The defense soft cap (45%) is the point where enemies without any +tohit/+accuracy will have only a 5% chance to hit you, which is the minimum possible. Basically, anything beyond 45% is considered mostly only useful as insurance against -defense or +tohit.
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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Do the 45% mean the total defense of the character or the power? i.e. if you have two seperate power giving defense or is it total enhancement is softcapped at 45%?
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Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight
The defense soft cap (45%) is the point where enemies without any +tohit/+accuracy will have only a 5% chance to hit you, which is the minimum possible. Basically, anything beyond 45% is considered mostly only useful as insurance against -defense or +tohit.
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For the character.
But be aware that there are different types of defense (for a better understanding see Paragon Wiki). The same type of defense will add up, from both powers, IO bonuses etc.
If you look in your Combat Attributes, you can see your current values.
So you only to use two SO enhancements to hit 40%, and a third to top it off, right?
Simple put.....
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Originally Posted by Lord_Asguard
So you only to use two SO enhancements to hit 40%, and a third to top it off, right?
Simple put..... |
Not 45% enhancement. 45% total defense to all positionals, or all damage types. Or both, if you're insane.
@Roderick
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See I never understood this either, glad the question was asked. But if you look at the combat attributes it will tell you how much defense you have, then you can figure out how to enhance? If you have 35% already, and an enhancement says it will give you 10% more, then that will take you to the soft cap?|
Originally Posted by Roderick
No
Not 45% enhancement. 45% total defense to all positionals, or all damage types. Or both, if you're insane. |
Is this correct, or am I dead wrong?
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You're dead wrong.|
Originally Posted by SkyRocker
See I never understood this either, glad the question was asked. But if you look at the combat attributes it will tell you how much defense you have, then you can figure out how to enhance? If you have 35% already, and an enhancement says it will give you 10% more, then that will take you to the soft cap?
Is this correct, or am I dead wrong? |
You're not adding 10% defense. You're multiplying.
If you enhance a 35 damage attack for 10% damage, it become 38.5 damage, not 45 damage.
If you enhance a 35% defense power for 10% defense, it becomes 38.5% defense, not 45% defense.
Edit: If you look in the enhancement screen when you try to add an enhancement, you'll see several values. The last one is the enhanced defense. The other numbers let you know the value of your enhancements and what the power is at before adding the enhancement, but the very last value is what you actually use.
Single Origin (and really all but a select few) Enhancements give that percent to increase the power they don't give global bonuses.
ex: Power X gives 10% defense all and you slot an enhancement with 20% defense power X now gives 12% defense, not 30.
Blasted ninjas.
Ok, I won't claim to understand all that was said, but I got enough of it to play around and figure it out. One last question, is damage resistance part of the defense or it is a seperate cap?
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The damage resistance cap depends upon archetype. Tankers and brutes cap at 90% res. Khelds at 80, and as far as I can recall everyone else caps at 75.
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Originally Posted by Lord_Asguard
Ok, I won't claim to understand all that was said, but I got enough of it to play around and figure it out. One last question, is damage resistance part of the defense or it is a seperate cap?
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resist and defense are two very different things.
Resist means you will always take x% less damage
defense always has the 5% chance to be hit.
It's worth noting that both defense and resistance have "hard" caps, points at which adding more % is superfluous because the game caps it. But while the resistance hard caps are within achievable range for most characters, as described above...90% to 75% generally...the defense hard cap is some astronomical number like 300% or something, and it's rendered moot anyway by the defense soft cap. The soft cap is the point at which adding extra defense is irrelevant (except to counter debuffs and to-hit buffs; and to0hit buss rare, but massive, in PVE) because everyone has a minimum 5% chance to hit.
That number is adjusted somewhat by the type of enemy -- bosses and LTs will have more than a 5% chance to hit -- but it's still as low as it'll go once you've achieved the soft cap.
Resistance doesn't have a soft cap, so when people use the term, they're almost exclusively talking about defense (assuming they know what they're talking about, heh).
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
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While the terminology here can get slippery, it is possible to get effects out of resistances greater than what the resistance cap declares when facing resistance debuffs, similar to how having more than 45% defense is valuable when facing defense debuffs (or tohit buffs). Having over 100% resistance, even if the game caps the effective resistance ot 75 or 90, will still provide protection against resistance debuffs, which, unlike defense, doesn't use a second value to limit debuffs. |
Originally Posted by Sailboat
It's worth noting that both defense and resistance have "hard" caps, points at which adding more % is superfluous because the game caps it. But while the resistance hard caps are within achievable range for most characters, as described above...90% to 75% generally...the defense hard cap is some astronomical number like 300% or something, and it's rendered moot anyway by the defense soft cap.
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Or, in a slightly less convoluted way:
- Defense is protected from debuffing by defense debuff resistance, which is an entirely separate value.
- Resistance is protected from debuffing by itself, so that 50% resistance would cut resistance debuffs by 50% before subtracting from that 50%
Resistance's effects don't just get thrown away after 90% (or 75 or 80), as they would if it were a hardcap.
Put another way:
A tanker with over 9000! resistance, capped at 90, is hit by a 9000 resistance debuff. That character still has over 9000! resistance, capped at 90.
Someone with 1000 defense faces an opponent with 300 tohit buff. That character effectively has 0 defense, because that 1000 defense was hardcapped at 300.
A long semantics argument, but it's better than politics.
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Neither of these are true (well, the first is sort of true).|
Originally Posted by Dersk
A tanker with over 9000! resistance, capped at 90, is hit by a 9000 resistance debuff. That character still has over 9000! resistance, capped at 90.
Someone with 1000 defense faces an opponent with 300 tohit buff. That character effectively has 0 defense, because that 1000 defense was hardcapped at 300. |
If you somehow had 9000% resistance as a Tanker (cap: 90%), and get hit with a 9000% resistance debuff, you would resist 90% of the debuff (since the game treats you as having 90%, despite having 9000%), meaning the -9000% resistance is cut down to -900% (9000 * 0.1). Your total resistance would then be 9000 - 900 = 8100%, which is still above 90%, so still capped at 90% (which is why your statement was partially true; the character would remain at 90% effective resistance)
A better example would be having exactly 90% res, vs. having 100% res, and getting hit by a -100% debuff. The character with 90% would reduce he debuff to -10%, and end up at 80% total. The character with 100% would also reduce the debuff to -10% since the game still treats them as having 90%, but 100 - 10 = 90, so they would still be at 90%.
In your second example, 1000% defense hit by a 300% debuff is wrong in two ways. First, 1000 - 300 = 700, still far above the 45% softcap (also above the 175-225.05% hard cap depending on AT). Second, defense can go negative, so even if you were right about how the debuff worked, the character would be at -100% defense (the minimum), not 0%.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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Bzzt.|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
Your total resistance would then be 9000 - 900 = 8100%
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Here's an example
My tanker was just hit by 239% resistance debuff. He has 107.71% resistance (used some insps to go over 100%). See the total resistance? 90%. He's resisting 100% of the res debuff. At least to smashing and lethal damage. I'll not talk about what the energy damage did to him after I took the screenshot.
If what you said had been accurate, I would have been at 83.81 resistance.
Here's a better picture
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Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
1000% defense hit by a 300% debuff is wrong in two ways. First, 1000 - 300 = 700, still far above the 45% softcap (also above the 175-225.05% hard cap depending on AT).
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edit: Seems as though the defense hard cap does not include "base defense" such as personal forcefield, which has its own cap, which is why I had been seeing 250%+ defense on some occasions.
I've been out fo the game for a while. Can some explain the current rules reguarding Soft Caps, for Defense? I'm not understanding what I've been told so far.