While i was bored at work, i began to think about the differences between the elec/shield and fire/sr scrappers i've been playing. I began to wonder just what exactly was the difference each was going to have in survivability between the two sets, both current, SOd with all powers, and then IOd.
There are of course many other factors such as regeneration (which for this debate they pretty much have the same), mitigation through knockdowns, heals etc.
But as far as the two sets go, they can be compared pretty proactively between their defense, resistance, and +HP values to see their what i like to call "survivability value" to see how they will take on incoming damage on average for most mobs.
Of course there are other factors such as, things like the psy hole, where the shield is better, for only the reason that the ones that break positional defense, it has that small +hp buff that helps it against such attacks, but going for the average values for survival, we can calculate pretty much the same pre-battle survival across any toon. (as far as for things like the psy hole, we'd have to give a value to just how much damage that accounts for per mob type, and give that % of that type take out of the overall value)
But to not get too involved with the erroneous values and types/situations, to calculate pre-battle survival, we have to look at the three things mentioned, defense, resistance, and +HP(which works just like resistance but needs to be calculated separately and a little bit differently)
For starters we can go into how +HP bonuses affect survival. +hp bonuses, after calculating work exactly like +resistance values does. Because by granting more HP, it takes the enemy effectively that much damage to kill you off. However, because you are adding the HP to the total you already have, instead of directly subtracting the hits you take from 100%.
The easiest way to look at this first, is think of where you are with 100% HP bonuses.
Adding on an extra 100% on top of the 100% you have, will grant you 200% max HP.
This means that when an attack could kill you lets say in exactly 2 hits total from your base hp, it is now going to take exactly 4 hits total to kill you. This effectively "halves" the damage from the attacks. The equation to calculate this is:
HP bonus/ (100% + HP bonus). Meaning its on a denomial scale.
So for what you'll see a lot in this, take the 20% HP bonuses from accolades. Instead of thinking its a direct 20% resistance, it is actually 20/120 = 16.666% resistance to incoming attacks from base HP when looking at the total percentage of your health.
Survival:
To start the process for the Survivability Value, you have to first look at defense. The defense will be the base value, to tell you exactly what chance an attack has to hit you in the first place. This is relatively the easy part of the process.
Simply take the defense you have, add 50% (which is the base chance mobs have against them to hit you), and then subtract from 100% chance to hit.
So lets say for example, when softcapped for defense, you have 45% defense + 50% mob gimp = 95% defense (always the 5% chance no matter what they can hit you)
100% - 95% = a 5% chance that an enemy can hit you.
Next, is where especially between the two builds where the math gets a little more intensive, but not TOO scary.
Resistance and + HP.
The next step, is to caclulate the resistance your character has. SO lets say, the shield scrapper, 11.25% resistance, times 1.56 (Ed cap-ish) = 17.55% resistance.
Now subract that from 100% damage = 8.45% damage the attack will now do.
So your survival value is now: 5% chance to hit, times .8245 max damage = 4.1225% on average the damage that any given attack will have to do to you.
Now you have to factor in the +HP buffs and/or accolades.
For simplicity sake, lets just use the unenhanced HP from true grit and the 20% from accolades. 30/130 = 23.077% "resistance"
1 - .23077 = .76923 damage taken.
Now multiply that by the other value with defense and resistance:
4.1225 x .76923 = 3.1712% Chance on average that any given attack will do to you compared to when you had no abilities at all with your AT
I mention AT, as we are basing this off of your personal HP amount per AT, as it relates to how many hits it will take to bring down that base HP.
Obviously as noticed earlier, this was at the soft cap for defense, which is why that value is so low.
Now for the special case: Super Reflexes; Part 1: Base
What was demonstrated earlier, can be used to calculate the shield's survivability with that formula. For any value of defense (averaged), resistance (averaged) and + HP
However, when comparing the shield, to the SR scrapper, the SR with the way its resistance works, is done so by a little more complication, of finding the average resistance you get out of the auto's. This furthers why this is an average survivability value as well, because as we all know (grr) the resistances don't kick in till you are below 60% health.
So first, we know how the defesne will work in the equation from the SR. So lets look at the resistances.
First off, as they work on a sliding scale, to find the average, we'd have to find the total resistance amount for the full HP bar (or in this case, i use till 2% health, cause even from a minnion, when at 2% health, its pretty much going to kill you with any attack, which is why the resistance not on a slower increasing scale starting at 100% bugs me so much, because the stongest value of the resistances, comes in when it can't be used anyways).
