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Bat wings, Cherub wings, Bone, Burned, Tech - think I'm missing one. That +Salvage +little bit of INF = wings at level 1.
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Originally Posted by McBoo
Being a long time vet I have no way of verifying this but can a new player purchase a wings recipe from WW or the BM and use them right away?
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That is only true up to 72 months. |
Originally Posted by Judgement_Dave
So if it was implemented today and I got my 60month original reward today, then in 3 months time I'd get the 63month reward from the original list and I'd also get the 3month reward from the new list.
Someone else starting today would get the 3month reward from each list in 3 months time. Is that the correct interpretation? |
Figuring that the system goes in today; a 72 month vet will only receive a veteran reward from the new list or tier in 3 months time while a new player would receive the original 3 month vet reward plus the vet reward form the new list or tier. This would mean that in 6 years time 6 year vets and 12 year vets would have the same rewards.
>
"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
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Indeed which is why I said:|
Originally Posted by McBoo
That is only true up to 72 months.
Figuring that the system goes in today; a 72 month vet will only receive a veteran reward from the new list or tier in 3 months time while a new player would receive the original 3 month vet reward plus the vet reward form the new list or tier. This would mean that in 6 years time 6 year vets and 12 year vets would have the same rewards. > |
Though I'd keep the badges attached to the original and possibly the odd annual reward - i.e. I'd still add badges for things like 90month vet.
Though I realised I left it as annual - I had been thinking annual and possibly even 'significant number to people in general' - like 75 months, 100 months etc
So in 6 years time, the 12 year vet (at 144 months) would also have their 75, 100, 125, 84, 96, 108, 120, 132 and 144 month rewards - and could be looking forward to their 150 month...
But it would release devs from trying to think up 4 rewards a year that are sorta worthwhile, sorta-not-overpowered, sorta-meh. Just give annual (or annual + significant numbers) reward that is a little more special... and keep the bulk of minor QoL temps and costume pieces available to a wider audience (so they get used/appreciated by more).
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Originally Posted by Decorum
This again? /unsigned. Veteran Rewards is not broken and in no need of fixing.
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/sarcasm
I think it was supposed to be out yesterday but the holiday delayed this week's thread by a day.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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They can also get Valkyrie Wings at level 1 if the buy the Mac Edition or Mack special item pack.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Bat wings, Cherub wings, Bone, Burned, Tech - think I'm missing one. That +Salvage +little bit of INF = wings at level 1.
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This sounds nice because I do find some of the veteran rewards less than useful but it also could be a precursor to an online store. Folks will want the ability to pay money to buy points to purchase rewards and we're right back to selling vet rewards.|
Originally Posted by Judgement_Dave
I've always thought that the vets rewards would have been better as a points system where you can buy the reward you want. Potentially allocating different costs to some things (e.g. perma-temp powers should cost more than greek letters imo) and possibly different points gained for some milestones.
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>
"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
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Your argument is predicated on the presumption that people are being left out. They are not. They are gaining the rewards at exactly the same rate as the veterans did years ago.|
Originally Posted by Mad_Cow_Milk
I had two ideas to help the coming new players with the release of Going Rogue. A similar discussion happened in another thread which got me thinking on these.
1. Pay to Catch Up: For every 3 months they have been a member, they may pay another $10.00 (Or what ever the devs/marketing decide) to gain another 3 months advancement in their veteran rewards alone. They would probably not gain any spare time, and this would probably exclude any name changes, bonus slots, and respecifications (again up to the devs). The actual Veterans would be still getting these things for no additional cost, rewarding them still more, while this would keep people from just JUMPING up to full veteran at a cost. 2. New Veteran System: We will have a secondary system start up, call it "Tier Two Veteran Rewards" People joining when this starts will start at square one, and also gain the original veteran rewards; however the current veteran system will stop progressing. This should probably be done every few years, creating a new tier of vet advancement. As things progress there will be progressively greater reason to start playing City of X, and stick around, while the current older veterans are still rewarded. 3. Somehow combine the two, by paying per 3 months in all three tiers, or by per 3 months of one tier, for additional veteran advancement. So ether of these systems would help improve the money revenue and membership of City of X, and help the coming members not feel completely left out and with out recourse for not being here from the start. |
The system isn't broken, and in fact is working exactly as it was designed half a decade ago. There is no need to fix it, especially with your two solutions listed above.
