Katana isn't Broad Sword, and the powers, even though similar and in the same order, are not the same powers. Take Hack. Hack has a DPA of 71 vs. only 43 from Slash. It's very much the better power.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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Ill tell you the same thing I tell everyone when they are deciding if they need 2 of there lower teir powers.....|
Originally Posted by Briarpatch
I'm trying to decide how I want to build out my BS scrapper, and after doing some research on Katana and BS scrapper builds I started scratching my head.
Katana builds seem to favor Gamblers Cut, the Katana version of Slash, over the Sting of the Wasp, or the Katana version of Hack. When I look at BS builds Hack is taken nearly every time no questions asked. So my question is this, if I intend to load an attack with the Hecatomb and Achilles Heel procs would I be better off using Slash over Hack? I mean it's working for the Katana folks, right? |
Take Both.
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Hmm, just seems like I'd get more out of the -resist proc in a faster recharging/activating power.
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Originally Posted by Werner
It's very much the better power.
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You would. But gimping your attack chain with a terrible attack in order to get a very slight increase in the frequency of a minor damage buff isn't going to be worth it.|
Originally Posted by Briarpatch
Hmm, just seems like I'd get more out of the -resist proc in a faster recharging/activating power.
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Edit: Wait, what am I saying, Slash has the same activation time as Hack, so it won't help with the proc at all. Yeah, it recharges faster, but that shouldn't be a serious build problem to overcome in an IO build. You should be activation time limited, not recharge time limited.
Edit 2: Assuming you want a dual-Parry chain, you'll want Head Splitter -> Parry -> Disembowel -> Hack -> Parry. To fit in that chain, Hack only needs +5% recharge. So activation time is the same, and recharge is a complete non-issue.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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Originally Posted by Werner
You would. But gimping your attack chain with a terrible attack in order to get a very slight increase in the frequency of a minor damage buff isn't going to be worth it.
Edit: Wait, what am I saying, Slash has the same activation time as Hack, so it won't help with the proc at all. Yeah, it recharges faster, but that shouldn't be a serious build problem to overcome in an IO build. You should be activation time limited, not recharge time limited. Edit 2: Assuming you want a dual-Parry chain, you'll want Head Splitter -> Parry -> Disembowel -> Hack -> Parry. To fit in that chain, Hack only needs +5% recharge. So activation time is the same, and recharge is a complete non-issue. |
Thanks for the advice! I'll keep hacking away then I suppose
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You're wrong so often that it's painful, and by often I mean always.
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Originally Posted by Fire_Minded
Ill tell you the same thing I tell everyone when they are deciding if they need 2 of there lower teir powers.....
Take Both. |
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Your just here to try to take a snipe because you didnt get your hug today...move along baldy.
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Originally Posted by Gaidin
You're wrong so often that it's painful, and by often I mean always.
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I'm not sure why people are jumping down your throat, perhaps because I'm horrible with names and spend most of my time on one forum, but you ARE wrong. But I suppose it's kind of pointless saying that without explaining why, particularly for other people who might happen onto this thread with the exact same question.|
Originally Posted by Fire_Minded
Your just here to try to take a snipe because you didnt get your hug today...move along baldy.
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In this case, the original poster mentioned "Hecatomb and Achilles Heel". So we're talking about a level 50 build IO'd to the hilt. In such a build, any use of Slash is going to do nothing but reduce your damage output. And taking the power means you don't get to take some other power that might actually benefit your build.
I might take Slash while leveling up, but if I did, I would respec out of it in my mid 30s, which is when I normally do a respec into my final attack chain. Again, at that point, Slash would have no place in my build, or any decently-optimized build.
Now, if you LIKE the Slash animation, say, that's fine. Or if you just like collecting all the attacks for the fun of it, that's fine. You can certainly play the game however you want. Fun is extremely subjective. But when the question is about optimization, which this one certainly appears to be, you do not want to take Slash.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
[QUOTE=Werner;3040461]I'm not sure why people are jumping down your throat, perhaps because I'm horrible with names and spend most of my time on one forum, but you ARE wrong. But I suppose it's kind of pointless saying that without explaining why, particularly for other people who might happen onto this thread with the exact same question.QUOTE]
If I am wrong for having a diffrent understanding of my build, then not a problem.
To answer why they jump down my throat?Its simple.People need someone whos a scape goat to hate, and they chose me for a couple bad moments of behavior in the past...aka...being drunk and posting drivle on the forums while being ****ed up.
So I have a following of idiots who like to keep beating a dead horse, and like getting a shot in because it makes them feel better to do Forum PvP.
The 2 iv comment towards before you said something to me are a couple of them, but no where near as annoying as PC_Guy or Macskull when it comes to Forum Greifing and trying to gather people to there Forum PvP cause.
Edit : PC_Guy and Macskull try there hardest to say they cant belive they post on anything I say, but they make it a point to post on 95% of the threads I make.Just so they feel like anyone cares.
Iv acctually had a few people ask them why they are acting like thread jacks, and they never respond with much more other then its because Fire_Minded is <Incert childish and meaningless insults here.>
Taking both powers is unnecessary.
See guys? It's easy disagreeing with someone and being polite about it.
