Turn Super Speed into Ninja Run!
By
Blue Rabbit,
Posted on: 2010-07-19 15:17 in Suggestions and Ideas
Against this for conceptual reasons. Speedsters like the Flash and Quicksilver aren't able to jump any higher due to their abilities (putting aside things like a boost from making a superspeed tornado, or Flash just invoking the "Speed Force").
I don't have much trouble with Super Speed, in fact it's what I usually take if there's no story/origin reason for a character to take another travel power. I like moving super-fast.
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Superspeed's balanced as it is - fast straight line movement in exchange for probelms with verticals. Would you swap some ground speed for the built in jump? (It also has a very nice pre-cursor power compared to other travel powers)
As it is you can get Hurdle and Ninja Jump without costing an extra power pick and use them with Superspeed for good vertical movement. And the devs make money from this setup if you buy the BBooster pack, so I doubt they're eager to change that.
No thanks... I'll stick with my Super Speed + CJ/Hurdle combination.
Of course, this assumes SS would lose some horizontal speed in exchange for gaining a bit of vertical movement. If it kept its current horizontal while gaining some vertical, I wouldn't necessarily be opposed depending on how much it suffered from travel suppression (CJ + Hurdle's a great way to get around travel suppression).
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I'd rather the silly restriction for when you hit a curb/small flower/poted plant/pebble you can't move forward/get over it without jumping and then some was removed frankly.
I use my SS with Hurdle and I knew what I was getting into. So unless it meant gaining some more vertical movement with no loss of horizontal one, I'm against.
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That's basically what I'm looking for. I don't see a need to reduce the horizontal speed of Super Speed. Yes, that's its balance point - fast horizontal speed with no vertical help. But the thing is, Super Jump comes very, very close to the same horizontal speed, and tends to win because it can just go over most obstacles. I have no problem with throwing Super Speed a bone with some more height and, above all, more air control so jumping doesn't slow you down.
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Originally Posted by Blue Rabbit
I use my SS with Hurdle and I knew what I was getting into. So unless it meant gaining some more vertical movement with no loss of horizontal one, I'm against.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I tend to be disappointed that it doesn't have a lesser movement toggle rather than Flurry or Hasten. Or that Hasten doesn't at least have a run speed boost.
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Originally Posted by DrMike2000
Superspeed's balanced as it is - fast straight line movement in exchange for probelms with verticals. Would you swap some ground speed for the built in jump? (It also has a very nice pre-cursor power compared to other travel powers)
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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Yeah, there is that, as well. I understand why Hasten's defence buff was removed back in the day (the GDN, I think), but why not give it a temporary running speed effect? I mean, you're faster. Wouldn't it make sense to run faster?|
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
I tend to be disappointed that it doesn't have a lesser movement toggle rather than Flurry or Hasten. Or that Hasten doesn't at least have a run speed boost.
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You know, ideally, I'd like to see a power like Ninja Run introduced in a pool of its own as an alternative travel power. But I don't think it'd be worth the power pick. It's significantly slower than Super Speed and it doesn't really jump very high. Purely practically, why would you pick that over Super Speed, specifically if you could alter Super Speed's running animation to that of Ninja Run (wishful thinking)?
The reason I suggest this is because I don't think a legitimate version of Ninja Run which I can slot for its attributes would ever be added, and Super Speed is almost all the way there.
You know... People keep telling me "I'd rather take this and Hurdle and Combat Jumping," but... That's three power picks. What I'm saying is why not make the power be kind of like that with just ONE power pick? Boost its jump height a little and, most importantly, give it enough air control to match its ground speed. Here's the problem:
Regular jumping has very little friction. That means your ability to control your movement, including speed up and slow down, is almost nil. So when you jump with super speed, you just sail on ahead. When you activate Combat Jumping, however, its air speed is FAR lower than that of Super Speed, so when you run and jump with Combat Jumping, it actually slows you down. It has rather a lot of friction, and even when moving in the direction your run-jumped, it STILL slows you down, leading you to make jumps far shorter than it could, and in fact not significantly longer than basic run. And if you try to turn in the air, you air speed screeches to basically zero and you stop dead in the air.
Giving Super Speed more air control and more friction would allow us to do controlled running jumps at running speed, vastly improving Super Speed utility, even with no jump height increase. This used to kill me a lot in the old Faultline. If I jumped between the different sections of land and realise I'd missed my jump when I was already in the air, there wasn't a damn thing I could do. If I realised my jump would be short, but there was a platform to the left of me, I couldn't do anything because I couldn't steer. I'd drop in the crevasse and then have to painfully back-track to the gate to try again, only to misjudge another jump and have to backtrack again.
Or how about climbing to the Terra Volta reactor? The last level is basically a series of precision jumps where fast running speed is of no help, but good air control would be. When I need to make a long jump onto a tight platform, giving me decent air control would help. With the current LACK of air control, hitting the platform is a crapshot.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I don't know that it's very, very close. The hard cap on SJ is slightly above the mid-point between Fly and SS. (20 mph more than Fly and 14 and change less than SS).|
Samuel_Tow may be seeing an optical illusion: But the thing is, Super Jump comes very, very close to the same horizontal speed... |
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| ...and tends to win because it can just go over most obstacles. |
Dec out.
Well, lets be fair, Sam.