@TURGENEV - Freedom Server / IRON / B.A.N.E / HORDE
Turg Fiction: Ghost in the Machine Acts III & IV coming 2012!
Turg Fiction: IX is now LIVE on Architect Entertainment!
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They're getting them faster now. We had to wait 27 months to get the 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18, 21, and 24 months vet rewards.
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Originally Posted by Turgenev
Your argument is predicated on the presumption that people are being left out. They are not. They are gaining the rewards at exactly the same rate as the veterans did years ago.
The system isn't broken, and in fact is working exactly as it was designed half a decade ago. There is no need to fix it, especially with your two solutions listed above. |
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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A salient point, SwellGuy.
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Originally Posted by SwellGuy
They're getting them faster now. We had to wait 27 months to get the 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18, 21, and 24 months vet rewards.
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@TURGENEV - Freedom Server / IRON / B.A.N.E / HORDE
Turg Fiction: Ghost in the Machine Acts III & IV coming 2012!
Turg Fiction: IX is now LIVE on Architect Entertainment!
Gah.
Again? Really? This needs to be brought up yet again?!?
Veteran rewards are in NO WAY WHATSOEVER tied to how much money you have paid. They are tied to how long you have been playing the game.
You get the 60 month veteran reward for playing for 60 months. If you have not played for 60 months, then you have not yet done the thing the reward is for.
You wouldn't put someone in prison for a crime they haven't committed yet, would you? Of course not, that wouldn't be fair. If someone buys a gun and a ski mask you can't put him in prison for armed robbery, because the offense hasn't happened yet.
Rewarding someone for something they haven't done yet is exactly the same as punishing them for something they haven't done yet. It is not fair in either case.
Currently, veteran rewards are ONLY reward we have that cannot be gamed or exploited to receive faster. They are perfectly fair. If you want the 60 month reward, play for 5 years and you will get it, and you can be assured that everyone else who has that reward waited for 5 years too. No one gets the rewards early just because they can afford to plunk down a sum of cash.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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That was my reading of the suggestion, and I also like it. It's less "lemme haev yur vet rewardz nao!" and more "Let's make the vet system better!"
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Originally Posted by Judgement_Dave
I'm not entirely certain that I'm reading this correctly, but I think that you're saying to have two sets of rewards rewards running alongside each other... the original one that counts time from c.6 years ago and a new one that just counts time from whenever it's implemented. The original list would still work, but not have any new rewards added to it.
So if it was implemented today and I got my 60month original reward today, then in 3 months time I'd get the 63month reward from the original list and I'd also get the 3month reward from the new list. Someone else starting today would get the 3month reward from each list in 3 months time. Is that the correct interpretation? If that is what you mean, then it's not actually that bad an idea. Though I'd keep the badges attached to the original and possibly the odd annual reward - i.e. I'd still add badges for things like 90month vet. It could even make sense from a dev-time allocation standpoint: As time goes on the number of people who've been here fully subbed from day 1 will be going down (as people leave or 'rest' their sub). So the number of people getting the new benefits/rewards when they are available (or soon after) is decreasing, meaning that devtime put into them is effectively becoming less efficiently used. But if a second stream of rewards were started from now then virtually every current player would benefit from any devtime spent on the 3 month reward when it went 'live' in 3 months time. |
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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It's also totally disregarding things like, y'know, 'Free Issues' and stuff? It works great, if you treat it like the Devs could do infinite vet rewards without any impact on other stuff.|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
That was my reading of the suggestion, and I also like it. It's less "lemme haev yur vet rewardz nao!" and more "Let's make the vet system better!"
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(Italics for exmphasis only
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Originally Posted by Mad_Cow_Milk
Oh god people, I am trying to help City of Heroes in general. If anything cascading rewards would severely amplify continual membership.
Did any of you read them entirely, just checking? Or did you just read the tittle and have a knee jerk reaction. |
This would not help.
