I16: Super-Sidekicking Explained
By
a tame rabbit,
Posted on: 2009-08-12 10:06 in Developers' Corner
Im so frigging excited by all this news about i16, My head going asplode!
Im giggling madly in my chair, it freaked me out! 
I seriously was about to walk away from the game, dead serious. This..I can't even form words for it right now... 
JJ
I delete more 50s, then you'll ever have.
http://www.pandora.com/people/jjdemon
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Originally Posted by Perfect_Pain
PowerLeveling and Farming are completely seperate actually.
Powerleveling has people on a team... and they want EXP. Farming is you SOLO and there is NO exp. Anything else is just teaming. |
No.
Solo farming is solo farming.
Farming does not have to be solo.
Is a Heal Farm just teaming?
Is an Illusion farm just teaming?
Your definition is too limited.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
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From the mention of getting a warning, sounds like it's when the mission is set.
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Originally Posted by Zombie_Man
So, if a level50 has the star, everyone will be SSK'd to 50 (i.e., 49 if they weren't already 50). If the leader chooses the mission of a level 10 member of the team, then they all exemp/sk to 10. When that happens, Posi didn't say, hopefully only when they enter the mission.
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Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
Overall I think this is amazing. Great stuff. The only problem I see was mentioned by Posi, but no details were given about the solutions being considered.
Mainly some badges are going to be a lot harder to get, which means some accolades are going to be harder to get. You don't defeat 1000 PPD along the way to 50 unless you level off of nothing but newspapers and mayhems. You only get that badge by grinding it out.
Currently I 2-box all my lowbies mayhems with a higher level toon and nuke all the PPD from orbit, clearing the whole map. It takes *a lot* of mayhems done this way to get that badge. When these changes go in place I will no longer be able to do this. If I want to get that accolade before level 50, so I can actually enjoy it on my way up, I'll be skipping a lot of regular content to farm PPD, or turning off XP while I farm PPD.
Farming Infernal's summoned demons for Hero Slayer will be harder now. It looks like the best way will be to get the mission at 30, then hold the mission and level that character to 50.
So yes, please do look at the requirements for some of the badges, especially accolade requirements. Hero Slayer and Outlaw I mentioned already. Most of the others can be had through outdoor hunting, which is fine, but while you're at it maybe think about some of those too? 200 Marcone bosses still takes a while even if you can get a full team interested. Trying to get it solo in one sitting is RSI waiting to happen.
If the damage and debt badge requirements were lowered by one tier, they might actually be achievable through normal play.
I hope we can get some more information on this. In the meantime just in case I'll be nuking PPD and demons.
People, about Badges, seriously.
What do you think we have Oro for? Its more then a inter-dimensional Train Station. 
You can flashback some stuff & work on badges there too.
JJ
I delete more 50s, then you'll ever have.
http://www.pandora.com/people/jjdemon
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Depends on what's being farmed. Sometimes the more people, the better. Like when you're going after defeat badges.|
Originally Posted by Perfect_Pain
If other people are there, they are defeating the purpose of farming.
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| They take your purples, your salvage, your other recipes of value. |
Technically, PLing can be farming (you're farming XP), which is why I think some people have started using "PLing" and "farming" interchangeably (but they really shouldn't).
The Cape Radio: You're not super until you put on the Cape!
DJ Enigma's Puzzle Factory: Co* Parody Commercials
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Any chance this option will be combined with the "no xp" option, so that a player can use a single setting to choose either xp or boosted inf? A player either wants to gain XP or doesn't, regardless of whether he's currently exemplaring or not.|
Originally Posted by Positron
... we are even changing the way exemplaring works so that you get XP while you are fighting at a lower level. There will be an option of having the “old way” of exemplaring, and earning extra Inf. instead, for those players who want to earn some more Inf. instead of levels.
