I think your idea is respectable in theory, but without PvP, how would full-access from both factions make sense?
I want to see your idea fleshed out more.
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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
This entire post should receive some kind of award for being both hysterical and fantastic.
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This continues to be my primary concern with these sorts of ideas. There's no logical reason to not have PVP, but introducing PVP is an equally bad idea.|
Originally Posted by RedSwitchblade
I think your idea is respectable in theory, but without PvP, how would full-access from both factions make sense?
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Also, I'm not a fan of trying to recycle heroside content into villain content. I really want something original and new for villains.
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Content in which sense? Contacts and arcs there would be original; admittedly the zone wouldn't (I guess this is similar to calls to open up the Shadow Shard).|
Originally Posted by IanTheM1
This continues to be my primary concern with these sorts of ideas. There's no logical reason to not have PVP, but introducing PVP is an equally bad idea.
Also, I'm not a fan of trying to recycle heroside content into villain content. I really want something original and new for villains. |
I don't know how it would be technically implemented, but then I don't know how GR will be either. But it seems as though Rogues are already going to have access to hero zones. Do they have to adhere to hero rules while there (can attack clockwork, vahz; can't attack PPD, Longbow)? Could this be extended in this case to pure villains (though there there would be teaming ramifications)?
Other than that, I'm thinking of a setup more like Cimerora, without the ITF. No PvP, but side-specific contacts and arcs (Airlia vs Daedalus). Faultline seemed like a natural zone for this considering Arachnos already has a foothold there.
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/this. And really.... it doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense, IMHO. Arachnos is trying not to be noticed. Bringing in a bunch of "Destined ones" in that case would be like trying to sneak a full armored division with air support down main street at high noon.
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Originally Posted by IanTheM1
This continues to be my primary concern with these sorts of ideas. There's no logical reason to not have PVP, but introducing PVP is an equally bad idea.
Also, I'm not a fan of trying to recycle heroside content into villain content. I really want something original and new for villains. |
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Except that there's not really much you can do with Faultline except add what would amount to villain versions of the hero arcs. You'd naturally be using the same maps, and there would be similar goals, since Arachnos' purpose in Faultline is singular: Find the Psychochronometron.|
Originally Posted by gec72
Content in which sense? Contacts and arcs there would be original; admittedly the zone wouldn't (I guess this is similar to calls to open up the Shadow Shard).
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| I don't know how it would be technically implemented, but then I don't know how GR will be either. But it seems as though Rogues are already going to have access to hero zones. Do they have to adhere to hero rules while there (can attack clockwork, vahz; can't attack PPD, Longbow)? Could this be extended in this case to pure villains (though there there would be teaming ramifications)? |
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Hm. I always wanted villains to be able to travel to Paragon AS villains, and do wickedness there. The obvious problem is that PvP in PvE zones would be disastrous..and in theory, there's no way a villain with wits would show her/his face in public when literally hundreds of heroes are about.
As such, why not 'force' the villain into a disguise? As soon as they enter a city zone of the wrong faction, they activate either a cloaking device or disguise. (Which supresses their powers.)
I'd lean towards the disguise, making them appear as civilian, cops, etc. The only trick, then, is travel powers. It's one thing for a villain to look just like a civilian or NPC...it's another for them to superspeed away.
The cloaking device would mean the villain would stay invisible...however this undermines Paragon/heroes, especially when the 'invisible' villain goes for a dance under Atlas, chatting all the time.
