I16: Super-Sidekicking Explained
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...The first of this is the fact that you lose access to powers, especially the most-recently earned ones, when you Exemplar down. We are looking into some sort of fix for this.... ...As for low level characters missing out on accelerated leveling speeds, we are increasing the rewards they earn from level 1 to 20 (about 20% across the board) so that every player can get through the lower levels faster, not just those that know the tricks... |
Exemplaring
I'm against Exemplared characters keeping all their powers. I think the Exemplar system works in a fine and fair manner now.
I see - in no way - the reasoning behind allowing a higher level blaster to unleash with a Nova on level 5 Hellions. It just isn't necessary and it makes now sense.
Please keep the Exemplaring system the way it is now in regards to powers. It makes sense though it may be a little confusing to some to begin with, they will learn to adjust to it.
The enemies in the game are static, they can't adjust to the fact that a level 1 has a level 50 build of powers.
Rush to 20
I'm against increasing the rewards for the first 40% of the game. (I'll probably have to cut-off xp gain to get an Atlas Bank job in Kings Row (aka a Raptor Pack))
It has been decreased before by increasing xp gain and reducing the effects of debt itself and the effects of debt through patrol-time.
Many players have argued that they can't really play until they are level 20 due to Stamina. I would rather see END reduced in the lower levels than to see the levels artificially forced again.
That's 40% of the game content that is already being rushed-by by many.
If you increase lower level character end-recovery then that resolves the main reason to rush to 20. (or is it just a rush to get a full cape? - it was a badge of honor. Rushing the levels to get it belittles the cape.)
So if End Recovery is taken care of then the rush is only to 14 for a travel power. I'm a Vet, so I can get them at level 6. I'm willing for everyone to have the ability to pick a travel power at level 6 if that can stop this rush to 14 (reduced from 20 by the improved end recovery).
So if End Recovery and Travel Powers are covered, there should no longer be a reason to rush. Getting to level 6 is not that hard to do.
If we keep this rush, then 40% of the content will pretty much be lost. Characters will not be able to complete arcs before they out-level them (can't really do it already in many cases without clamping xp gain). Atlas, Galaxy, Kings Row, the Hollows, Skyway City, Steel Canyon, and recently new and improved Faultline become waste lands.
I know that some will say that that has already become the case, but it is not true. I'll admit that I do tend to level to 5 and then go to Kings Row to run Police missions - this is primarily to get the flight pack. I do tend to enjoy Police missions more than running around zones because the missions are localized. I would really like to see the lower level contacts reworked to localize their arcs.
Conclusion :: So this is a fix for the MA with out fixing the MA?
I hope when super-sidekicking and increased mission settings go into effect, the impact of the MA exploit craze will be nullified.
I certainly hope that Custom Creature groups will be corrected to require having at least one type of minion, lt, and boss before being a valid group for a published mission.
If this is the case, then players will go back to running these lower level missions - I think some of them are the best in the game. I would hate to see this 40% of the game lost completely to new players that have not experienced them (adding badges to the end-arc AV missions on those lower level arcs would be a good thing as well).
Note I'm not picking on you here, I agree with the spirit of what you're saying, but there are other factors to consider:
Exemplaring
I'm against Exemplared characters keeping all their powers. I think the Exemplar system works in a fine and fair manner now. |
Team Leader: Hey, wanna join us for a team? I'm level 31, and I've got a mission.
Level 33 Tanker: Sure, sounds like fun. Oh, wait, you said you were level 31, right?
Team Leader: Yeah.
Level 33 Tanker: No way. I'll lose Unstoppable.
Team Leader: But it's just two levels. You'll get XP...
Level 33 Tanker: I'll lose Unstoppable. Sorry, not interested.
Under the current system, you could at least team unexemplared and use Unstoppable. With Super Sidekicking you have to either accept the exemplar, or quit the team and not share the XP with your teammates.
Hopefully we'll be able to keep a couple of level's worth of powers, but won't have Nova at level 1.
Rush to 20 I'm against increasing the rewards for the first 40% of the game. |

I'm not sure we really need 20% more XP to get to 20, but it doesn't really take that long to get to 20 anyway. I would be more concerned about getting the jet packs and so on that how much time it takes me.
Still here, even after all this time!

So it looks like 791 people are "For" Issue 16...
and 4.5 people are against it.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
Inside a mission, you SK/exemp to mission owner - outside to team leader with the star.
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oh ok, so they used excel... thats a different story! but now that there is MA... cant they just modify the way they make arcs to match the MA?
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P_P, what did you do to that last 1/2 a person?
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
'scuse me.