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| With the ability to bridge removed, we should see an end to those Broadcasts, in addition to /tells to characters who are in the right level range for being a bridge. |
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| ... we’ve added new features to the in-game Email system to either shut it off entirely, or only receive emails from people on your friends list and/or people in your Supergroup. |
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My sentiments exactly,I haven't used the"friends" list in 4 years,except in the hive in order to follow the raid leader. No, you need to fix this so it is global friends,not server friends.|
Originally Posted by Miuramir
In general, a great announcement. But I'd like to put in my voice that it should be (or at least have the option for) based on Global Friends.
Character friends list seems to be a bit of an archaic throwback; I don't think I even *have* any on any of my characters. Either I, the human player, am a friend of the person on the other end of the global, or I'm not. If I am, it shouldn't matter in the slightest what character, server, faction, instance, superteam, or hairstyle they or I are currently playing as far as communications are concerned. |
Now,all you need to do is make it so we can e-mail "items"(influence,recipes,) to my alts,I will be a happy hero
I believe our children are our future and I reflect on the lessons and values we taught them.
I believe the world has many real Villains,what we need are more Heroes.
*May you all be a hero in someone's life.*
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Lifetime subs for games worry me. That makes it sound like they just want a quick infusion of cash before folding.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
For the health of this game I'm willing to accept -never- having a lifetime sub offer for it. *shrugs*
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CO offering such is another reason I am not that curious about CO.
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Originally Posted by pohsyb
Nearly everything in the options window can be changed via the option_set and option_toggle slash command, /option_list will give you a list of the option names.
Also, the options have been re-organized a bit and confusing logic tests have been cleaned up. |
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Originally Posted by Genesis_Man
There have been a couple of changes to the way TFs are set up (like the team not automatically disbanding after the TF finishes). I know Poshyb talked about experimenting with "lighter" or "relaxed" TF rules (in i14 beta), one example of which was inviting people to the TF after it had been started (the way AE arcs are set up now).
Just thought that maybe the new super-sidekicking system might bring with it another "relaxed" rule for TFs. I know the STs I've run that rely almost entirely on TF content would LOVE that. |
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Originally Posted by Ice_Ember
Does this mean you can walk a level one villain and a level one hero to the Rikti War Zone as long as they are on a team with a 35+ leader?
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Originally Posted by GoldenDestroyer
We -wished- we had a leash.
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Originally Posted by Calash
you being a radioactive genius trapped in a body armor of your own design.
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Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
I'm really liking this, now to wait and see how all of this is going to work.
So, when is i16 going Open Beta?
Wow.... There are a lot of really good ideas just randomly popping up. Issue 16 just might restore my faith in this game. Unfortunately, it won't restore my wallet. Unless you're willing to offer me a job. lol.
I haven't read all of this massive thread, so my apologies if this has already been brought up, but my biggest issue with auto-exemping is not so much the loss of high-level powers for a character exemped many levels lower. This happens already, because without it, the high-level character would be FAR too powerful for the low-level team. I'm guessing the reason it's considered a problem now is that exemping is expected to become more common, but anyway...
The problem I have is the loss of that brand new power you just got. It's levelling up, and not being able to select a new power until the team leader levels too...even if you are only one level above the mission holder. I would suggest limiting auto-exemplar to people two or more levels above the mission holder, just to maintain the "yay, new power!" aspect of levelling up.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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Umm no it doesent! its fun from level 1 - 49! Stamina is not a requirement! Neither are SOs with IOs|
Originally Posted by Perfect_Pain
Why in the heck should it take days to get to level 20?
The game doesnt start to get enormously fun until lvl 32 when you have lots of powers. |
level 1 - 20 in hours 5 years ago... umm no i was here and i was playing like 10 hours aday unless you was pling i dont see you doing it in mere hours
Eva, I'm not sure if it works that way - for example, when being exemplared in AE {running with lowibies who exemplar me so I don't wonk up the mission level}, I gain my new power as soon as my aspirant reaches the appropriate level, which is usually inside the mission - they don't need to train for me to reclaim my power.
umm wait does this mean you can start tfs without getting fillers too i'd like to solo sstf3!