Sure, you're bringing in money. But you're also allowing people to BUY vet status in the game. BIG FRICKING NONO! You're also telling the vets who earned their rewards LEGITIMATELY that their loyalty was only worth a couple bucks a month.
No.
NO.
HELL [BLEEP!]ING NO!
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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/agree with this
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Originally Posted by Liz Bathory
Veteran rewards is just what it is.. a veteran reward. A reward for having your account active for x number of months. No short cuts should apply EVER!!!
If such a thing would be implemented THAT would be the time the system would be broken! If you want the vet rewards... keep youre account active... No other way... |
Spines/ D A lvl 50 Scrap, stone/wm lvl 50 tank, Kat/reg lvl 50 Scrap
Grav/Kin lvl 50 Cont, Fire/Enegry lvl 50 Blast
Warshade lvl 50, PB lvl 39, nightwidow lvl 50, crab lvl 42
plant/thorns lvl 50 dom, ice/fire lvl 40 dom, grav/nrg lvl 41 dom
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Giving a bunch of newbs veteran awards they did NOT earn, simply because they doled out extra cash for them is not the way to do it.|
Originally Posted by Mad_Cow_Milk
The idea is to help attract new players and get them to keep it around, that way the game stays longer.
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| Adding one more incentive to new players can't possibly be a bad thing now can it? |
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| Speaking from the point of a relatively new returner's point of view, I have the perspective of what an entirely new member would be looking at. Option 2 does nothing but grant an additional incentive for them to join and stick around. |
No.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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CoH has been running over 6 years. Everquest has been running 10. No "end" is in sight.|
Originally Posted by Mad_Cow_Milk
The Vet rewards are an incentive for sticking around. However when you look at the massive amount of years you have to get to what-ever point, and that you will never catch up, this can be even a counter-incentive.
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Will a newb like you ever pick up 6+ years of vet awards? Depends on how long you stick with the game.
Vet awards aren't the incentive for playing. Content is the incentive. The vet awards are nice, but relatively unimportant additions. But they're still something that needs to be gained by continuous subscriber term.
Simply because some people have the attention span of a gnat and cannot envision playing this game for 5-6 years does not mean they're entitled to get stuff others have earned, simply because they can dole out extra cash.
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| While if they re-start a different tier of veteran rewards, they are getting double, eventually triple, or hopefully one day even quadrupedal the benefits per three months. Making a huge incentive for staying, ensuring that the game will be around for years to come. |
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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This, more than anything. Frankly, if having swag is your deciding incentive to staying, then I'll go as far as to say, "I don't want you here." I'd rather lure you back with Praetoria, Incarnates, improved PVE/PVP and Architect 2.0 rather than with "o look u got sands of mu lololol".
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Vet awards aren't the incentive for playing. Content is the incentive. The vet awards are nice, but relatively unimportant additions. But they're still something that needs to be gained by continuous subscriber term.
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@TURGENEV - Freedom Server / IRON / B.A.N.E / HORDE
Turg Fiction: Ghost in the Machine Acts III & IV coming 2012!
Turg Fiction: IX is now LIVE on Architect Entertainment!
They (the community) wont listen OP. Won't happen. Vet rewards should not have existed in the first place, at least in their current form. The wings vet reward however is awesome. Why? Because everyone in the game has access to at least getting wings of some kind. If the 2004 vets had their way, no one but themselves would be allowed to have any wings. It's human nature, you want to stand out and be "special." If I had 04 veterancy and not taken breaks from the game, I'd be right with them. Hey, at least I admit it
How combat-less pets should have been:
Let the vets enjoy exclusive access for 1-3 months, then make them unlockable for everyone else, even if it meant visiting a vendor and paying a billion+ inf for them, per pet per character. For the vets they would always be free of charge though, hence preserving the "reward." Hell, let the vets even preserve 1-2 pet models exclusive to them only. Just give other players the option of even having a combat-less pet without having to wait 3 years for it
It isn't about money, it never HAS been about money.
It's about the developers doing something nice for the players that believed in the game enough be loyal to it, when they could have played something else any time they wanted.
