All Ideas for AVs

Okay, this thread, for starters, is inspired by this thread in the General forums.
It's basically given some thought into the idea that perhaps a revision on the AV system could be considered.
As such this thread will be including suggestions and open to suggestions, including 'nay'-saying.

But for starters, I'd like to point out some of the numbers looked over from Paragon Wiki:
The average boss at as high as level 55 has 2,770 points of HP, the next step up, the Elite boss who, at the same level, has possesses double that number. Fair enough.
But an AV of the 55th level has more than five times the HP of the Elite Boss at 31,285 hit points, this exponential boon in HP can be seen even as low down the scale as level one with 864 points of HP to the EB's 180 and by as low as level 13, they literally will have more HP than a Tanker could ever hope to have.

But why do I bring up HP? Because the argument in the linked thread is that, often, pounding endlessly on the same sack of HP for long periods of time with no variation gets both tedious and tiresome. So, here are my own suggestions for this side of the problem as well as a possible idea to make AV fights a bit more interesting...

1. Increasing debuffs as HP declines: While not a direct HP fixer, I imagined that perhaps as you get an AV down in HP, say starting at the 60% mark, perhaps (thinking along the lines of a bizzaro SR passives), an AV begins to suffer from a building Regen, Res, and Def debuff. This could give a good sense that they're "wearing down" while you're just winding up for the finishing blow and also make an AV hitting their tier nine armor really seem like a "giving this my last shot my all."

On the more extreme side of things we have:

2. AV ATs: Basically have AVs function more like the AT their supposed to be or a close approximation of, complete with some of the functions of their inherent powers while at the same time reducing their HP to something closer to said AT (of course with some buff that scales up based on team size). Like having Ghost Widow need to hit domination, or Synapse use defiance to keep attacking even when held, or Black Scorpion beginning fights hitting only as hard as an Lt. but scaling up to more painful levels of damage as the fight continues.
We can already see this in some AVs, mostly Mako, really, and the down side is certain AVs having inherent powers and so forth that would either detriment them, or simply have no use in a fight. (Positron suddenly realizes how weak Vigilance really is...)
There's also certain AVs that were never designed with an AT in mind, like Dr. Vazhiklok, or Nemesis, and in the end, many AV/Hero class enemies would need to have their powers extensively looked at.

These are just a few possible ideas, and probably the worst we'll see in this thread.

I look forward to seeing everyone else's own opinions and ideas in this thread.
-Azure

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.

I want to see a "true mastermind" of an AV. The way I envision it is the AV has 100 or 500 or 1000 hit points, but is completely invulnerable to attack. Instead, he loses HP as his henchmen are defeated. It could be scaling somehow, that minions defeated make him lose 1 hit point, while LTs make him lose 2 and bosses make him lose 4, or something like that.

The point is you don't focus on defeating him, but you still have to deal with his attacks and his henchmen.

Hmm the trouble is that while WoW style AV encounters would spice things up, we lack the ridged holy trinty scheme or the programming to make things work to an amazing degree.

Hakkar the blood god was an interesting fight because in order to kill him before his enraged timer came along, everyone had to stand in this poison cloud created from the death of basic enemy when he did his blood siphon attack, of course this meant that instead of healing he recieved 25 times the damage of the poison and his health would drop significantly. I don't think we actually have the programming in place to do something like that.

Or there was the Drakki boss kite, where a hunter (normally the best choice) or other ranged damage dealer would pull the boss away from his two bodyguards and proceed to lead him on a Benny Hill style run around the dungeon while the rest of the party killed the two bodyguards.

Sadly due to the rooting of all attack powers, kiting a boss is a no-no.

I'm not sure whether we've got the coding available to make AVs that aren't just cheap shotting big bags of hitpoints.

I think that Romulus at the end of the ITF is an excellent example of a more strategic AV. He can be handled in several ways, and poses a different kind of threat depending on what you bring to the table, because while he himself is a fairly standard AV his three support Nicti complicate things considerably. I'd like to see more encounters which have multiple paths to resolution, where the path you take depends on the team you bring. To that end, it's not only OK but encouraged that AVs should break some rules. AVs do not need an enormous amount of HP, but for designing strategic encounters it's important that they have enough HP or other defenses that their unique mechanics are difficult to circumvent just by burning them down quickly. "Invincible until conditions are satisfied" is one way to require a strategy, but as Romulus shows it's not the only way.

What about an AV that circumvents taunt mechanics in some way? The Thorn Tree does this by virtue of being untargetable until certain conditions are met, but if I recall correctly there are apparently plenty of unexplored options available in the threat algorithm. Healing powers or buffs could generate threat. Mezzes or debuffs could. Taunt could have its threat multiplier ignored. Heck, a team of AV enemies could include a character who has Taunt, turning the tank-and-spank methodology back on the team. Or an AV could periodically reset its aggro queue (with some visual effect), so the next person who hits it gets nailed. Or it could have one attack that it reserves for support characters - rather than one that kills outright, what if it grants a debuff aura or reduces buff effectiveness or just knocks the target way the heck back? What if the AV places an effect on the prime aggro target such that anyone who heals him is damaged for the same amount? Or a power that it uses to reverse effects, so that attacks become heals, heals deal damage, mezzes grant resistance, buffs become debuffs, and vice versa?

Lots of possibilities.

I think he was referring to WoW's attack rooting.

LEGION OF VALOR - Be a part of the Legend!

Hmm not really, all the attacks in city of heroes do not allow movement while the attack animation plays. You are rooted to the spot as soon as you fire off an attack.

In WoW a hunter can fire off Arcane shot and Serpent sting without stopping, infact one of the hunter epic quests requires you to kite for a massive distance. You'd keep running forward, spin using mouselook in midair when you jumped, fire off the shot, spin back around and land all the while keeping forward momentum...yes it's as complicated as it sounds..try keeping it up for 5 minutes or more.

Although I don't have particular ideas regarding how to "improve" AV fights, the idea of AVs scaling up in power based on team-size appeals to me. One of the big draws to this game as opposed to other MMOs is that you don't need a particular team mix OR a maximum team size. Got 8 people online, group up and go. Only can find 5 people, hey, still good to go. Want to solo, go for it. Team Size is not a limiting factor. Try to do a Heroic dungeon in WoW with only 4 people. Good Luck, unless you are so far above the level of the Dungeon that the rewards are not even worth the time spent.

Additionally, I would be opposed to anything which caused team make-up to be MORE important than it currently is. Being as how my main is a support character, you might figure that this would appeal to me and make my Hero more "in-demand", but I really like how the game is flexible in team make-up. Anyone that has played the original "Everquest" knows what it was like waiting around in the Nexus trying to recruit an Enchanter, or a Cleric. No Thanks! Definitely do not want that.