I've noticed that a lot of people think that you have to be on a big team to enjoy the game and reap good rewards. You don't. It's perfectly fine to have just two or three players. You can do 99.5% of the content that way -- including the AV missions (if you choose the challenge level properly AVs are scaled to EBs). "But I'll get less XP that way!" you cry. Well, maybe not. I've seen all too many team leaders spend 20 minutes trying to fill that last spot on the team -- through a variety of mapserver disconnects, bio breaks, boredom, SG emergencies, etc. You're getting zero xp/minute while you stand around waiting for a full team. Since pickup teams have huge attrition rates, you typically wind up wasting a lot of time filling the team again after each mission. (A competent pickup team leader will not waste your time -- he'll keep things moving no matter what -- but that's an exhausting job and leaders of such caliber are hard to come by. I know I don't have the patience for it.) Also, if you're playing with competent people that you know, you generally steamroll missions with no team wipes and other ugly surprises. Which means you can run at a higher challenge level and earn more XP. You can easily do twice as many missions an hour with a competent team of three or four regulars than you can with a pickup team you're trying to keep at eight. |
I do this on repp 3 or 5 depending on the team.
Xp flow is constant.. no waiting... no boredom. If you start a new toon like this you will be lvl 14 in 2 hours without ever using AE. Just playing the game as it should be played.
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Ok, my apologies if this been talked about or answered already (waah 40 pages).
But is this a _always on_ feature? I often get requests if i can help out the patron quests, as 50 i breeze through rather fast and easy so he/she can get the patron powers. But will i now always be set back to his/her level?
Also, in TF's, someone popping out of the exemp (lets say TF 40-45, we all 40/41 including exemped down folks) is only possible by quiting (lets say a 'ooooooh foook' moment, in that case 4 lvls make a difference), but he basicly quits the TF.
I do like the feature for TF's, being 38 and going for manticore (30-35 afaik?) leaves you only with inf but now also exp. Good good Also i hope you retain some powers, my perma granite nothing is worse then going exemped below 32. (although i have rock/crystal armor, i not really much of a tank then).
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
But is this a _always on_ feature? I often get requests if i can help out the patron quests, as 50 i breeze through rather fast and easy so he/she can get the patron powers. But will i now always be set back to his/her level?
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Here's the quote.
Now we are aware of a couple things that this system doesn’t do so well, and we are attempting to address most of them in the coming weeks. The first of this is the fact that you lose access to powers, especially the most-recently earned ones, when you Exemplar down. We are looking into some sort of fix for this.
Next is the fact that sometimes you just want to un-exemplar and kick some butt, especially when things look bad for the team. If you leave the team you will automatically start fighting at your superior level. This will enable you to save your team’s bacon at the cost of eating up any of the rewards they might have earned for those guys you defeat. (These changes are currently being tested in the Closed Beta for Issue 16, and may be changed/modified by the time they reach the Live servers) |
That being the case, the team drop is not a HORRIBLE work around. While the person you are helping will miss out on the AV experience, they will at least get credit for the mission complete and get their patron powers which, you seem to indicate, is the main thing they are after.
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EDIT: WOOHOO! My 100th post. Do I get a cookie or soemthing now?
- Garielle
Well lets say SS's, positron, respec trial, several missions we made it when someone dropped the SK. Sometimes you choose to be at the lowerside of the gap, so you have an escape incase it goes wrong. Its not always the 'final boss' or the mission goal, but groups in between.
Oh well, time to get more 50s, as that will be the place for PL'ing then (just spawn 54 mobs, you got gap 5 again).
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
Why not just make the Sidekick level selected at an NPC, just like the Difficulty setting? If you don't want everyone having access to PL'ing, then make the NPC accessible via a veteran's badge, like say at the 36 month mark have the NPC open up to set your SK level. That way only experienced players earn the right to PL.
example:
Yes, I would like to change my Sidekick level to:
-1 Normal
-2 Rough
-3 Difficult
-4 Nearly Impossible
-5 Power Level
*gasp* did I seriously just suggest that "Power Level" be a choice?!?! Why yes I did.
I fail to see why there is such an outcry against this practice. Why does it matter to player A that player B power leveled? One of the more common reasons I have heard is the so-called "PL Noob". I guess my characters lack the super vision required to tell the difference between a PL'd player without a clue, and someone who is just plain STUPID. Honestly, I fear Stupidity is far more rampant than PL'ing, and a whole lot less manageable.