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1. You are correct in that it is my opinion. However, you'll find that most agree with me. Before 22, the few enhancement slots that you do have are filled with subpar enhancements because you can't slot SOs yet (with a few exceptions). Villains have some decent low-level arcs, while heroes are generally forced to slog through the "old stuff" (arcs full of useless filler defeat-all and delivery missions spanning multiple large zones, often before they have a decent travel power).|
Originally Posted by Acroyear2
You writing that the first 20 Levels of the game suck is your opinion. I don't have Stamina on a single one of my characters - If you are a good enough player you can make due without it. And your statement that people were leveling characters from 0-50 in less than an hour during Double XP Weekend is ridiculous; it's not possible to level that fast (by the way, there is no Level 0 in the game).
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2. My characters are built to run several toggles and always being doing something, whether that is buffing, healing, or dealing damage. Even with fully-slotted Stamina I need expensive set IO bonuses to keep from having to pack along blues. The only characters I have that do not have Stamina are my Warshade (Stygian Circle), Spines/Regen Scrapper (no room for a 5th power pool), Fire/Psi Dom (3-second downtime on Drain Psyche and 75 seconds between Domination recharges), and my various PvP Stalkers (whose sole purpose is to AS someone after they've been KBd, then go back into hide until it's time to do it again). If you doubt my playing ability because of my reliance on the "Stamina crutch," I'd be happy to arrange some friendly in-game competitions.
3. You attack the validity of my assertion with an aside comment about how there is no level zero, yet you simply dismiss my statement with "it's not possible." I wouldn't say it was possible if it hadn't seen it myself. I wasn't lucky enough to get one of those sub-1-hour 50s but I know even before double XP weekend, there were reports of one or two of them going around. Exploitative? Perhaps. Did it happen? Most definitely.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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They are working on being able to use all your powers even when exemplared.
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Originally Posted by EvaDestruction
I haven't read all of this massive thread, so my apologies if this has already been brought up, but my biggest issue with auto-exemping is not so much the loss of high-level powers for a character exemped many levels lower. This happens already, because without it, the high-level character would be FAR too powerful for the low-level team. I'm guessing the reason it's considered a problem now is that exemping is expected to become more common, but anyway...
The problem I have is the loss of that brand new power you just got. It's levelling up, and not being able to select a new power until the team leader levels too...even if you are only one level above the mission holder. I would suggest limiting auto-exemplar to people two or more levels above the mission holder, just to maintain the "yay, new power!" aspect of levelling up. |
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
I find this excellent news in that my low level Heroes can now get to Fire base zulu and buy jet packs so they can fly.. Finally.
...err wait.. what about teams split between zones? Example: you've just exited a completed mish and the leader is in a different zone. What will happen to the lowbies then? Will they still be auto leveled to the leaders level while in different zones?
Player on Infinity server
Overlord of "The Fiend Army"
39 Level 50 Toons
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I'm really hoping they change this - to allow lowbies to get the Vanguard Badge, just so we can get Vanguard Merits during Rikti Invasions.|
Originally Posted by Zombie_Man
When the Mission Transporter allowed access to the RWZ (that ability is currently removed on Live) lowbies were still barred from joining the LGTF and they weren't high enough level to start the Levantera arc. And even if they were SK'd into the Levatera arc, it didn't allow them to get the Vanguard badge (which lets one get the Vanguard Merits) since only the mission holder got the badge.
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Just like characters who have the Member of Vanguard Badge do, during the Zone Invasions - it REALLY sucks - knowing that I'm missing out on these Merits everyone else is getting.
All because I'm not level 35 yet and haven't run that mission - or as it seems even lowbie alts will be able to run it - but not get the badge?
This is often intentional, for a variety of possible reasons... like being a Completion-ist, Badger, Alt-aholic, etc.
Like for instance... not wanting to have ALL my recipe drops be at lvl 35+ !
