Of Respecs and IO Sets...One possibility
By
BrandX,
Posted on: 2010-05-24 18:04 in Suggestions and Ideas
I like your idea....it's definately a fresh take on a pretty old complaint.
I do offer this: Best idea I have heard is finally get rid of the enhancement tray and make it a tab in the salvage window....rename the salvage window something more general and make it an all encompassing "purse". Make the size of the enhancement tab increase with level and maybe even make it expandable through accomplishment/achievement.
we are several issues past a 10 enhancement limit being even remotely practical.
Lach
No.
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Originally Posted by je_saist
never going to happen.
The developers have been very clear that the only effective influence sink in the game are enhancements. They have also been very clear that they consider giving us 10 slots to save enhancements during respecs is generous. |
We have the test server that respec builds can be tested with.
What it still runs against is the Dev comment that keeping 10 enhancements was generous during a respec. They haven't said or done anything to indicate that this attitude has changed at all.
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I disagree with this completely. I have never needed more than 10 slots.
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Originally Posted by Lachlin
we are several issues past a 10 enhancement limit being even remotely practical.
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There's a little pop up the very first time you slot an enhancement... it says that once slotted it's there for good. You seem to be failing to understand this is WAI.
Ahh, that time of the month 
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Never mind respecs, I've needed more than 10 slots just doing a mission. |
Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
I disagree with this completely. I have never needed more than 10 slots.
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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Yep.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Ahh, that time of the month
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That doesn't mean it can't change. But more importantly, other than just agreeing with an old dev statement just to agree with it, I haven't heard one argument on why something like this is a bad idea or how it would be bad for the game.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
What it still runs against is the Dev comment that keeping 10 enhancements was generous during a respec. They haven't said or done anything to indicate that this attitude has changed at all.
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edit: Also, /signed. This should be fixed(yes, I said fixed because I see it as broken), just like the email system was finally fixed in Issue 17.
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I'll be clear. I don't care one way or the other. Then again, I've got enough freespecs, vetspecs, etc. that I could probably strip a character of anything valuable fairly easily if I wanted to. |
Originally Posted by MunkiLord
That doesn't mean it can't change. But more importantly, other than just agreeing with an old dev statement just to agree with it, I haven't heard one argument on why something like this is a bad idea or how it would be bad for the game.
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Yes, the old statement "doesn't mean it can't change," but it's the only position we've seen from them on it and it plants it pretty firmly in the same category as total respecs (which we've gotten a definite "no, it will not happen" on.)
I'll /sign this....
But if it's 'easier' for the devs just to allow us to use the email functionality during a respec it would be at least a little bit better.
But yes I'm all for another way of either just 'respec'ing' just 1 or 2 enhancement slots or something along those lines.
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The devs don't have to give us a reason why this is a bad idea. If they don't want to do it they won't.
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Originally Posted by MunkiLord
That doesn't mean it can't change. But more importantly, other than just agreeing with an old dev statement just to agree with it, I haven't heard one argument on why something like this is a bad idea or how it would be bad for the game.
edit: Also, /signed. This should be fixed(yes, I said fixed because I see it as broken), just like the email system was finally fixed in Issue 17. |
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I agree they don't have to, I'm not even saying they should explain the reasoning. In fact, I wasn't commenting about the devs in the post you quoted at all. So I don't get how your reply to my post even makes sense.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
The devs don't have to give us a reason why this is a bad idea. If they don't want to do it they won't.
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I was commenting on the fact that posters reject these ideas simply because a dev has said no in the past, not because anybody is actually against the idea itself.
Before the email changes and and power customization were implemented, many posters rejected those ideas simply because of past dev comments. Both of those features eventually made it in the game.
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Well, power customization was a case of "We'd like to do this, but it's too difficult because we don't have the manpower" |
Originally Posted by MunkiLord
Before the email changes and and power customization were implemented, many posters rejected those ideas simply because of past dev comments. Both of those features eventually made it in the game. |
That changed when they DID have the manpower to do it.