I pay my money too, I should be able to have the gameplay that I want just like everyone else. You're against power leveling? Fine, DON"T DO IT. Leave it to the experts... I have played many characters up on my two accounts. I have done every story arc, every mission, every TF/SF/Trial. I really don't like playing a lowbie, nor am I alone in this. The mechanic currently exists that let's me avoid this. Let me play MY game, and you can play YOUR game.
Then there are the people who say, "With this, maybe the AE missions will be more story oriented, instead of all these farm missions". Well, I briefly waded into the pool of AE missions just to see... maybe 1 in 50 was actually worth my time... maybe. Yes, I know they are "rated" to help better arcs rise to the top... but you're idea of "good" does not always coincide with mine.... obviously... In actuality, I have seen very few missions in the AE that I would consider "PL Missions", mostly what I found were... well... dull, crappy stories lacking in originality and creativity.
Oh and for those of you that say, well just raise the mob levels to 54, then you get your 5 level gap... the 5 level gap was between the players, not the players and the mobs. It was in this that maximum xp can be gained with maximum speed. Making the mobs 4 levels above the person doing the killing... excuse me, "arresting with extreme force", makes it WAY more difficult to clear a mission and significantly slows down the XP per hour... and just to clue you in, that would be the "power" part of "power leveling"....
In turn Champions was the baby of Marvel and DC getting drunk and having a one nighter.
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@Nameless Hero, Insane Sword-wielding Video Game Hero - Also a character in CoH
Yukie Bikouchi, Halfway Lost, and others
In turn Champions was the baby of Marvel and DC getting drunk and having a one nighter.
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A man with Super human strength, enough to take down a building, or kill an army with the jawbone of a jackass? Or the child of a diety and mortal woman known for great feats of strength?
Even the little funny comics tended to tell a story about life, much like stories of Echo, Jason, Thor, etc.
I once heard someone say "there is no orriginal thought"
Why not just make the Sidekick level selected at an NPC, just like the Difficulty setting?
[snip] *gasp* did I seriously just suggest that "Power Level" be a choice?!?! Why yes I did. I fail to see why there is such an outcry against this practice. Why does it matter to player A that player B power leveled? |
I'm not part of the beta so I don't know how this all works in detail, but I'd be surprised if they will allow the kind of adjustable sidekicking you're proposing. That falls into the "something for nothing" camp that the devs seem to be against. What they're more likely to offer is adding options for harder enemies (a combo of higher level and greater numbers) than was possible in the past. That way everyone earns XP commensurate with facing a harder challenge.
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
Why not just make the Sidekick level selected at an NPC, just like the Difficulty setting? If you don't want everyone having access to PL'ing, then make the NPC accessible via a veteran's badge, like say at the 36 month mark have the NPC open up to set your SK level. That way only experienced players earn the right to PL.
example: Yes, I would like to change my Sidekick level to: -1 Normal -2 Rough -3 Difficult -4 Nearly Impossible -5 Power Level *gasp* did I seriously just suggest that "Power Level" be a choice?!?! Why yes I did. I fail to see why there is such an outcry against this practice. Why does it matter to player A that player B power leveled? One of the more common reasons I have heard is the so-called "PL Noob". I guess my characters lack the super vision required to tell the difference between a PL'd player without a clue, and someone who is just plain STUPID. Honestly, I fear Stupidity is far more rampant than PL'ing, and a whole lot less manageable. I pay my money too, I should be able to have the gameplay that I want just like everyone else. You're against power leveling? Fine, DON"T DO IT. Leave it to the experts... I have played many characters up on my two accounts. I have done every story arc, every mission, every TF/SF/Trial. I really don't like playing a lowbie, nor am I alone in this. The mechanic currently exists that let's me avoid this. Let me play MY game, and you can play YOUR game. Then there are the people who say, "With this, maybe the AE missions will be more story oriented, instead of all these farm missions". Well, I briefly waded into the pool of AE missions just to see... maybe 1 in 50 was actually worth my time... maybe. Yes, I know they are "rated" to help better arcs rise to the top... but you're idea of "good" does not always coincide with mine.... obviously... In actuality, I have seen very few missions in the AE that I would consider "PL Missions", mostly what I found were... well... dull, crappy stories lacking in originality and creativity. Oh and for those of you that say, well just raise the mob levels to 54, then you get your 5 level gap... the 5 level gap was between the players, not the players and the mobs. It was in this that maximum xp can be gained with maximum speed. Making the mobs 4 levels above the person doing the killing... excuse me, "arresting with extreme force", makes it WAY more difficult to clear a mission and significantly slows down the XP per hour... and just to clue you in, that would be the "power" part of "power leveling".... |
------------------------------------------------------------ Stealth is your ally -------------------------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------------------------- Trust no one ------------------------------------------------------------------
<QR>
Sorry for not reading all forty pages. I have taken a break beta testing a game. I do not want to talk about it in the forums because I am afraid it may be against the rules. I need to ask some questions.