Speaking of which, how will this change to side-kicking/exemp'ing effect drops? (Specifically - Recipe drops??)
You also mentioned losing access to powers (which would suck - but that's how it works atm anyway right?) Also, what effect will this have on slots, and the effects of exemp'ing on Enhancements' Values?
If you're changing the effects of Side-Kicking - this would be the time to do something about some of this stuff.
Example, there tends to be plenty of lvl 50 recipes at the markets - but not so at the lower levels. And having to "park a character" at a certain level to get lower level recipes IS an option - but its a kinda sad way to have to work around the way recipes drop at your (afiak) your security level - VS. the level you actually want them at...
Unless you go with Purple IO's.
Note: I'm only talking about the effect (quoted from paragon wiki) "their set bonuses are available at all levels even when exemplaring to a level where the power the set is placed into is unavailable, unlike other sets."
Not the part about, "They provide stronger enhancement bonuses and stronger set bonuses than normal, under the heading of Superior."
I honestly don't care about that part, It's the "not losing their effects while exemp'ing" that I'm concerned/talking about - Are all IO's going to gain this ability/effect?
Please?Anywho, I was just thinking it would be nice to be able to build up Vanguard Merits to get the Vanguard Storage Sack, and the costume options... I mean those characters ARE indeed fighting off the Rikti Attacks, all over the various lower-level Zones, it seems wrong that their efforts are seemingly being ignored.
(Story wise at the very least and Reward=Vanguard Merit-wise as well.)
I can kinda see wanting to prevent lowbies from crafting the Vanguard Heavy Power Core: Temp Power. But if that's what they want to spend their V.Merits on *shrug* it's only summon-able once (for 250 merits), and it'll die (or whatever) relatively fast.
I'd think most players would rather spend them on something more tangible/permanent like the Costume Options & Storage Sack.
Having to choose between doing sub-Level 35 content and getting sub-level 35-50 recipes, vs. getting V.Merits & the Vanguard Storage Sack and only level 35+ recipes, well... (Uhm, how should I put this?) Well frankly, it 'blows chunks through a straw'.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
City of Heroes didn't fail, City of Heroes was killed. If a 747 dropped on your house, you'd say you were killed, not you failed to find a safer dwelling.
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This was one of my first thoughts as well... |
Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards
Hey I just realized something: With the abolition of the level restrictions for hazard zones, this means that the ability to get a jetpack temp power at level 1 is no longer exclusive to Villains. Rejoice! You can go to the Shadow Shard at level 1 and procure a jetpack of your very own soon!
This is huge for the folks on the Hero side that want to put off getting a travel power or forgo it altogether! |
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
City of Heroes didn't fail, City of Heroes was killed. If a 747 dropped on your house, you'd say you were killed, not you failed to find a safer dwelling.
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GONE are the days of Peregrine Island SPAM! Yeah!
to 
TO THE END!Villains are those who dedicate their lives to causing mayhem. Villians are people from the planet Villia!
This is great news.
Farming for badges? No, you are just badging. Farming is done with only one person and their extra accounts. "mules"
Are you able to alter the email blocking/allow feature to include Global friends? I can't speak for everyone, but I think the Global Friends list is much more useful.
Wickedly awesome update, Positron. Now that's something I can stand behind.
Raid Leader of Task Force Vendetta "Steel 70", who defeated the first nine Drop Ships in the Second Rikti War.
70 Heroes, 9 Drop Ships, 7 Minutes. The Aliens never knew what hit them.
Now soloing: GM-Class enemy Adamaster, with a Tanker!
Okay, can someone run this scenario for me?
Most of the time I run with XP off, because lately I've been on a content kick and have been running every single available mission and thus don't want to outlevel anything I haven't done yet. Now, on marathon teams that means that sooner or later {especially in low levels where dings flow like water} my teammates are going to outlevel me. Previously I could mitigate that with upping the rep to compensate for levels above me, but how will the super-SK system affect that now?