The OTHER option would be to 'force' them into a random new NPC form, a "Hero disguise." These would put the villain into one of many ultra-cheesy hero/costumes with corresponding cheesy names, ("Super Heroic," "Captain Clean" "H.U.G.S." "Miss Kindness," etc.) with correspondingly over-the top bio's when the villain is clicked for info. ("I love to save puppies! Your cash is safe with me!" "I stake out banks to make sure that no villain comes near them! Especially not <$villain'srealname!> ")
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I guess you have a good point there, and I don't guess a red-side arc could allow you to actually get the PCM. There might be some ability to flesh out dealings/backstory involving Sands, Nocturne, the Sky Raiders, Doc Delilah though.|
Originally Posted by IanTheM1
Except that there's not really much you can do with Faultline except add what would amount to villain versions of the hero arcs. You'd naturally be using the same maps, and there would be similar goals, since Arachnos' purpose in Faultline is singular: Find the Psychochronometron.
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| Rogues will only be there because they've started acting heroic. According to HeroCon info, Rogues can't actually start heroside missions (due to lack of trust), but can participate in them and otherwise act like a hero would (sans the market). |
Maybe they can't completely open things up, but I guess I'd like to see some other options. There could be some opportunity for action for roguish types to find action while in Paragon; there could be some opportunities for vigilantes to take matters into their own hands within the Rogue Isles. Guess I just have to wait and see what GR brings.
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I've said it many times, I would <3 an event similar to the rikti event or zombie event where pve zones became warzones and villains could lead an assault against heroes if they breech the war walls...|
Originally Posted by Seldom
Hm. I always wanted villains to be able to travel to Paragon AS villains, and do wickedness there. The obvious problem is that PvP in PvE zones would be disastrous..and in theory, there's no way a villain with wits would show her/his face in public when literally hundreds of heroes are about.
As such, why not 'force' the villain into a disguise? As soon as they enter a city zone of the wrong faction, they activate either a cloaking device or disguise. (Which supresses their powers.) I'd lean towards the disguise, making them appear as civilian, cops, etc. The only trick, then, is travel powers. It's one thing for a villain to look just like a civilian or NPC...it's another for them to superspeed away. The cloaking device would mean the villain would stay invisible...however this undermines Paragon/heroes, especially when the 'invisible' villain goes for a dance under Atlas, chatting all the time. The OTHER option would be to 'force' them into a random new NPC form, a "Hero disguise." These would put the villain into one of many ultra-cheesy hero/costumes with corresponding cheesy names, ("Super Heroic," "Captain Clean" "H.U.G.S." "Miss Kindness," etc.) with correspondingly over-the top bio's when the villain is clicked for info. ("I love to save puppies! Your cash is safe with me!" "I stake out banks to make sure that no villain comes near them! Especially not <$villain'srealname!> ") |
Example: "villains are breeching the war walls. Civilians have 5 minutes to seek cover." WW would be a safe area, inside any building would be a safe area. The event would be timed and those 'arrested' villains would be sent back to a rogue isle hospital.
Unfortunately... this would be too much fun for the devs to ever make it a reality.
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Yep. It's going to be interesting and potentially frustrating for soloists.
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Originally Posted by gec72
I guess you have a good point there, and I don't guess a red-side arc could allow you to actually get the PCM. There might be some ability to flesh out dealings/backstory involving Sands, Nocturne, the Sky Raiders, Doc Delilah though.
I guess this gets to maybe a bigger issue in my mind - those grey areas. Ok, I have a villain that has started acting heroic enough to become a Rogue. I have access to blue-side zones. To what end? I can't use WW, I can't start heroside missions. Does that mean the only reason I'm there is to team with heroes? What does that leave if I don't particularly want to (I primarily solo, and if I wanted to solo blue side I could easily do so with a blue-side toon. Yes, I suppose this generally does give red-siders more opportunities to find teams)? Maybe they can't completely open things up, but I guess I'd like to see some other options. There could be some opportunity for action for roguish types to find action while in Paragon; there could be some opportunities for vigilantes to take matters into their own hands within the Rogue Isles. Guess I just have to wait and see what GR brings. |
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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If you want to solo, and your villain turns rogue with limited access to the Paragon City resources... just solo some more of your Side-Switching arcs until you change to Hero or Vigilante? Is that a feasible workaround?
