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Resists work 100% of the time, defense doesn't.
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Originally Posted by SinergyX_EU
Simple question: Why is 'high' defense so easy obtainable through IO's and sets, where resist is basicly impossible to get?
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Most specialist resist sets will hit the cap on their chosen resistance, Elec caps Elec resistance, Invuln, with the addition of Tough and one of the passive resists in the set, caps S/L resistance and so on. Willpower tankers get pretty close to the S/L cap but also have defense and high regen to back it up.
| Why cant this be done on resistbase then?The only 2 set i know that can reach cap (i equal this to softcap defense) resist is fire, fire resistance, and granite (stoneskin) on SL. This include any possible way of using IO sets. |
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This is, I believe, the essence of it. I play by this tennet in-game, too, I.E. If I'm on low health on a resistance based character, I'll take a chance and try to finish the Boss I'm soloing, however if I'm on low health on a defence based character, I'll hit a green inspiration rather than take the chance.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Resists work 100% of the time, defense doesn't.
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This being said, Soft-Cap Defence is indeed fairly easily achievable nowadays, given that you have some inf floating about. However, I have found that without Soft-Cap, completely defence based sets such as SR and Ice Armour (Ice armour to a lesser extent because of all the slows) are distincly average in terms of survivability. This is the problem with Defence IMO - it's either rather overpowered or distinctly average, with no happy medium of it just being "good".
How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four; calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.
I think you answered your own question. Blasters, controllers, etc can soft-cap or come close to soft-capped defenses. Do you really want people to be able to slot heavily for both defense and resist?
my lil RWZ Challenge vid
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How about defense OR resist? Put the +resist bonuses into sets that would compete for slot space with +defense ones. The 6th slot on melee or ranged damage, for example, or create a new universal power set that requires 4 slots to pick up some nice resistances.|
Originally Posted by Organica
I think you answered your own question. Blasters, controllers, etc can soft-cap or come close to soft-capped defenses. Do you really want people to be able to slot heavily for both defense and resist?
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More possible builds is always a good thing, and a little foresight goes a long way towards later balancing.
119088 - Outcasts Overcharged. Heroic.
And before any dev gets any funny ideas: No, do NOT nerf the Defense bonuses to compensate for lack of Resist bonuses. Buff the Resist bonuses.
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Cant they do already? All you need is either 2 sonics or sonic/thermal and u have cap resist.|
Originally Posted by Organica
I think you answered your own question. Blasters, controllers, etc can soft-cap or come close to soft-capped defenses. Do you really want people to be able to slot heavily for both defense and resist?
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But why is it sooo easy to get huge defense, but its plain impossible to even get 15% extra resist on 1 (!!) type? You even get more damage bonus from sets then resist.
From the high range IO's, there is only a hand full of setbonus that actualy give resist, but often so little or in such 'weird' power-abilities (taunt, def-debuff etc), without gimping your character its kinda impossible.
Is it really that gamebreaking to make it possible to give people say 10-15% resist?
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I agree with this notion. The resists should be valued equal with defense values rather than twice as heavy (re: 1% res should be equivalent to 1% def in set bonuses whereas now they're 1% res is equivalent to 2% def).|
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
And before any dev gets any funny ideas: No, do NOT nerf the Defense bonuses to compensate for lack of Resist bonuses. Buff the Resist bonuses.
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They also need to address the fact that, while defense bonuses are rather prolific (which is one of the reasons why slotting for defense is more popular than slotting for resist), resistance bonuses are rather rare and, at the same time, affect fewer values. There are a number of single and paired resistances that should be paired, similar to how positionals and typed based defenses are paired together. All of the single resist bonuses should be pair with their compatriot type (s/l, f/c, n/e, p/t) and all of the paired resists bonuses should have either 1 or 2 other bonuses at half the value, whether it progress circularly (s/l paired with f/c which is paired with n/e which is paired with p/t which is paired with s/l) or has specifically chosen pairs (s/l with p/t and f/c with n/e).
These changes might actually make getting resistance worth it somewhat. The fact that it's only half as effective as the defense (because that's how defense and resistance operate on average) should be enough of a reason to balance it out. As it stands now, there's no point in getting the resists whatsoever even if you've already got some resists to stack them up with because the values are so pitiful.
again, resists work 100% of the time and are entirely predictable.
from a designer standpoint, that makes them better than defense and makes them an unlikely candidate for a buff.
A blaster with tremendous defense can be defeated by one lucky hit.
A blaster with tremendous resistance cannot.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
I have a mixed opinion about the subject.
On one hand, I think having high defense is more acceptable than defense because, as mentioned, defense isn't completely reliable. It's also more likely that mobs will have ways to bypass the defense since there are more ways to cut through def than res (def debuffs, tohit buffs, autohit powers).
On the other hand, due to the way def mechanics work, def allows all ATs to attain much higher survivability than possible with res. (This is because the def soft cap is 90% mitigaiton whereas the most common res cap is 75%.)
