Or sets in defense toggles. I seem to end up about half and half, but that's not from some a priori plan, but rather just how things come together. Enzymes are good for saving slots, but sometimes you want to spend those slots on set bonuses instead. Membranes in Active Defense are a given, though.
I was speaking in general about their usage and not specifically to replace sets, but yeah that too.