Presence Revamp

you have to take either provoke or challenge, both of which are taunts

What in the world are you talking about? It's impossible to skip Challenge and Provoke. Also, presence is a pool power, not an APP or PPP, which it looks like you think it is, considering your comment about a "44 power".

The OP is disturbed by the fact that, in order to gain the ability to intimidate a target, he first has to have the ability to taunt either multiple targets or a single target. I'd actually support this for PvE, but I'm not sure how it would operate with PvP since you're essentially giving a hard to resist mez effect to everyone without much in the way of cost.

first thing i never said he could skip both. second thing, about the 44 power, that is what i get for doing a build and reading mids at the same time

Of course, the point of this is that I want some characters to be able to skip both, so the fact that I can skip one doesn't help when I want to skip both.

But the OP isn't referring to the having to take Provoke. He's referring to the fact that he has to take either an ST Taunt effect or an AoE Taunt effect. It doesn't matter that he could just as easily take Challenge as Provoke. Both of them are Taunt powers.

Speaking from experience, not numbers (I have two characters with this pool specifically for these mezzes,) I don't think that's a huge issue. They don't last long, they aren't particularly accurate - if I'm PVPing, I'd rather get something out there that's going to do me some good. I can't think of a time I've actually seen them take effect, especially with current PVP rules - even as a controller or dom.

Generally - yeah, I find having to take a taunt irritating to get to them, even if the characters that have the fears are grabbing it mostly for concept. The main issue is, how do you arrange the powers? Both single targets early is fine, IMHO - but I know (for instance) some Tankermind-style masterminds might want both without having to deal with a fear, and rearranging them may hose their builds.

About the only way I can see doing it without messing that up is adding a fifth power as the top-tier power, as that would be enough to push both single target powers to "tier 1/required,") both multi-target ones to "tier 2."

See my Guides and Tutorials

That'd probably work, though it's doubtful they'd do it without doing the same to all the pools. An ST confuse would be an interesting addition to the set.

The only thing the change would wreck is builds that depend on only taking the AoE Taunt, since that gets moved to Tier 3. You can still take both and skip the ST Fear under the OPs suggestion.

Of course, I think at this point they need to just revamp the entire pool. Cottage rule and all, but a ST Taunt is dubiously useful, and the difference between it and an AoE one is relatively minor to the point where I don't see too many folks being upset at losing it. Not sure what I'd replace it with, or how I'd rearrange the pool though. Edit: Oh yeah - let's stick a Placate in there. ST, no Hide aspect, naturally, and a shorter duration. I'd actually consider taking it on a squishy depending on what tier it was in. The ST Confuse could work too.

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

I wouldn't argue with seeing such a revamp - though, again, it'd probably lead to a lot of people respeccing as other powers get shuffled.

I have to admit, I'd just find it interesting as far as what they'd add.

See my Guides and Tutorials

The Fear powers in the Presence pool actually suck pretty badly. The only reason I want them at all is that I'm holding out for Dark Miasma to be 'ported to Controllers, so that I can make a Mind/Dark Controller with the Presence pool, and have 4 Fear powers