Idea:A Major Change to the Suggestions Forum
By
Captain_Photon,
Posted on: 2009-09-30 21:41 in Suggestions and Ideas
In theory, I think that is a marvelous idea. However, the execution and reality of this coming to fruition leaves me in doubt. After all, at it's heart the S&I section would be remiss without hundreds of duplicate whiney threads.
Someone doesn't know their S&I forum very well:
Quote:
That was by ArcticFahx, I think.|
*facepalm* Okay, I know you're new here, and weren't around for the original incident, but the very reason that Suggestions and Ideas is in For Fun now, instead of Development, is a story of two posters. Let's call one of them.... lkamen. And the other..... NWNGirl. NWNGirl had a habit of posting suggestions and stating how simple they would be based on the fact that she had coded a few things in Neverwinter Nights, because all game code is, apparently the same. lkamen would infuriate her (and many others who posted outlandish suggestions that had a snowball's chance in hell of making it in the game, like permanent quadruple XP) by posting simply "no". Exacerbating the problem, NWNGirl would click the "report" button on any post that disagreed with her suggestions, no matter how politely, tersely or impolitely they were worded. Eventually, it all came to a head with bannings of the worst offenders in these, including those who would over-report, by reporting non-rule-breaking threads simply because they had a different opinion on the suggestion. The Community Reps and Devs decided that the S&I forum needed to be somewhere "less serious" than the development section, and so moved it to For Fun, in the hopes that people would not take themselves as seriously, and not see every Suggestion posted as holy mana provided from on high, but rather give them the feedback they need to become good suggestions. Or even explain why a suggestion just isn't good. |
And as for the giant costume request thread? Do you think it became 550+ pages overnight? JLove is renowned for actually reading new posts that make it his way.
Quote:
I strongly suspect at least one of those posts got read, because the thing I suggested in it is in the game now, which makes me inordinately happy given what a small thing it is. |
Originally Posted by Sigium
And as for the giant costume request thread? Do you think it became 550+ pages overnight? JLove is renowned for actually reading new posts that make it his way.
|
Quote:
That's a nice little story, but interesting in that while it's what was going on in the forum at the time, it has almost nothing to do with why the section got moved and why it's where it is.|
Originally Posted by Sigium
Someone doesn't know their S&I forum very well:
That was by ArcticFahx, I think. And as for the giant costume request thread? Do you think it became 550+ pages overnight? JLove is renowned for actually reading new posts that make it his way. |
Since the committee is no more, I feel like I can talk a bit about what happened now. If I'm wrong, Ocho or Niv can edit my post, and it won't bother me in the least.
Part of the way Ex Libris and Lighthouse got things done was to gather small groups of players for specific topics and set up a private section that let them have discussions and feedback without the full hurly burly of the open forum. PERC, PvPEC, and the City Scoop are all examples of this. However the starting point for it all was the Forum Planning Committee. A small group of players that discussed ideas for making the forums better. Most of the other committees came from ideas we kicked around in there. We didn't have secret powers, we didn't get people banned, we mainly pointed out things that were good about the forums and found ways to boost them, and found things that weren't so good and tried to fix them.
Probably our biggest failure was the S&I forum. Long before the events quoted by Sigium, we noticed the change in tone here. Things flat out weren't as nice as they used to be. The negativity had a lot to do with many many posters, not just a few bad apples. We came up with a lot of possible solutions, and it's mainly coincidence that things were getting as bad as the quote above happened around the same time we were discussing things.
Based on what we'd been kicking around Ex Libris came up with her plan, and posted it here. A large (really large) number of players saw a more formalized process as interference. They really really did not want their toy taken away. Some saw it as a form of forum PvP. They liked shooting down ideas. They didn't even take the opportunity Ex gave them to help form the new version of the forum, they just got very very nasty about any changes.
So it was made clear, that the occasional good idea wasn't worth the aggravation to the mods or the people who wanted the tone of the discussion to improve. The section got moved from Player Help to For Fun! and that's where we are today. Don't for a moment think that doesn't mean it's unread and unseen by the devs though. They do see a good portion of what's said. The key is, you can't expect responses, and you can't expect a dialogue. They simply don't have time in their workday to interface with thousands of players.
So what can we as players do? The simple fact is, bad ideas still float, good ideas still sink. If you really want to see the profile of the section change, you need to make a personal choice to contribute and discuss the good ideas, and don't get wrapped up in arguing about the bad ones. Do more than just bump good threads, or say I like this, or I agree. Sit and think and put in a portion of the time the OP put into the good post, and add some feedback.