So finding the total value of the resistances across the 97% health is the most difficult part. Basically, each % under 60% hp, each toggles grants .3% resistance, or .9% with all 3.
This means that youll need a chart that increases by .9% resistance, for each % of HP till you reach the max (in this case, to 2% health, or 60-58)
Once you do that,then you are simply finding the area under the curve, to find the total resistance given by the scaling resistances.
Or in other words 1/2 base times height, the base being the 58 percentages of HP, and height being the highest point at the end, or the 58 times .9 =
(.9 x 58^2)/2 = 1513.8 resistance.
Now divide that across the total amount of HP being used, IE divide by the 98 percentages of HP:
1513.8/98 = 15.447% average resistance from the SR auto's. This value will be used exactly as other resistances as in the formula used above this section.
Part 2: HP bonuses and accolades:
Now here is the easy, yet tricky part that needs to be noticed as well. Unlike the formula above for +HP bonuses/accolades, there is an addiontal note to be placed, as the resistances from SR scale directly in relation to the total HP you have, so their resistance values are increased by being granted more HP to use between those percentages.
So in order to do that, we'll calculate the "resistance" value of the HP, we'll say in this case the 20% from accolades or 16.66% "resistance"
So we take that 15.447% resistance, and multiply it by the extra HP that will be granted allowing the scaling to increase:
15.447% times 116.66% HP or 1.1666 = 18.020% average resistance with accolades.
So once you calculate the average resistance from the autos, in relation to the total HP you'll have, then you insert that resistance value into the equation entered above!
So for any toon, assuming the same or averaged defense values/resistances you can use this to calculate its pre-battle Survivability!
(Average chance to hit) (% damage amount from resistances) (% damage amount from HP bonsues/accolades) = "survivability value" or the effectiveness that an incoming attack has to kill you from your base Characters survivability.
So for the easy comparison: SOLO SO'd SR versus SO'd Shields scrapper, both with full accolades (ignoring the erroneous psy):
Shield:
Defense: (toggles) 11.25 * 1.56 = 17.55 + (Phalanx fighting) 3.75 = 21.3% defense + 50 = 71.3% total defense. 100% chance to hit - 71.3% defense = 28.7% chance to be hit.
Resistance: 11.25 * 1.56 = 17.55% resistnace. (considering the 2% HP SR limitation, granting for the resistances in shield as well = 17.55 * 100%hp, divided by 98% useable HP = 17.908%) 1-.17908 = .82092
HP: 10% hp * 1.95 = 19.5% hp. 19.5% + 20%(accolades) = 39.5%HP
39.5/139.5 = .28315% "resistance": 1-.28315 = .71684% damage taken from base HP
Total: 28.7 x .82092 x .71684 = 16.889% average damage taken from an attack
Versus:
SR:
Defense: (13.88(toggles) + 5.63(autos)) x 1.56 = 30.436 + 50 = 80.436. 100-80.436 = 19.5644% chance to be hit
HP: (20/120) = 16.667% "resistance" 100% - 16.667% = .8333 damage taken from base.
Resistance: (.9 x 58^2)/2 = 1513.8/98(total used HP) = 15.447% resistance x 1.1666 = 18.020% average resistance. 100% - 18.020 = 81.98% damage taken.
Total: 19.5644 x .8198 x .8333 = 13.365% average damage taken from an attack
This is of course base sets, not including IOs, or other pool powers, buffs, or in the case of shields even close quarters teammates. But gives you a general overview of how to compare a sets pre-battle survivability.
It should also be noted, That it does not account for the "jumps" in SRs resistances. The HUGE reason why i suggest they start with like 2% per auto at 100% and scale down appropriately from there. Think i figured about 1.25% per auto would give the same average resistance value across the full HP.
But as it is nearly impossible to calculate how much of the resistance is going to be "jumped" over its hard to actually quantify it without knowing the exact %damage the base attack will do before the resistances are applied and the consecutively thereafter. But its definitely a noticeable downfall to the way the scaling resistances work. If the attacks are very minute and constant this equation works however. And is the closest way to find the survivability of a SR so it works close enough for our purposes. So i could take a guess and say that, maybe 1/3 of the resistances are "jumped" over, but no real way to say. But if you figure that, then just multiply the resistance value for the SR autos above by 2/3 on average. So with the accolades that 18% resistance is really about 12% in this case. Or something closer to a 14.35% average damage taken.