Yes, Hurdle + SS + CJ = 3 Power Picks, but you were likely to pick 2 of them to begin with, when you decided you wanted to go SS as a travel power (ie Speed Pool and Fitness Pool).
Personally, I'd still rather see Ninja Run stack with (and thusly not de-toggle) Combat Jumping.
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This.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
Personally, I'd still rather see Ninja Run stack with (and thusly not de-toggle) Combat Jumping.
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Is combat jumping that power that looks like parkour? That is cool.
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You shouldn't assume Fitness pool as an obvious pick. Not all of us agree with this.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Yes, Hurdle + SS + CJ = 3 Power Picks, but you were likely to pick 2 of them to begin with, when you decided you wanted to go SS as a travel power (ie Speed Pool and Fitness Pool).
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More to the point, I find it completely unacceptable that a Booster-specific, paid-for power that does not take a power pick or have prerequisites could be altered to be more usability-friendly. Ninja Run is balanced by the fact that it detoggles all other travel assists that it can even afffect (so obviously not Hurdle), and that's part of what it needs to not eclipse the actual pool travel powers.
Let me put it this way - if Ninja Run required two power picks (a prerequisite and the power) and you could only pick it up after level 14, would you be as willing to take and use it? Because it's not actually a very good travel power. It's good, but it's good because it's "free," because it looks cool and because it's available at level 4. As a legitimate travel power, it couldn't compete.
What I'm suggesting is to add a functionality kind of like Ninja Run to Super Speed, thus preserving the balance of power pick travel powers, and furthermore allowing for more interesting customization options for Super Speed.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Isn't that a problem, though? Super Speed SHOULD be the fastest and, in many, many instances, it simply isn't. Aside from speed, what other utility does the power have? Partial invisibility? It actually NEEDS that to even function, because you're forced to go THROUGH certain spawns for the simple fact that you can't go over them.|
Originally Posted by Decorum
I don't know that it's very, very close. The hard cap on SJ is slightly above the mid-point between Fly and SS. (20 mph more than Fly and 14 and change less than SS).
And it's probably that making you think they're so close. |
Are we seriously saying that Super Speed would somehow become overpowered if it could gain better air control? Because I don't think I can agree with that. All it would do is make it a little more user-friendly to use, as well as allowing us to make better precision jumps.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I wish it would, though. If they ever started broadening the choices in regular power pools like they have in APPs, I could see it being added to Fitness. Barring that, I wouldn't mind seeing Health get folded into Stamina and having a slottable Ninja Run as the level 14 pick for Fitness.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
The reason I suggest this is because I don't think a legitimate version of Ninja Run which I can slot for its attributes would ever be added
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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Point is, I don't think it will ever be a viable travel power compared to the others, and I doubt it would keep its animation even if it were added. And while I understand that some would take it anyway (some still use Swift and Hurdle as travel powers), it's not something someone looking for an actual travel power will take, because it's neither fast enough nor agile enough to compete.|
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
I wish it would, though. If they ever started broadening the choices in regular power pools like they have in APPs, I could see it being added to Fitness. Barring that, I wouldn't mind seeing Health get folded into Stamina and having a slottable Ninja Run as the level 14 pick for Fitness.
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I wouldn't complain if it were added, of course, but not in Fitness. The less reason there is to take the Fitness pool, the better. I'd say either Leaping or Speed, but I'd sooner see it crammed into Fighting than put in Fitness. I guess it won't be viewed as a legitimate travel power, but more something inbetween combat travel and real travel. But then, we have nonsense like Group Flight, so eh.
I'd like to see it added to the game, but I just don't think it will be. So I'm looking for the next best thing, which is retaining its animation and retrofitting an existing power into something like its functionality.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I hope the title was stupid enough to catch your attention
Now, pretty much ever since Ninja Run was introduced into the game, the player collective have been wondering if a travel power like it will be introduced into the game proper. Is there even place for it? Where would it fit? Would it require a new pool?
While contemplating just those questions tonight, Nuclear Toast gave me an interesting idea - what if instead of adding still more travel powers, we altered Super Speed ever so slightly? How? Well...
Whenever you think Super Speed, what's the one thing you remember people constantly complaining about? Complete lack of vertical movement and air control of any shape. Combat Jumping does serve to mitigate this somewhat, but Combat Jumping's high friction and low air speed cause you to rapidly lose momentum if you turn mid air, or indeed just going straight line. Besides, it's a second power pick just to make a travel power even just somewhat decent.
So why not cut the middle man? Why not just give Super Speed a SLIGHTLY higher jump height, say around the height of unslotted Combat Jumping, and as much jump speed and jump friction to maintain and control something like Super Speed even in the air? I mean, Combat Jumping height isn't anywhere remotely likely to challenge Super Jump, as one of its key utilities is its ability to take you to high places, which even with a minor jump enhancement, Super Speed couldn't do. And besides, at straight line speed, Super Jump does not fall too far behind even now.
Why use the title I did, though? In essence, because that is exactly what Ninja Run is - fast running with moderately high jumping. Now, if we are lucky, power pool customization will allow us to pick our travel power animations, and one only hopes that Ninja Run or something kind of like it will be among those. If we give super Speed just that little bit of extra air control and give it a less goofy high-speed running style, it has the potential to match and even surpass the coolness factor of Ninja Run by quite a bit.
If this were to happen, I know I'd respec a fair few characters into Super Speed without a second thought.