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Originally Posted by SwellGuy
Yep. It's going to be interesting and potentially frustrating for soloists.
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The Story of a Petless MM with a dream
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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
This entire post should receive some kind of award for being both hysterical and fantastic.
Well done. |
many times when the Faultline revamp gets brought up people suggest that there should have been a SF allowing Villains to indirectly participate.
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Fix't that one for ya.
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Originally Posted by Tokyo
Unfortunately... this would be so utterly un-fun for a lot of players for the devs to ever make it a reality. |
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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It would be fun the the 5% or so of the population that like PvP. It would not be fun for most of the people that play the game. They have always said that PvP would never be forced on anyone that doesn't want to PvP, but this idea would do just that. Anyone that is in a mission when it happened would come out into a forced PvP environment. Same for anyone that happens to log in during it.|
Originally Posted by Tokyo
I've said it many times, I would <3 an event similar to the rikti event or zombie event where pve zones became warzones and villains could lead an assault against heroes if they breech the war walls...
Example: "villains are breeching the war walls. Civilians have 5 minutes to seek cover." WW would be a safe area, inside any building would be a safe area. The event would be timed and those 'arrested' villains would be sent back to a rogue isle hospital. Unfortunately... this would be too much fun for the devs to ever make it a reality. |
This is a bad idea no matter how you try to make it work.
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There will be Rogue/Vigilante content available, AFAIK with my understanding of the whole system. I don't think they'd leave gray-area characters with nothing to do.
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Originally Posted by gec72
I guess this gets to maybe a bigger issue in my mind - those grey areas. Ok, I have a villain that has started acting heroic enough to become a Rogue. I have access to blue-side zones. To what end? I can't use WW, I can't start heroside missions. Does that mean the only reason I'm there is to team with heroes? What does that leave if I don't particularly want to (I primarily solo, and if I wanted to team blue side I could easily do so with a blue-side toon. Yes, I suppose this generally does give red-siders more opportunities to find teams)?
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I would say this would not go over well with the massive amounts of players that find the forced zone events annoying and have hatred of PvP. I'd be fine with it, but I'm not exactly "normal". |
Tokyo wants it forced: I've said it many times, I would <3 an event similar to the rikti event or zombie event where pve zones became warzones and villains could lead an assault against heroes if they breech the war walls... Example: "villains are breeching the war walls. Civilians have 5 minutes to seek cover." WW would be a safe area, inside any building would be a safe area. The event would be timed and those 'arrested' villains would be sent back to a rogue isle hospital. Unfortunately... this would be too much fun for the devs to ever make it a reality.
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Dec out.
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That and if you're a dedicated soloist, there's always street hunting.
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RedSwitchblade goes one way: If you want to solo, and your villain turns rogue with limited access to the Paragon City resources... just solo some more of your Side-Switching arcs until you change to Hero or Vigilante? Is that a feasible workaround? |
Dec out.
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If you're primarily a soloist, then the Rogue/Vigilante stage definitely has less potential. There are still a truckload of defeat and exploration badges to collect solo, though, plus any side-switching missions until you make the switch all the way.
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Originally Posted by gec72
Ok, I have a villain that has started acting heroic enough to become a Rogue. I have access to blue-side zones. To what end? I can't use WW, I can't start heroside missions. Does that mean the only reason I'm there is to team with heroes?
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I think I've brought up the idea before buried in some thread somewhere, but with the continued call by red-siders for more content, I figured I'd make a thread for it.
With Going Rogue on the horizon, we're going to have vigilantes in villain zones and rogues in hero zones. My suggestion would be to make Faultline a neutral zone which allows everyone access (but obviously w/o PvP).
Arachnos already has a presence there, and is up to something. So open up the zone (or maybe all except for inside the dam itself), put some red-side contacts and arcs there (contacts can be all on the south side of the wall or in the tunnels...Nocturne? Sands?). No need for another whole zone to be built, but it gives villains something else to do.
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