It's not how much money you've given them they are rewarding you for. What you get for the money you give them is the game itself.
They are rewarding you for your loyalty to their game over other choices you have available to you.
Allowing brand new players to BUY the reward they gave out for being loyal would cheapen that loyalty a great deal. It would show the people who have been playing for a significant length of time that their loyalty means less to the devs than a quick buck, which is NOT a good formula to ensure future loyalty from those people. A large part of the reason there are so many loyal players in the first place is that the dves have shown over the years that they actually CARE about their players. Selling loyalty- based rewards to people that haven't earned them would undermine that.
Plunking down money for something does not show loyalty, it shows that you have a credit card and some disposable income, nothing more.
But I suppose I can't expect the "I WANT IT NAO!!!" people to understand that the devs don't care how much they are willing to spend on buying something, because it isn't for sale.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
I agree with rewarding veteran players. I simply feel a few of them are a little overboard and unfair. Ninja Run for example, would have been an awful veteran-only ability and thankfully the devs didn't do that, but they have done other things that IMO they shouldn't have.
The wings solution was perfect. Vets get a couple of unique wing models available only to them, but everyone has at least the chance to have wings of some kind. Pets are bad because other players have zero ability whatsoever so to get any combatless pets. Let the vets keep a handful of unique models, but let us all craft or otherwise obtain at least a few kinds. That's all I'm requesting. So I guess I am not asking what the OP is...
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Hi, I'm Basilisk. I'm an "04 Vet", as you put it, and I support the idea of putting systems in the game to allow new players to access vet rewards. I do not, however, support ignorant jerks like you who seem to think there is some global conspiracy against you. Let's think before we generalize, shall we?|
Originally Posted by Stratos
If the 2004 vets had their way, no one but themselves would be allowed to have any wings. It's human nature, you want to stand out and be "special." If I had 04 veterancy and not taken breaks from the game, I'd be right with them. Hey, at least I admit it
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That being said, I don't like the idea of the vet rewards simply being handed out through a pay system. That just encourages a different type of stratification people with money vs. people without. What I would like to see is for the various costume rewards to be made available through the invention system. The vets then have the advantage of being able to access them for free at character creation, but they are nonetheless accessible to whoever needs wings or a trenchcoat to fill in their character concept. The other abilities could be made into temp powers, which cannot be crafted if you already have the vet one.
As far as City Traveller goes, I don't know how that could work with the invention system. Personally, I would be fine with simply opening the travel pools to everyone and being done with it, but I doubt the same goes for everyone. My enjoyment of a feature is not predicated on the fact that other people don't have them.
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Sartre once said, "Hell is other people." What does that make an MMO?
/unsigned
However, I wouldn't mind seeing all of the vet powers as craftable temporary powers, that way new players could still get all the goodies that vets have, but they would have to work to get them. Vets just get them all free at lvl 1. Seeing a Reveal power that costs a Positronic Matrix to craft for 10 uses is a handy influence sink and a real way of separating the vets from the new arrivals while still allowing serious new players to get some of the goodies that make the game fun for us vets.
Never argue with stupid people. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
@vanda1 and @nakoa2
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This is patently false and a pretty ugly straw man, at that. Please do not insult people's intelligence in the future.|
Originally Posted by Stratos
If the 2004 vets had their way, no one but themselves would be allowed to have any wings. It's human nature, you want to stand out and be "special."
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*edit*
I'm a 69 month veteran and I still highly disagree with the concept of veteran rewards. I realise the point is to reward people for staying with the game longer, but I'm not too keen on the concept of NOT rewarding people who have NOT been with the game longer. I've never drawn satisfaction from other people NOT having stuff I do.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Let em buy the vet rewards at an equal cost
If they wanna shell out 1000+ $/ on one go to get a few trifles in game like a buff pet which is useless and gets killed every 2 seconds, a couple of respecs, icon discount etc.
let em...
Just rename the badges to "I'm an idiot with too much money" for each one.
Then the rest of us can just point and laugh at them.
You can polish a pile of crap all you want
Yes I did actually.
/jpowerranger for all the reasons stated above.