This isn't a 'different' MMO's forum that always acts extremely negatively towards people.
Whining about everything since 2006.
Ammo switching for Dual Pistols was my idea:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484
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I personally would have been fine witht hat kind of response, but others arnt so happy with giving a short and sweet dissagreement.They have to thread jack or greif.|
Originally Posted by Vel_Overload
Taking both powers is unnecessary.
See guys? It's easy disagreeing with someone and being polite about it. This isn't a 'different' MMO's forum that always acts extremely negatively towards people. |
The way I play, both would be relavent for me.If its not for you, then maybe I could understand as to why that is?
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Well, having both isn't desirable for me because I'm trying to achieve the highest possible single-target damage output (given other concerns). To do that, I'm a big believer in using an optimized attack chain. For my Broad Sword Scrappers, I'm running what I believe to be the highest DPS two-Parry chain, Head Splitter -> Parry -> Disembowel -> Hack -> Parry. And I pretty much just hit those attacks, over and over, almost no matter what the fight. Even if I could get a fully-slotted Slash as a bonus power or something, since it contributes so much less damage per second than anything in that chain but Parry (and even then, it's only slightly better than Parry), I simply can't USE Slash without doing one of two things - reducing my damage output or reducing my defense. Well, I certainly don't want to do either of those things, so I simply wouldn't use Slash, even if, as I said, it was free. And it isn't free, of course. To take Slash, I'd have to drop some other power. And I'm usually hurting for power picks when I'm putting together builds, because there are so many tasty powers to choose from. So taking Slash would only be detrimental for me.|
Originally Posted by Fire_Minded
The way I play, both would be relavent for me.If its not for you, then maybe I could understand as to why that is?
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But as I hinted earlier, this is all mostly irrelevant through the early levels, when you may be short on attacks, and particularly don't have Head Splitter or Disembowel yet. That's when I would consider Slash as a passable filler attack.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
I appreciate your input as well Fireminded. And like all PvP, in game and out, you only really lose the fight if you let them get your goat.
Slash was tempting in the early levels as a filler, but I share Werner's opinion regarding attack chain optimization. So at 34, when Headsplitter is slotted, I would have to dump hack or Slash.
My original question was basically whether the benefit of the procs would outweigh the lower damage. Werner's input, along with a little number crunching of my own, convinced me to stick with Hack.
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Well now that Werner exsplained it to me, it makes perfect sense.|
Originally Posted by Briarpatch
I appreciate your input as well Fireminded. And like all PvP, in game and out, you only really lose the fight if you let them get your goat.
Slash was tempting in the early levels as a filler, but I share Werner's opinion regarding attack chain optimization. So at 34, when Headsplitter is slotted, I would have to dump hack or Slash. My original question was basically whether the benefit of the procs would outweigh the lower damage. Werner's input, along with a little number crunching of my own, convinced me to stick with Hack. |
Your right by the way, they only continually harrass me like they have over the last few "MONTHS" because they know they annoy me.
I have nothing relevant to add (except to take Hack instead of Slash because it's waaaay better), but I wanted to pop in to say two things:
1. Fire_Minded is incredibly paranoid.
2. He's also incredibly wrong.
Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
I'd say reference my BS/WP guide (points to signature). I'll side with Werner on this one and say Hack is definitely the way to go. Even at lower levels, you can have a nice "single target" attack chain with Hack, Slice, and Parry.
The extra attack can be taken at lower levels and respec'd out of later on, but that would purely be user preference. I would not recommend it, however. Take Hack and just keep mashing the buttons... 
This is a no-brainer, Hack is by far the better attack. There's some logic to having Slash in the low levels as a filler but it will quickly become obsolete by the early 20's. By the time you've picked up Disembowel you'll never use Slash again and it's very marginal after you get into the mid-teens.
I've run two broadsword scrappers to 50, one BS/Regen in issue 5 and a BS/Shield in issue 14. If you do take Slash for some reason plan on respecing it out by the time you reach the mid-20's. Personally I see no reason in wasting a power pick on something that I'm going to toss when I get level 22 and SO's. I guarantee that there's something you'll get more use out of even as a lowbie.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
I'd like to throw out one benefit Slash does have in the upper levels: replacing Parry on a soft-capped build that doesn't have enough recharge to fill all the gaps with just Hack, Disembowel, and Headsplitter. My own BS/SR uses Slash over Parry since it does slightly higher damage and I don't need the defense. If I had a fair bit more recharge, however, I could probably live without it. But to get Hasten, I'd need to drop a whole power pool.
Uhm what's happening here? Did the scrapper forum suddenly got invated by the defenders or what? 
Originally Posted by Megajoule
We're being invaded. Again. This time, instead of aliens, zombies, or eyeballs with teeth, it's the marching band.
I'm trying to decide how I want to build out my BS scrapper, and after doing some research on Katana and BS scrapper builds I started scratching my head.
Katana builds seem to favor Gamblers Cut, the Katana version of Slash, over the Sting of the Wasp, or the Katana version of Hack. When I look at BS builds Hack is taken nearly every time no questions asked.
So my question is this, if I intend to load an attack with the Hecatomb and Achilles Heel procs would I be better off using Slash over Hack? I mean it's working for the Katana folks, right?