I don't recall ever having seen a dev outright say "NO" to the email idea, so from my perspective there isn't any evidence that they were ever against it in the first place. They just didn't do it for a long time, so I can only assume there were coding issues preventing it that they have since solved.
The full respec I think is a bad idea for my OWN reasons. The fact that the devs happen to agree with my stance is pure coincidence. If you could respec powersets or entire ATs you could start as something easy to level and switch to a late-blooming set later on when you reach an appropriate level. (like leveling a Willpower tank and switching to Stone after you get access to Granite Armor, or leveling as a Katana/Willpower scrapper and switching to Electric/Shield at 50 so you can farm with it)
As far as enhancements go, they have always been intended to be permanent. The only reason I would ever completely strip a character is if I intended to delete it, in which case I wouldn't care that I had to burn multiple respecs to do it. It's not like I can transfer those respecs to another character anyway.
The devs haven't done anything to prevent us from stripping a character, it just takes a lot of work and multiple respecs to do it. They don't seem to see any reason to make something we can already do any easier on us, especially since they never really intended us to be doing it in the first place.
As far as any of us is aware, they haven't changed their stance that 10 enhancements is the most we will ever be allowed to retain from a respec, and I don't see any compelling reason why they should.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
If this ever comes to pass, that you can remove >10 items in a respec, I fully expect there to be 'bind on equip' or 'bind on pickup' for some items.
Items have to be taken out of free circulation somehow. Right now I think we have the best system, that there is a hassle involved, but if you really want to strip the valuables you can.
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*sigh*|
Originally Posted by MunkiLord
I agree they don't have to, I'm not even saying they should explain the reasoning. In fact, I wasn't commenting about the devs in the post you quoted at all. So I don't get how your reply to my post even makes sense.
I was commenting on the fact that posters reject these ideas simply because a dev has said no in the past, not because anybody is actually against the idea itself. Before the email changes and and power customization were implemented, many posters rejected those ideas simply because of past dev comments. Both of those features eventually made it in the game. |
No, the reason power customization (specifically, as I don't recall any dev statements re: emailing items) was continually replied to with a "Don't hold your breath" was because the devs had stated it was too much work for their (at the time) 15 person staff. They never said "No" flat out to it. They rarely say just a flat out "no."
Power customization, for instance, was replied to with "Sure, we could do it. You'd get nothing else for that year because of the work it would entail, though."
This, however, we have a direct statement from Positron which says "You're lucky we let you keep ten you don't reslot." Just like we have a direct "No" to respeccing to different ATs/powersets on the same character. The position given is different. Trying to paint them the same way is either lacking information (if done without knowing which is which) or simply disingenuous. I, and several others here, do try to let people know which is which if responding to an idea which we have a dev response on record for.
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Originally Posted by MunkiLord
I agree they don't have to, I'm not even saying they should explain the reasoning. In fact, I wasn't commenting about the devs in the post you quoted at all. So I don't get how your reply to my post even makes sense.
I was commenting on the fact that posters reject these ideas simply because a dev has said no in the past, not because anybody is actually against the idea itself. Before the email changes and and power customization were implemented, many posters rejected those ideas simply because of past dev comments. Both of those features eventually made it in the game. |
Well you said many of us agree with old dev statements just to agree with them. That's not entirely true. Some people are just tired of seeing the same dead horse get trotted out. Others are simply providing the OP with the only official statement we've been given on the subject by the devs.
And while yes there are some people that simply reject ideas for the reason you stated, there are just as many people that reject any post that isn't agreeing with their suggestion no matter how obvious the flaws are. They don't care how bad their idea is, they want what they want and nothing will change their mind.
I obviously did a poor job communicating my point, because the responses don't actually address what I'm saying. Which is fine, that is my fault. I'm just gonna concede this since I don't feel like digging through 100+ pages of the S&I forum for an example to support what I'm saying.