While i was bored at work, i began to think about the differences between the elec/shield and fire/sr scrappers i've been playing. I began to wonder just what exactly was the difference each was going to have in survivability between the two sets, both current, SOd with all powers, and then IOd.
There are of course many other factors such as regeneration (which for this debate they pretty much have the same), mitigation through knockdowns, heals etc.
But as far as the two sets go, they can be compared pretty proactively between their defense, resistance, and +HP values to see their what i like to call "survivability value" to see how they will take on incoming damage on average for most mobs.
Of course there are other factors such as, things like the psy hole, where the shield is better, for only the reason that the ones that break positional defense, it has that small +hp buff that helps it against such attacks, but going for the average values for survival, we can calculate pretty much the same pre-battle survival across any toon. (as far as for things like the psy hole, we'd have to give a value to just how much damage that accounts for per mob type, and give that % of that type take out of the overall value)
But to not get too involved with the erroneous values and types/situations, to calculate pre-battle survival, we have to look at the three things mentioned, defense, resistance, and +HP(which works just like resistance but needs to be calculated separately and a little bit differently)
For starters we can go into how +HP bonuses affect survival. +hp bonuses, after calculating work exactly like +resistance values does. Because by granting more HP, it takes the enemy effectively that much damage to kill you off. However, because you are adding the HP to the total you already have, instead of directly subtracting the hits you take from 100%.
The easiest way to look at this first, is think of where you are with 100% HP bonuses.
Adding on an extra 100% on top of the 100% you have, will grant you 200% max HP.
This means that when an attack could kill you lets say in exactly 2 hits total from your base hp, it is now going to take exactly 4 hits total to kill you. This effectively "halves" the damage from the attacks. The equation to calculate this is:
HP bonus/ (100% + HP bonus). Meaning its on a denomial scale.
So for what you'll see a lot in this, take the 20% HP bonuses from accolades. Instead of thinking its a direct 20% resistance, it is actually 20/120 = 16.666% resistance to incoming attacks from base HP when looking at the total percentage of your health.
Survival:
To start the process for the Survivability Value, you have to first look at defense. The defense will be the base value, to tell you exactly what chance an attack has to hit you in the first place. This is relatively the easy part of the process.
Simply take the defense you have, add 50% (which is the base chance mobs have against them to hit you), and then subtract from 100% chance to hit.
So lets say for example, when softcapped for defense, you have 45% defense + 50% mob gimp = 95% defense (always the 5% chance no matter what they can hit you)
100% - 95% = a 5% chance that an enemy can hit you.
Next, is where especially between the two builds where the math gets a little more intensive, but not TOO scary.
Resistance and + HP.
The next step, is to caclulate the resistance your character has. SO lets say, the shield scrapper, 11.25% resistance, times 1.56 (Ed cap-ish) = 17.55% resistance.
Now subract that from 100% damage = 8.45% damage the attack will now do.
So your survival value is now: 5% chance to hit, times .8245 max damage = 4.1225% on average the damage that any given attack will have to do to you.
Now you have to factor in the +HP buffs and/or accolades.
For simplicity sake, lets just use the unenhanced HP from true grit and the 20% from accolades. 30/130 = 23.077% "resistance"
1 - .23077 = .76923 damage taken.
Now multiply that by the other value with defense and resistance:
4.1225 x .76923 = 3.1712% Chance on average that any given attack will do to you compared to when you had no abilities at all with your AT
I mention AT, as we are basing this off of your personal HP amount per AT, as it relates to how many hits it will take to bring down that base HP.
Obviously as noticed earlier, this was at the soft cap for defense, which is why that value is so low.
Now for the special case: Super Reflexes; Part 1: Base
What was demonstrated earlier, can be used to calculate the shield's survivability with that formula. For any value of defense (averaged), resistance (averaged) and + HP
However, when comparing the shield, to the SR scrapper, the SR with the way its resistance works, is done so by a little more complication, of finding the average resistance you get out of the auto's. This furthers why this is an average survivability value as well, because as we all know (grr) the resistances don't kick in till you are below 60% health.
So first, we know how the defesne will work in the equation from the SR. So lets look at the resistances.
First off, as they work on a sliding scale, to find the average, we'd have to find the total resistance amount for the full HP bar (or in this case, i use till 2% health, cause even from a minnion, when at 2% health, its pretty much going to kill you with any attack, which is why the resistance not on a slower increasing scale starting at 100% bugs me so much, because the stongest value of the resistances, comes in when it can't be used anyways).