Let's say you have the following. Unless things have changed a well built Fire/Kin controller could easily defeat enemies spawned for a large team. A level 50 Fire/Kin controller, also the Fire/Kin can handle the mission for a team of eight. Next the level 50 gets 7 level 1 sk'ds them. Since they can be anywhere they could stay at Atlas Park and gain xp.
Now when the Fire/Kin defeats the enemies does the level one get xp equal to being a level 49? Or do they get xp equal to defeating level one enemies? If the first question anwer is yes then pro power leveling companies will love this new feature. I mean a pro powerleveler will be able to get 7 players to cap quickly intead of only one.
Ebony Fists: Level 50 DM/Regen Scrapper, Gloom Piston Robotics/Dark mastermind level 34, QueenFireMare: Level 34 Fire blaster (pure fire),
<QR>
Sorry for not reading all forty pages. I have taken a break beta testing a game. I do not want to talk about it in the forums because I am afraid it may be against the rules. I need to ask some questions. Let's say you have the following. Unless things have changed a well built Fire/Kin controller could easily defeat enemies spawned for a large team. A level 50 Fire/Kin controller, also the Fire/Kin can handle the mission for a team of eight. Next the level 50 gets 7 level 1 sk'ds them. Since they can be anywhere they could stay at Atlas Park and gain xp. Now when the Fire/Kin defeats the enemies does the level one get xp equal to being a level 49? Or do they get xp equal to defeating level one enemies? If the first question anwer is yes then pro power leveling companies will love this new feature. I mean a pro powerleveler will be able to get 7 players to cap quickly intead of only one. |
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
Xp flow is constant.. no waiting... no boredom. If you start a new toon like this you will be lvl 14 in 2 hours without ever using AE. Just playing the game as it should be played.
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Yes, because using the AE to level was never intended. And any XP gained there must be some kind of horrible exploit and an affront to the gods above.
Next time I am kind of a lot loss for what to do when I log in, I'll make sure I send you a tell so you can tell me how I should be playing.

If the Fire/Kin is fighting level 52s and the fillers are SKd to 49 then they will get xp as if fighting level 4 enemies.
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Thank you that is what I wanted to know. So then it is good to know one player will not be able to pl an entire team. Great job Paragon Studios.
Ebony Fists: Level 50 DM/Regen Scrapper, Gloom Piston Robotics/Dark mastermind level 34, QueenFireMare: Level 34 Fire blaster (pure fire),
If the Fire/Kin is fighting level 52s and the fillers are SKd to 49 then they will get xp as if fighting level 4 enemies.
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The team xp share bug at level 1 is, level 1 toons didn't (and still might not) get xp for someone else's kill, even when SK'd. I learned this the hard way on a sewer team once.
Like I said, the heart of the answer is definatly correct. you always earn XP based off your security level vs. the differance between your combat level and the mob being killed, multiplied by a percentage based off team size, possibly weighted by the differential between your combat level and the combat level of the other people in the team, as long as your combat level is within 5 levels of the person doing the killing (and above 1 if that bug is not fixed).
Simply put the devs could make it so every level takes the exact same xp, and all xp is gien out based off the differential, and leveling would be uniform. As it stands they use an exponential formula to determine XPTNL and a lesser formula for XP Gain per Kill, so that later levels take longer. (tho they could standardise xp per kill, and just have TNL go up but meh, INF is directly based off xp gain, so they would have to totally revamp that equasion, and I would rather have new features)
Another way of looking at it is with an equasion. SL=Security level (or base level), CL=combat level, ML=the Mob's Level, TSB=Team Size Bonus,PK=Person killing
XP is based on: ((ML-CL)->Lookup on SL table)*(TSB)*(IF(|PK-CL|<=5)
Let's say you have the following. Unless things have changed a well built Fire/Kin controller could easily defeat enemies spawned for a large team. A level 50 Fire/Kin controller, also the Fire/Kin can handle the mission for a team of eight. Next the level 50 gets 7 level 1 sk'ds them. Since they can be anywhere they could stay at Atlas Park and gain xp.
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Can they door sit? Sure. But they still have be in the mish/zone.
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--...faceplanting like a Defender pulling an AV (Nalrok_AthZim)
oh ok, so they used excel... thats a different story! but now that there is MA... cant they just modify the way they make arcs to match the MA?
http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/n...stumes%202011/