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I know I've said I thought the email feature was a minor QoL and I thought the devs should work on more important issues.
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Originally Posted by MunkiLord
I obviously did a poor job communicating my point, because the responses don't actually address what I'm saying. Which is fine, that is my fault. I'm just gonna concede this since I don't feel like digging through 100+ pages of the S&I forum for an example to support what I'm saying.
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Yeah. They don't want you to "save" all the IOs from a character. They want IOs to use up time and influence; they exist as a goal you can choose to spend effort on, but they are consumables.
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Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
Items have to be taken out of free circulation somehow..
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If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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Could be as easy as the posters agreeing. There needs to be an influence sink somewhere, and this is a good one.
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Originally Posted by MunkiLord
I agree they don't have to, I'm not even saying they should explain the reasoning. In fact, I wasn't commenting about the devs in the post you quoted at all. So I don't get how your reply to my post even makes sense.
I was commenting on the fact that posters reject these ideas simply because a dev has said no in the past, not because anybody is actually against the idea itself. Before the email changes and and power customization were implemented, many posters rejected those ideas simply because of past dev comments. Both of those features eventually made it in the game. |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Theres been a lot of haggling about what the developers said or what was their intent. I dont see that as being overly relevant. They have one real job: run a successful MMORPG, and that, in part, requires that they listen to their customers.
Im one customer who has an idea. Heres what this prespec would allow me to do
I dont build IO sets before level 35. Their power and set bonuses arent as good as 36-50 IOs, and constructing IO sets is expensive and time consuming. If I had a prespec, I would construct level 10-34 IO sets because I could save them when I wanted to upgrade to superior sets. Im not going to waste my resources in the earlier levels by constructing sets I know Im going to want to replace later and be glad of it because it is some developers idea of being generous.
As it stands, I believe most players dont construct many IO sets below level 30 for that very reason: theres currently no easy way of saving low level IO sets without burning multiple respecs. And really, what is the purpose of a respect
to clear out IO sets
or change powers, slots and enhancements to improve a character? Id rather not waste multiple respecs trying to save a number of IO sets.
Global: @FuzzyOne
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And they do. Running a successful MMO - or any other business - does not, however, mean "adopt wholesale anything that a customer says as the greatest idea EVAR and implement it." |
Originally Posted by FuzzyOne
Theres been a lot of haggling about what the developers said or what was their intent. I dont see that as being overly relevant. They have one real job: run a successful MMORPG, and that, in part, requires that they listen to their customers.
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Having the devs say "No, absolutely not" is exceptionally relevant, as it's their product.
I have this idea for a prespec so that players can keep more than 10 currently crafted IOs without loosing them in a respec.
The prespec could be earned like a respec (veteran reward, random recipe drop, free with a certain issue), but operate in a different fashion. The player could craft the prespec which would put a prespec toggle button in his/her power tray. When the player activates the prespec, he/she goes into a prespec mode. The player can stay in the prespec mode until he/she deactivates the prespec toggle. Once deactivated, the toggle power goes away like a temporary power that has expired all its uses. While in the prespec mode...
All character powers are deactivated, except perhaps travel powers.
The player can remove IOs/enhancements from power slots and store them in the enhancement tray.
Once a power slot is emptied, it cannot be filled while in prespec mode.
Then the player can turn off the enhancement screen and do what he/she needs to do: store IOs/enhancements in base storage, go to Wentworths, trade them to other players, or email them.
The player can go back and forth between his/her enhancement screen and storing/selling actions until all IOs/enhancements have been removed and/or dealt with.
When finished, he/she can deactivate the prespec mode and all powers return. Then, the player can either respec the character or acquire and slot different IOs/enhancements through the enhancement tray.
Global: @FuzzyOne
Find me playing these servers: Champion, Justice, Freedom, Virtue and Pinnacle