So finding the total value of the resistances across the 97% health is the most difficult part. Basically, each % under 60% hp, each toggles grants .3% resistance, or .9% with all 3.
This means that youll need a chart that increases by .9% resistance, for each % of HP till you reach the max (in this case, to 2% health, or 60-58)
Once you do that,then you are simply finding the area under the curve, to find the total resistance given by the scaling resistances.
Or in other words 1/2 base times height, the base being the 58 percentages of HP, and height being the highest point at the end, or the 58 times .9 =
(.9 x 58^2)/2 = 1513.8 resistance.
Now divide that across the total amount of HP being used, IE divide by the 98 percentages of HP:
1513.8/98 = 15.447% average resistance from the SR auto's. This value will be used exactly as other resistances as in the formula used above this section.
Part 2: HP bonuses and accolades:
Now here is the easy, yet tricky part that needs to be noticed as well. Unlike the formula above for +HP bonuses/accolades, there is an addiontal note to be placed, as the resistances from SR scale directly in relation to the total HP you have, so their resistance values are increased by being granted more HP to use between those percentages.
So in order to do that, we'll calculate the "resistance" value of the HP, we'll say in this case the 20% from accolades or 16.66% "resistance"
So we take that 15.447% resistance, and multiply it by the extra HP that will be granted allowing the scaling to increase:
15.447% times 116.66% HP or 1.1666 = 18.020% average resistance with accolades.
So once you calculate the average resistance from the autos, in relation to the total HP you'll have, then you insert that resistance value into the equation entered above!
So for any toon, assuming the same or averaged defense values/resistances you can use this to calculate its pre-battle Survivability!
(Average chance to hit) (% damage amount from resistances) (% damage amount from HP bonsues/accolades) = "survivability value" or the effectiveness that an incoming attack has to kill you from your base Characters survivability.
So for the easy comparison: SOLO SO'd SR versus SO'd Shields scrapper, both with full accolades (ignoring the erroneous psy):
Shield:
Defense: (toggles) 11.25 * 1.56 = 17.55 + (Phalanx fighting) 3.75 = 21.3% defense + 50 = 71.3% total defense. 100% chance to hit - 71.3% defense = 28.7% chance to be hit.
Resistance: 11.25 * 1.56 = 17.55% resistnace. (considering the 2% HP SR limitation, granting for the resistances in shield as well = 17.55 * 100%hp, divided by 98% useable HP = 17.908%) 1-.17908 = .82092
HP: 10% hp * 1.95 = 19.5% hp. 19.5% + 20%(accolades) = 39.5%HP
39.5/139.5 = .28315% "resistance": 1-.28315 = .71684% damage taken from base HP
Total: 28.7 x .82092 x .71684 = 16.889% average damage taken from an attack
Versus:
SR:
Defense: (13.88(toggles) + 5.63(autos)) x 1.56 = 30.436 + 50 = 80.436. 100-80.436 = 19.5644% chance to be hit
HP: (20/120) = 16.667% "resistance" 100% - 16.667% = .8333 damage taken from base.
Resistance: (.9 x 58^2)/2 = 1513.8/98(total used HP) = 15.447% resistance x 1.1666 = 18.020% average resistance. 100% - 18.020 = 81.98% damage taken.
Total: 19.5644 x .8198 x .8333 = 13.365% average damage taken from an attack
This is of course base sets, not including IOs, or other pool powers, buffs, or in the case of shields even close quarters teammates. But gives you a general overview of how to compare a sets pre-battle survivability.
It should also be noted, That it does not account for the "jumps" in SRs resistances. The HUGE reason why i suggest they start with like 2% per auto at 100% and scale down appropriately from there. Think i figured about 1.25% per auto would give the same average resistance value across the full HP.
But as it is nearly impossible to calculate how much of the resistance is going to be "jumped" over its hard to actually quantify it without knowing the exact %damage the base attack will do before the resistances are applied and the consecutively thereafter. But its definitely a noticeable downfall to the way the scaling resistances work. If the attacks are very minute and constant this equation works however. And is the closest way to find the survivability of a SR so it works close enough for our purposes. So i could take a guess and say that, maybe 1/3 of the resistances are "jumped" over, but no real way to say. But if you figure that, then just multiply the resistance value for the SR autos above by 2/3 on average. So with the accolades that 18% resistance is really about 12% in this case. Or something closer to a 14.35% average damage taken.
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