The FPC is gone, and until Paragon hires a new Community Manager, we probably won't see major changes to the forum structure and practices. It's great to see some people still feel like this section could be a lot more than it is. However don't treat it as an Us v Them situation, and the devs don't listen, realize that it's your fellow players who are largely responsible for the way things are.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
For Jay's costume thread, it is actually not that bad. It seems like a huge thread that nobody can read it all, but if you read the thread everyday and keep yourself updated frequently, then it only takes a small fraction of your time everyday.
I think the suggestion and ideas forum has its good point at the current form. People can freely dump their ideas into the forum for others to criticize. In the process, the idea can be refined if it's a good one, or discarded if it's really bad. The forum filters out ideas that are not that great.
I don't think the forum should be removed or changed. I think the main issue is how to take good ideas to the dev. Actually, it wouldn't be an issue if the dev can spend like half an hour everyday on this forum to scan for ideas, and they can jot down notes themselves for potentially good ones. Another issue is how to avoid certain popular ideas being suggested repeatedly.
I would like some kind of voting. I'm not sure if voting in the forum really represents the community of CoH. And there is always a discrepancy between what we want and what the dev wants. We try so hard to tell the dev what we think. Very often, I want to know what they really think while we are suggesting non-stop here.
Quote:
I kinda feel lik my idea would increase the amount of suggestion and whiney threads, it's just noone really has tor ead them to know what's being directly presented, just the stuff at the top to know what's actually being suggested to the devs.|
Originally Posted by Thirty_Seven
In theory, I think that is a marvelous idea. However, the execution and reality of this coming to fruition leaves me in doubt. After all, at it's heart the S&I section would be remiss without hundreds of duplicate whiney threads.
|
Quote:
| Someone doesn't know their S&I forum very well: |
Quote:
| However don't treat it as an Us v Them situation, and the devs don't listen, realize that it's your fellow players who are largely responsible for the way things are. |
Anyone Who wants to argue about my usual foolishness can find me here.
https://twitter.com/Premmytwit
I'll miss you all.
Hmm it is quite interesting.
My 'non-combat pets' thread which garnered a reasonable amount of support and took me freaking ages to create because it grew to a large amount of non-combat pets all with their names, ingame critter type, how they were earned and a decent chunk of text (a Paragraph) of description. There was one for every single Taskforce and Strikeforce in the game.
Avatea liked the idea and actually had it sent to the devs on her weekly 'look at this suggestion from the Europeans' bullet points she would send them and told me that they might look at it, they might not but to not expect a response unless it was something they all got really psyched about and wanted to include in the game.
Sadly I didn't get a response on that one...I AM tempted to repost it but it would take me an hour just to type everything out again...
Feel Like your Ideas are'nt being heard? well they're not. Not because the Devs don't care, but because the Devs can't hear them, they're being drowned out by everyone else's
The Suggestion threads are Chock full of posts not to mention discussion and spam. The Costume Request thread alone is 550 pages long as of this posting. Does anyone really think it's possible for Jay to do all of that? really? is that even fair to him? no it is'nt. You know what would be though? one page, with maybe twenty items and major features. That he could probably squeeze into two upcoming issues along with whatever major feature they have planned. We have new Forum software, and I know Vbulletin supports polling in threads. Which leads me to my suggestion for... suggestions.
Instead of one Thread that everyone can post in, Move the suggestions Forum into the Dev section where it'll get the most traffic, and put a series of Sticked, locked threads for every area ( Costume Peices, Custom weapons, Powers, power Customizations, QoL, AE, base Building/SGVG Features, e.t.c.) with one post only. That post would contain a list of Major Features that have been voted on and elaborated upon by the community. Now, instead of dreading even touching the crazy high amount of requests in the requests threads, the Devs will have about ten or so features the know they can do. What's more, these threads will better represent the needs and wants of the community as a whole instead of the needs of individuals. If everyone votes on a thread posted in the suggestions forum, then it can be assumed, but admittedly it may not always be the case, that what's in that thread is what a majority of the Fora would like to have in the game.
Another benefit of this idea is that instead of a thousand pages of "I want this!" with maybe a picture and a short description, There would be a short list of Very Detailed requests, suggestions and ideas. With a whole thread to hash out the details of a particular suggestion, what the Devs would get is something akin to a business proposal or project outline, with all the specifics laid out, and since the Devs are in fact, part of a business, this would possibly be more in line with how they themselves exchange ideas and thus easier for them to implement ideas presented here.
Anyone Who wants to argue about my usual foolishness can find me here.
https://twitter.com/Premmytwit
I'll miss you all.