I think the current system is whacked with the size and availability of +def (BoZephyr, wtf), and adding even more mitigation (this time in the form of +res) could be dangerous. I'm positive there are builds out there that would attain a large amount +def and +res. So while it sucks for sets that would really enjoy +res bonuses (Fire and Elec Armor, for example), I'm also extremely leery of the consequences.
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This was my initial arguement during the defense/hit change.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
A blaster with tremendous defense can be defeated by one lucky hit.
A blaster with tremendous resistance cannot. |
Yet, each toon with APP/EPP and tough can already reach a high considerable ammount of resistance on a main and secondair element. Together with 2 sets in the game that provide a huge boost to resinstance (sonic, thermal). These are provided _after_ their softcap defense. Both defense and resist have always been part of this game, i dont mind these being depending on a few sets in the game (FF/ice vs therm/sonic). Its the IO part where it just doesnt make sence.
Added, all AT have resistance cap. Only tank and brute have 90%, khelds 80 and rest 75%. Again this doesnt match against the 2:1 ratio of defense versus resist (incase only tanker, being 45% versus 90%). 'unlucky' shots are imho part of the defense system, just like resist will _always_ (5% floor excluded) be hit by mez, a debuff or sortlike, in those terms resist already has a penalty. (see Tsoo EM mobs).
I'm not asking for a softcap (well, hardcap) resist blaster, i'm asking for logical explenation why resist is basicly non-exsisting in IO-sets. Why is there a unique 3% defense, but no resist counterside?
Nobody can convince me that 10-15% resist is that gamebreaking it totaly fooks up the whole game engine and its balance. Because that is howmuch defense you can get rather easy from IO sets (as long u got the bucks), and even if i had qadrilionzillion influence, i will never be able to do the same resist-wise.
So baseline again: What happened to the 2:1 ratio in this game regarding defense versus resist?
(in terms of availability, cap and overall AT balance).
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I dont know really where to put this topic, so i just put it here then
Just before the forums were merged, i already made a topic about this. And as i'm more active on the US servers now, i noticed more and more people.. well farmers, sharing the same thing.
Defense.
Simple question: Why is 'high' defense so easy obtainable through IO's and sets, where resist is basicly impossible to get?
The hype since AE and IO's, softcap. Even blasters, trollers and corrupters run around with nearly softcap defense while hardly affecting their efficiency of their build. They can compete in survivability with a class that rely on his defenses, tankers, or in some cases even outperform if the tanker has no sets at all. True, some may have spend a huge forture to even reaching this, but by the plain fact.. its possible.
Long long time ago, when the new hit vs defense system kicked in i was pretty concerned about defense. True, back then only Ice was native defense based and they had a rough time in the old system. So eventualy, a redname (i think it was bridger) told me that 10% resist equals 5% defence. By the 50% hit, 5% floor, 90% cap resist, it was pretty true.
So here we are, years later and the IO sets that provide additional melee, SL or Ranged defense go skyrocket in prices, if you want to be topnotch, you take this stuff.
But i still prefer resist, i rather see numbers then rolling dices and hoping they wont hit me. If i can reach cap, i will try to do so, on my tankers basicly with tough. But in some cases i lack a bitty, or i just can fit punch/tough in my way to tight build so i need other options. IO's, sets or whatever. But if i look at all the sets, what is wrong here?
Even if i go frankenslot every power i have (even picking 10-30sets) i might be able to increase my SL resist by at max 10%, and that is SL alone!
Supportwise cant be an issue, FF/ice one side, sonic/thermal on the other side. Balanswise? Well hitting cap on SL resist wont help you against fire or ice damage, unlike melee/ranged defense will basicly block everything. Yes i know! defense debuffs ingame. Yes, a trashload of mobs in the game (mostly lethal) have defense debuff abilities, making your defense basicly useless. Resist with inhereted resistance will hardly suffer. (i will not mention PVroflmaoP, that is gimped). But with AE, and farmers, they pick their own mobs, their own powers, their own easy mode. Why cant this be done on resistbase then?The only 2 set i know that can reach cap (i equal this to softcap defense) resist is fire, fire resistance, and granite (stoneskin) on SL. This include any possible way of using IO sets. But, defense has a huge advantage over resist. Debuffs, such as mezz or slow/acc/whatever, 99% has to hit in order to debuff. But seeing the huge difference in IO sets, i dont think that is enough eh?
The epic shields! Well, partly. Again they only provide resist against a few elementals (SL +1), even with tough added you still are 0% resist against everything else.
So i ask the devs, or whoever, what happened to the old 2:1 ratio of resist/defense, in combination with IO's and sets? Why can i boost out my blaster with basicly cap melee and ranged defense, but in not a million years i can even reach 30% resist all on him.
Or am i just missing something here, or just give up the original 2:1 and jump the bandwagon and go softcapdef like everyone else?
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
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