Exploit:
With the existence of AE tickets it would be too easy to game something like this. If you are guaranteed at least one merit for any recipe, you could run a long arc or a few big missions and get a LOT of tickets, which you could use on Bronze rolls. Since rarity wouldn't matter (you'd get at least one) you could build up a huge amount of merits in a relatively short period of time.
I don't think the devs ever wanted merits to be that easy to get, hence the fact that they only exist as rewards for TFs and (usually long) story arcs. The devs have said a few times that number of merits for something is based on how long it takes you to get them. This idea would completely break that model. The Positron TF takes anywhere from 2 to 8 hours, depending on how good your team is. It is worth 64 merits. If you turn in 20 otherwise worthless rare recipes, you could get 60 merits in less than 5 minutes. Even if there was a limit to how many you could turn in it would break the merit/time ratio. If the limit were, say, 5 recipes of any rarity, you could turn in 5 rares for 15 merits in less than a minute. Katie Hannon takes a half hour and nets you 9.
So, I'd have to say that, while interesting, this is a bad idea.
Edit: Also, turning in one rare recipe gets you more merits than killing a Giant Monster? How is that fair?
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Since rarity wouldn't matter (you'd get at least one) you could build up a huge amount of merits in a relatively short period of time.
That's why you could only cash in a set number of recipes per day - and to prevent doing so on a horde of different characters, the limit would apply to the entire account, not a single character.
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I have several characters at, or near, the ticket cap... that'd mean I'd basically be getting the daily merit limit every day for quite a while... without even having to play!
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Originally Posted by Quinch
That's why you could only cash in a set number of recipes per day - and to prevent doing so on a horde of different characters, the limit would apply to the entire account, not a single character.
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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Errr, Kitsune, tickets don't come into it.
What I'm proposing is simply being able to sell recipes to merit vendors, rather than just buying them, although at a vastly unfavorable rate.
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Guess what tickets let you buy? |
Originally Posted by Quinch
Errr, Kitsune, tickets don't come into it.
What I'm proposing is simply being able to sell recipes to merit vendors, rather than just buying them, although at a vastly unfavorable rate. |
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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Recipes. But since you can only cash in a limited number of recipes at the vendor, and that limit applies to the account, it's irrelevant how many characters you have.
Let's say you can cash in five recipes per day - you do so on character X. Because you've reached your limit, none of your other characters can cash in any more recipes until the next day either. You cash in two recipes on character X, two on character Y - the character Z would only be able to cash in one, and after that, any other characters wouldn't be able to do so until the next day.
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Originally Posted by Quinch
Recipes. But since you can only cash in a limited number of recipes at the vendor, and that limit applies to the account, it's irrelevant how many characters you have.
Let's say you can cash in five recipes per day - you do so on character X. Because you've reached your limit, none of your other characters can cash in any more recipes until the next day either. You cash in two recipes on character X, two on character Y - the character Z would only be able to cash in one, and after that, any other characters wouldn't be able to do so until the next day. |
5 recipes at 2-3 merits apiece. 10-15 merits in a matter of seconds.
Katie Hannon. 9 merits in a half hour (average)
Selling a Sting of the Manticore = 3 merits (as your proposal would suggest)
Killing a Kronos Titan = 2 merits
How is it fair to get more for selling a recipe that the majority of the playerbase finds useless, than for defeating one of the toughest monsters in the game outside of Hamidon?
Scenario: I have a level 50 character I very rarely play. He hangs out next to a Merit vendor all the time. I transfer all the useless stuff I get to him to sell for merits. After a while I would get a huge amount of merits on that character to either buy expensive stuff outright, or make a huge number of random rolls. Even with a limit in place, it's only a matter of time to get whatever I want. No TFs, no story arcs, no fighting anything at all.
Merits, currently are untradable. that's because the devs want you to earn them. It's entirely possible that my character sitting there at the vendor could amass thousands of merits, while never actually having done anything. I seriously doubt the devs are going to allow the system they put in place to be abused like that.
You do something, you get merits. You do nothing, you get none. It's fair and impartial, and it favors no one player over another. It is character specific. What you're proposing is a loophole in that system that would allow a character to gain merits for essentially nothing.
The fact that there is a limit on the account is irrelevant, a character is getting a reward with absolutely zero risk. Which, in case you missed it, is part of the devs definition of exploiting.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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You also get a badge - in fact, badges were the only reward for defeating GMs until the merits were introduced and there was no shortage of players taking them down before then.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
How is it fair to get more for selling a recipe that the majority of the playerbase finds useless, than for defeating one of the toughest monsters in the game outside of Hamidon?
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| After a long while I would get a huge amount of merits on that character to either buy expensive stuff outright, or make a huge number of random rolls. Even with a limit in place, it's only a matter of time to get whatever I want. No TFs, no story arcs, no fighting anything at all. |
I would actually prefer to be able to transform recipes into salvage instead. Recipes, IOs and normal Enhancements. They should all be able to be converted into Brainstorms, which can then be used to create salvage.
Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522
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Originally Posted by Quinch
You also get a badge - in fact, badges were the only reward for defeating GMs until the merits were introduced and there was no shortage of players taking them down before then.
Edit mine. Keep in mind that almost all the recipes, and the ones in high demand especially, have a cost in hundreds of merits. You have also done something to get those recipes - I doubt they spontaneously materialized in your inventory while you weren't looking. In turn, you get an opportunity to exchange something you don't want for a fraction of something you do want. |
I notice how you conveniently ignored the rest of my post where I point out that a character could get merits for doing absolutely nothing. A reward with literally no risk at all. Merits are not tradeable, and are character specific. They did that so that only the character that earned them could use them to get a reward.
Recipes ARE tradeable. There is nothing stopping you from giving a character a junk recipe and having them sell it for merits. The character getting the merits did nothing whatsoever to earn them. They are getting rewarded with absolutely no risk whatsoever.
The way the devs set up merits, the amount you recieve is determined by A) How much time (on average) you spent on the task you're recieving them for, and B) To a somewhat lesser extent, how much risk you are exposing your character to in that task.
What you're asking for is a way to circumvent both of those things, which is an exploit as defined by the developers. That is about the ONLY facet of what an exploit is that they have defined: Anything that breaks the Risk/Reward ratio. The part they haven't defined is exactly how far you have to go before they consider it an exploit.
I can't say for sure because I don't work there, but I have a feeling they would consider the ability to receive merits for simply clicking on an NPC to be a pretty major exploit, since it is a valuable reward with no risk at all.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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My post was written with the global account limit in mind. I can only trade X recipes in a day. Period. Well, I'd be able to get the merits for the X recipes every day for a really freaking long time due to how many tickets I have saved up across several characters (I kept having to switch characters cause I couldn't spend the tickets fast enough!)
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Originally Posted by Quinch
Recipes. But since you can only cash in a limited number of recipes at the vendor, and that limit applies to the account, it's irrelevant how many characters you have.
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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Just throwing this out for discussion - what would be the good and bad sides to being able to trade a recipe to the merit vendor in exchange for a couple of merits - between one and three, depending on the rarity of the recipe? To prevent farming, there would be also a limit to how many recipes can be traded back per account per day.
Opinions? Clauses? Catches? Possible exploits?